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bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

You’re, not you, not your, not yor. This is grade school stuff even Jethro knew. This is MERICA, learn the language or GET OUT! 😂

Only to you, sir, and you deserve every bit of smug arrogance, every instance of derision and ridicule. It’s impossible to not seem elitist when presented with your ignorant, uneducated, aggressive, faux superior douchebaggieness and hatefulness. I am not special. I’m not a beautiful and unique snowflake. I’m the same decaying organic matter as everything else, but I’m not a steaming pile of toxic shit like yourself.

I walk around with a smile on my face and puppy kisses on top of that smile. All my bile is reserved for you and criminal cops. You admitted once that you go to bed irate and seething more often than not, I don’t.

Only you get the answer for everything, because you, with no answers or facts, are the biggest natural constant victim I’ve ever known besides Trump. I’m happy to research and learn how idiotically ignorant every position you take is, it prepares me for other Trumpists I know who aren’t learning deficient, just duped. You are a lost cause.

I’m no victim. Nearly every right wing attack I defend against is NOT against myself, I’m an educated upper middle class straight white male property owner with no debt, I’m exactly who your party thinks it wants in charge. D’oh!

Acab? Again, I don’t speak conspiracy nutjob, can you try English?

BLM is good, they triggered a long overdue police reform that’s finally slowly bringing consequences back to murderous criminal police actions. It’s disgusting they had to exist and go to such extremes to get police reform, but clearly it wouldn’t have happened without them. Even if you dishonestly blame all the damage done by Trump’s boogaloo boys and proud boys to BLM, <$200 million is cheap for real police reform, and less than 1/2 the cost of Jan 6 and the extra security required immediately afterwards.
Trump is bad, he destroyed the economy to a negative gdp, exploded unemployment, eroded our international standing, divided the country more than any issue, destroyed our national credit, damaged our election system badly and tried to subvert it, tried a violent coup and failed, stole classified nuclear secrets and showed them to anyone and left them in public ballrooms, hallways, and bathrooms, was convicted of sex abuse, and his idiotic racist policies led to well over a million unnecessary American deaths and 3 times that in severely disabled survivors while countries with intelligent leadership avoided nearly all covid (NZ, Australia, etc).

Grooming is good, it makes one presentable, less stinky, and prevents disease. You should try it, you must smell disgusting and look as disheveled as you speak.

I am against pedophiles training children for sex, but that’s your party over and over and over and over and over. You have one accused leftist mayor to point to, I have >10000 priests, >100 politicians, Epstein, Trump, and your alma mater Penn State to point at as disgusting criminal sex abusers who’ve been caught, prosecuted, and convicted on the right.

Lol…sick man! 😂 from you, a compliment.

It’s guaranteed you sucked that tit more than myself, friendo. I’ve never taken a handout, or loan from the government, I’ve been a property owner for near 3 decades without ever having debt, not even credit card or home loan debt. I paid for school in cash, and my house. I give away more than most, and take nothing…and I consistently overpay my taxes.

I bet you even tried to get an unsecured Trump ppp loan you didn’t have to repay like so many socialist righties…like MTG, Boebert, and every other red politician did to the tune of millions, I know you’re just loving that socialist handout and all the corporate socialism Trump practiced, and are thanking Trump for not allowing any vetting or loan securities by design. Every accusation is an admission, and the socialist accusation is one of the biggest instances. If government “handouts” were cut off tomorrow, red states would be bankrupt by Sunday, conservative businesses would fail, and conservatives would default on their massive debts at rates never imagined. I know, in your total ignorance, you disagree and see no need to look into that claim, you just KNOW it can’t be true… Gutfeld told you liberals are the takers. 🤦‍♂️

You’re a sick, stupid man from a disgustingly sick sexually abusive school made sicker and stupider by the absolute insanity and dishonesty of Trumpism, whining and sniveling about how unfair it is without Trump as dictator.

How you like your Penn State teacher Themis Matsoukas getting busted for having sex with his dog in public and recording it, not his first public sex crime? You took his class, didn’t you…Sandusky too I bet, they’re your kind of people. Did you take wrestling with Gym Jordan?

PS- how are those “whistleblower” committees going? Too bad every whistleblower turned out to be fake, the evidence nonexistent, those audio tapes a fantasy, the bank records ethereal, and the accusation so incredibly stupid and backwards it makes you a disgraceful laughing stock once again. Sucker. 😂

D’oh! Twump lost another case, this time his attempt to remove his cases from New York State court to a federal court under a Trump judge, but his inept lawyers provided no evidence and only one witness that had no material information about the case and lost the appeal/motion. Can you remember the last time Trump’s team was successful in court? I can’t..certainly not after he was tossed out of office (except the one activist judge that was reversed and reprimanded).

Bonus- the merger deal for Toth Senchal may be dead because members of the board of the SPAC are indicted/arrested for insider trading using confidential information surrounding the merger itself. Another Trump company circling the drain because of corruption at the top.

bobknight33 said:

You a perfect example of the elitist. Smug and arrogant.
You walk around with a chip on your shoulder and and and elitist answer for everything. You are a professional victim.

You walk in these ideas.
ACAB
BLM is good
Trump is bad
Grooming is ok.


Your a sick man sucking the tit of liberalism.

TRUST

newtboy says...

The context isn’t missing. You just don’t like it.
He was bragging and defending himself against accusations that he wanted to invade Iran by showing the secret plans and saying "Well, with Milley -- uh, let me see that, I'll show you an example. He said that I wanted to attack Iran. Isn't that amazing? I have a big pile of papers, this thing just came up. Look. This was him. They presented me this -- this is off the record, but -- they presented me this. This was him. This was the Defense Department and him, We looked at some. This was him. This wasn't done by me, this was him. All sorts of stuff -- pages long, look. Wait a minute, let’s see here. I just found, isn’t that amazing? This totally wins my case, you know. Except it is like, highly confidential. Secret. This is secret information. Look, look at this. This was done by the military and given to me."
This recording is from summer 2021 when Trump spoke to a team who was researching a book written by Mark Meadows and some of his own staff, none of which had clearance. This is the same document he said he could have declassified but didn’t, so it’s still top secret. Look!
The transcript is part of the now public indictment. You won’t hear about it on right wing propaganda outlets, because it’s all unthinkably treasonous.
The photos are also from that indictment, and some are reported to show party goers posing with the boxes full of stolen classified documents (faces blurred to protect the innocent party goers).

Pretty hilarious the insane convoluted theories you’re willing to accept without a shred of evidence just because some random guy on the internet said it was true once, but when presented with a sworn indictment containing direct audio tape and testimonial evidence of Trump sharing what he admitted were highly classified state secrets with random people with no security clearance and evidence he stored classified state secrets in ball rooms he rented out with them on stage complete with photos you need more context. 🤦‍♂️

Edit: Be honest with yourself if you can…we know the truth you don’t have to say it….if the charges were against Biden with the same evidence you would be screaming for the firing squad, wouldn’t you. (I would just insist on a trial first)


bobknight33 said:

Totally missing context.

That being said If he actually let the other look at the doc contents then that could be a big problem.

For now this is just shock headlines for gullible people, like newtboy

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

No, bob. It’s not. Trump threatened America with death and destruction from his cult, a terroristic threat he’s followed through on before.
That is absolutely nothing like exaggerating a bit that the economy is slightly better than it actually is.
One is a terrorist threat, the other “puffery”.
Besides, you said you love Trump because he’s not a politician, right? Why does he only speak political BS speak then? Trump is every bad example of a politician rolled into one without any experience or qualifications of one.

That’s fake, and you know it’s fake or it would have existed and been brought out in 2018 (oh, they tried and it fell flat), and would have been his answer every year since (would have if it wasn’t so obviously coerced). By 2018 she had publicly admitted the encounter, and never denied it after that date. I bet you got that from Trump….yep, direct from Trump who even forges documents on camera sometimes. Only a clueless moron would believe something like that….from 2018! You’ve got to be kidding. So gullible. So idiotic. This is the stupidity your cult accepts as “evidence”. She was suing Trump over the near rape and confidentiality agreement in 2018…and you really think SHE wrote this DEFENSE OF TRUMP?!? Even if you convinced yourself of the idiotic, obviously false notion that she wrote it, do you really think he sat on it for 5 years?

Ahh yes, looked it up, old news. She was pressured by Trumps lawyer Cohen to sign this statement he wrote under threat he would “make her life miserable” with the full power of the president behind him, pretty certain he’s admitted as much years ago. At the time she said “This is the statement Cohen wrote,” she tweeted, referring to Michael Cohen, Trump’s former attorney, whom Trump previously acknowledged reimbursing for making the 2016 payment to Daniels. The signature doesn’t look like hers because she signed under threat so changed her signature to indicate duress. “It is old news from early 2018 before I came forward. I think it’s HYSTERICAL that tiny is trying to spin this as some kind of new information,” she wrote, with “tiny” being a derogatory reference to Trump.
Also note the letter denies a payoff, which we know for a fact happened. Proven fake letter.
Also, not under oath….remember, if it’s not under oath, absolutely nothing you say matters. Your rule….live with it.
Why even bring it up? Because you’re scared, that’s why…and can’t remember what happened yesterday much less 2018, so try to use discredited “evidence”…just like Trump lawyers. They lose every case.

If he wants to prove he wasn’t naked with her, show us the toadstool. If it doesn’t match her description (but older and smaller) we’ll see that. Tiny dick Don would definitely do that if it wouldn’t prove her right.

BUT ITS ALSO PURE RED HERRING- I suppose you don’t understand the case against Trump isn’t about the sex, it’s about HIDING the payoff. There’s no questions there, he’s admitted it and there’s a paper trail of the money, so he’s feeding you red herrings because he has no defense and will almost certainly be convicted of felonies he’s previously admitted to….hiding the payoffs by falsifying business records and not reporting the campaign contributions. What Cohen was already convicted of despite this “letter”.

Kinda hilarious that you extrapolate from Biden touching a woman’s shoulder in public to claiming he’s a repeat public rapist but despite 36 women claiming they were sexually assaulted, some raped, and multiple payoffs for sex, and Trump himself bragging about constantly sexually assaulting women, moving on his friend’s wives like a bitch, doing whatever he wants to women without asking, you believe the nonsense that he’s not a cheater. Melania doesn’t.


Every day you prove what an idiotic gullible cultist you are, making up or spreading lies for Trump. Your family has gone, haven’t they. I can’t imagine a rational person living with you.

Edit: Trump is planning a rally at Waco on the anniversary of Koresh….because he doesn’t want to be associated with terroristic anti government violent cults.

bobknight33 said:

Its the same as Biden claiming that the economy is doing great firing on all cylinders. Political BS speak.


Did you see the signed letter from Stormy Danielsl from 2018..

he letter read:

“Over the past few weeks I have been asked countless times to comment on reports of an alleged sexual relationship I had with Donald Trump many, many, many years ago,” Daniels said.

“The fact of the matter is that each party to this alleged affair denied its existence on 2006, 2011, 2016, 2017 and now again in 2018. I am not denying this affair because I was paid ‘hush money’ as has been reported in overseas owned tabloids. I am denying this affair because it never happened,” she said.

“I will have no further comment on this matter,” she said.

Yet another failed attempt form bought elected officials to stop an none bought elected official.


https://republicbrief.com/breaking-trump-shares-explosive-letter-from-stormy-daniels-in-2018/

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

Wow.
You really need to go back to school and learn how to read, or you need to get to the institution because the dementia is full blown. You really are a silly little boy, aren’t you? You thought this proof of your prepubescence and illiteracy was worth posting. Honestly, if your account wasn’t 13 years old I would be sure you were only 12.

What I said is the sham investigations BY republicans are only finding Republicans who violated oaths of office, ethics rules, and who hired “whistleblowers” that are revealed to be disgraced agents that sided with criminals and who are now paid political actors, and are in fact disproving the “crimes” they are meant to “investigate”, and proving time and time again that Republicans are actually guilty of what they accused Democrats of doing.

Every accusation is an admission, and Republicans have 3 “investigations” looking into their accusations/admissions and finding Republican crimes.

Benghazi all over again. The Big Lie all over again. Republicans are so incredibly stupid they never learn from their mistakes and just keep trying the same failed tactic of making up a ridiculous charge against a political enemy then spending hundreds of millions of tax payer dollars disproving it. Already done with the Twitter investigation, now with the weaponization investigation, what’s next? Laptop investigations? Trump doesn’t want that….his has top secret classified information copied into it with a digital record of which countries he’s sent it to, and the child porn.

I’m truly sad for you that your dementia has gone full blown. It’s been a time talking with you. Best wishes for your family.

PS- looks like you might lose FOX soon. Handing confidential campaign information from Biden’s advertising contracts to Jared is both an FCC and FEC violation big enough to repeal their license, and the suits have already started over that. After the $4.3 billion they’ll lose for lying about Dominion and Smartmatic, and the admission under oath by every talking head at Fox and Murdoch that they knew the big lie was a lie all along but spreading the lie got them more money from you suckers, going off the air completely is going to hurt. Good job, crazy lying far right media, you’ve managed to lie yourself into the poor house and soon off the air.

bobknight33 said:

So finally you starting to admit that the Jan 6 "insurrection" is a sham by the Democrats.

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

Lol. Yeah, that’s me. Mr establishment.

Working for the cia!? Hardly. Page had been approved several years earlier as an “operational contact” for the CIA, a term for people who provide information to the agency that they gather but are not paid or tasked with carrying out assignments. Basically a confidential informant….what crime were they letting slide to compel that one wonders. Still, that should not have been hidden when applying for a warrant extension, a 3rd and 4th warrant whose fruits were never used and voluntarily sequestered btw, the first two were deemed legal proper warrants.

The Steel dossier was compiled for Republicans during the primary. Most of the charges it levied or suggested have been proven, but not all. All know this but some people need to cling onto this lie, fools like you that need everything to be a convoluted conspiracy because then it’s ok that you don’t understand what’s happening.

Muller has said clearly he found obstruction by Trump and Barr lied and covered it up. At least 8 Trump officials were found guilty of crimes Mueller uncovered among others, I believe 36, since you don’t seem to know that any crimes were found, here’s some…
(List from 2020)
Former Trump 2016 campaign chairman Paul Manafort: Sentenced to 7.5 years in prison this March for bank and tax fraud and crimes related to his work as a political consultant in Ukraine.
Trump's former personal attorney Michael Cohen: Received a three-year prison sentence in Dec. 2018 for tax evasion, bank fraud, lying to Congress and campaign finance violations.
Former Trump campaign adviser George Papadopoulos: Convicted of lying to investigators about about Russian contacts. He served 12 days in prison and in October, filed to run for former Rep. Katie Hill's California seat.
Richard Pinedo: The California man was sentenced to six months in prison in Oct. 2018 for selling bank account numbers to Russians who engaged in election interference. He has no known connection to Trump.
Dutch attorney Alex van der Zwaan: Pleaded guilty to lying to federal investigators about his work for law firm Skadden, Arps, Meagher, & Flom LLP and Affiliates in 2012. He was sentenced to 30 days in prison and a $20,000 fine.
Ex-Trump campaign deputy chairman Rick Gates: Pleaded guilty in Feb. 2018 to conspiracy and lying to the FBI. After cooperating extensively in multiple investigations, Gates was sentenced in December to 45 days in jail, three years of probation and 300 hours of community service.
Roger Stone: Sentenced to 40 months in prison for crimes that include obstruction of justice, lying to Congress and witness tampering. A federal jury convicted Stone last year after he lied to Congress about his efforts to learn more about when WikiLeaks would publish damaging emails about Hillary Clinton during the 2016 presidential election.
Awaiting sentencing:

Former national security adviser Michael Flynn: The retired three-star general pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI in Dec. 2017.

ROTFLMAHS!!! WHAT!?! Are you having a stroke?

bobknight33 said:

Man still schilling for the deep state.

Page had been wrongly accused and was, in fact, working for the CIA, not the Russians.

The Steele dossier was 100% fabricated. All know this but some people need to cling onto this lie, Fools like you.


Muller spent 40 Million and found nothing but low hanging fruit. Again a Big fat ZERO .

Again take you head out of you ass and wipe that shit off you face. You are a fool on the sift.

you a Mr 100% my shit is facts--- No Nope Nada Zip.

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

Today’s Republican major vote fraud case….

“A Michigan poll worker for the Republicans has been arrested recently for tampering with the voting system following the August, 2022 Republican primary up there in the state of Michigan. The man's named James Hoor, and what happened was that he used a personal USB drive, inserted it into an electronic poll book after polls closed the night of the August 2nd primary in Gaines Township precinct. Eight poll workers used the book to administer the election, which contains voter registration data, including confidential personal identifying information about all voters in the precinct, and Mr. Hoor put his personal USB drive into that machine to, I guess, copy data before any of that information could be sent to the state or change it. So he is taking the raw data. This has not been approved by anyone. Nobody told him he was allowed to do this. He took the data from that machine before anybody could verify what was on it. Now, these machines, by the way, are not connected to the internet, so he could not access it remotely. He had to do it with the flash drive. It's also unclear whether or not he was taking data or putting data in the machine. So we don't know that. And this was again, the raw data. This had not been certified. Nobody else knew what all was in this system. And this Republican came along and compromised all of it. This completely invalidates all votes on that electronic poll book.”

More fraud, 100% Republican frauds. Every single one. Most by officials, campaigns, or the RNC themselves. Videos of training poll watchers to break laws, bring electronic devices, go where you aren’t allowed to go, intimidate workers, etc. any Republican win in November is tainted and invalidated, none should be sworn in but instead held in legal limbo until 24, because they intentionally invalidated the elections. There’s no Republican that can win without cheating, so there’s not one valid Republican representative in government.

Also a PS- Bohbert has yet to file any claims against the group that said they have evidence that she had two abortions, was an unregistered escort (hooker), and a DUI accident with injuries she covered up like she claimed she would be doing in June when th stories broke. That amounts to an admission they are true, and she’s now being sued by the reporters for claiming the reports were lies.

This as Mengele Oz campaigned with Hitler’s car right after his mass puppy killing scandal came to light.

ROTFLMFAHS!!!

Big Red - 1964

StukaFox says...

They got so much right on that one! Today, we actually have trucks and they use engines -- who could have possibly foreseen such wonders in the darkest ages of the late 1960s?! Surely, this is the result of witchcraft combined with technology and just a wee pinch of leaded gasoline and DDT.

Next week on "Our Amazing Future": an astounding device will wait until your wife is asleep and then deliver an unstoppable deluge of pornography directly to you from all over the world -- in COLOR!!

Military scientists are already hard at work on the "inter-net", by which the conveyance of rank smut into your bedroom will forever put to rest that embarrassing walk over to BIG TONY'S TIT-A-TORIUM for your weekly purchases of "Giant Goddamn Asses" and "Judy Hopps Confidential." Apparently you'll also be able to get news and culture and all that other who-cares bullshit, like anyone gives a fuck since there's gonna be way hella titties! And grey fur.

Can someone please recommend a good mental health specialist?

Joe Biden response towards Tara Reade allegations

JiggaJonson says...

Just fyi

The supposed sexual assault happeend in the middle of 1993 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/us/politics/joe-biden-tara-reade-sexual-assault-complaint.html

Isn't it a bit odd that the person who passed the Violence Against Women Act in 1994 (so he was lobbying to get it passed and the bill was introduced in January 1993), am I the only person who thinks its odd that he passed this bill:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_Against_Women_Act
see also https://www.congress.gov/bill/103rd-congress/senate-bill/11 for the full text

So you mean to tell me
While he was co-sponsoring/writing/passing THAT PARTICULAR LAW that created the following:

--- established annual $1.6 billion toward investigation and prosecution of violent crimes against women

---codified sex crimes to make them Federal crimes

---imposed automatic and mandatory penalties on those convicted

---allowed civil cases to be brought in cases prosecutors chose to leave un-prosecuted

---created confidentiality protections for victims

---created a training program for judges to encourage them to prosecute sexual assault crimes against women


So WHILE he's making it easier to sue and bring charges against former employers and creates mandatory minimums for those found guilty and if the prosecutors don't want to do it, created a pathway for civil lawsuits to be brought - you're telling me that WHILE he's doing that, he sexually assaults one of his employees from his offices WHILE he's doing that?

That doesn't make any fucking sense.
That doesn't make any fucking sense.
That doesn't make any fucking sense.
That doesn't make any fucking sense.
That doesn't make any fucking sense.
That doesn't make any fucking sense.


That the best you got you little bitch?

bobknight33 said:

Finger banging Joe 2020


Well this will sink his 2020 chances.
Hillary at the dugout warming up.

Trump talked about grabbing by the P.

Joe actually did.

Blocking Trump Tax Return = 5 Years In Jail

newtboy says...

Since you are ignorant of the law and incapable of finding it yourself, here is section 7214 ....read it and get back to me, I'll explain how it applies.



26 U.S. Code § 7214. Offenses by officers and employees of the United States

(a) Unlawful acts of revenue officers or agents
Any officer or employee of the United States acting in connection with any revenue law of the United States—
(1) who is guilty of any extortion or willful oppression under color of law; or
(2) who knowingly demands other or greater sums than are authorized by law, or receives any fee, compensation, or reward, except as by law prescribed, for the performance of any duty; or
(3) who with intent to defeat the application of any provision of this title fails to perform any of the duties of his office or employment; or
(4) who conspires or colludes with any other person to defraud the United States; or
(5) who knowingly makes opportunity for any person to defraud the United States; or
(6) who does or omits to do any act with intent to enable any other person to defraud the United States; or
(7) who makes or signs any fraudulent entry in any book, or makes or signs any fraudulent certificate, return, or statement; or
(8) who, having knowledge or information of the violation of any revenue law by any person, or of fraud committed by any person against the United States under any revenue law, fails to report, in writing, such knowledge or information to the Secretary; or
(9) who demands, or accepts, or attempts to collect, directly or indirectly as payment or gift, or otherwise, any sum of money or other thing of value for the compromise, adjustment, or settlement of any charge or complaint for any violation or alleged violation of law, except as expressly authorized by law so to do;
shall be dismissed from office or discharged from employment and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not more than $10,000, or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both. The court may in its discretion award out of the fine so imposed an amount, not in excess of one-half thereof, for the use of the informer, if any, who shall be ascertained by the judgment of the court. The court also shall render judgment against the said officer or employee for the amount of damages sustained in favor of the party injured, to be collected by execution.


Edit: I'll save time, here's the other law he's violating which unambiguously states he had no choice but to turn them over immediately.

26 U.S. Code § 6103. Confidentiality and disclosure of returns and return information
(11) Disclosure of information regarding status of investigation of violation of this section
(f) Disclosure to Committees of Congress
(1) Committee on Ways and Means, Committee on Finance, and Joint Committee on Taxation
Upon written request from the chairman of the Committee on Ways and Means of the House of Representatives, the chairman of the Committee on Finance of the Senate, or the chairman of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish such committee with any return or return information specified in such request, except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.

Edit: allow me to save time again, by not following 6103 (11) (f) and furnishing the return requested in writing by the chairman of the Ways and Means committee, he undeniably violates 7214 (a) (3), which comes with a 5 year sentence. Understand now?

bobknight33 said:

8 minutes of nothing.

What is not mentioned is what law give those asking for his returns and under what conditions he must turn them over.

Only the penalty is discussed.

The witch hunt continues.

Obama, Mueller and the Biggest Scam in American History

BSR says...

Wikipedia-

Bongino received bipartisan criticism for using his Secret Service background as part of his run for political office and for his claim of having secret information based on conversations he overheard in the Obama White House.[5][6][1]

An anonymous former colleague criticized him for trying to use his proximity to President Obama in his political career: "He's trying to draw attention to himself and he's hijacking the Secret Service brand. That's all he's got going for him."

Bongino claimed to have had access to "high-level discussions" in the White House. Anonymous former colleagues said he "tends to exaggerate his importance on the presidential detail and exaggerate his proximity" and that "We don't sit in on meetings at the White House. We don't sit in on high-level meetings."[5]

In response to the criticism from an anonymous former colleague, Bongino stated "There's nothing confidential in the book" and "It's not a tell-all. It's my tale of the Secret Service."

Samantha Bee - THIS SASSY KOALA VIDEO IS ...

entr0py says...

That was perfect, that was very much how I wanted to respond to Ashleigh Banfield's rebuke, but more humorous and generous. Everyone has the right to talk about experiences they themselves went through. Confidentiality is a reasonable expectation, say, sometimes between spouses. But not after a first date ffs.

eric3579 (Member Profile)

Hockey Fights now available pre-game! Full-teams included!

MilkmanDan says...

You almost never hear of an NHL player being upset (in a litigation sort of way) about injuries they got that resulted from fighting (drop the gloves and throw punches).

In general, the one major incident I am aware of that resulted in legal action being taken against a player was when Todd Bertuzzi checked Steve Moore down the the ice from behind and then drove his head/neck into the ice with his stick in some heavy followup hits. This is mentioned in the wikipedia article @eric3579 posted, and hinted at in the article @RedSky posted from the Economist.

In that incident, Steve Moore (a lower-level player on the Colorado Avalanche) had hit Marcus Naslund (a star level player of the Vancouver Canucks) in a previous game. That hit was a fairly normal hockey hit -- Naslund had the puck, Moore intentionally hit him to try to separate him from the puck, but arguably led with his elbow to Naslund's head. It was a dangerous play, that should have be penalized (it wasn't) -- although I don't think Moore intended to cause injury. It is a fast game, sometimes you can't react quick enough to avoid a dangerous collision like that. Still, I think that kind of play should be penalized to make it clear to players that they need to avoid dangerous plays if possible. Steve Moore didn't have a history of dirty or dangerous play, but still.

Anyway, all of that dovetails in pretty nicely with my previous post, specifically about what leads to a "spontaneous fight". Moore, a 3-4th line guy (lower ranks of skill/ability on the team) hit star player Naslund. In almost ANY hockey game where that kind of thing happens, you can expect that somebody from the star's team is going to go over to the offending player and push them around, probably with the intent to fight them. Usually it happens right at the time of the incident, but here it was delayed to a following game between the two teams.

In the next game between Colorado and Vancouver, Moore got challenged by a Vancouver player early in the first period and fought him. But I guess that the lag time and injury to Naslund (he ended up missing 3 games) had brewed up more bad blood than that so many Vancouver players hadn't gotten it fully out of their systems. Later in the game, Todd Bertuzzi skated up behind Moore when he didn't have the puck, grabbed him and tailed him for several seconds trying to get him into a second fight, and when he didn't respond just hauled back and punched him in the back of the head.

Moore fell to the ice, where Bertuzzi piled on him and drove his head into the ice. A big scrum/dogpile ensued, with Moore on the bottom. As a result of that, Moore fractured 3 vertebrae in his neck, stretched or tore some neck ligaments, got his face pretty cut up, etc. Pretty severe injuries.

So, in comparison:
Moore (lesser skill) hit Naslund (high skill) resulting in a minor(ish) injury, that could have ended up being much worse. But, it was a legitimate hockey play that just happened to occur at a time when Naslund was vulnerable -- arguably no intent to harm/injure.
Bertuzzi hit Moore in a following game, after he had already "answered" for his hit on Naslund by fighting a Vancouver player. Bertuzzi punched him from behind and followed up with further violence, driving his head into the ice and piling on him, initiating a dogpile. Not even close to a legitimate hockey play, well away from the puck, and with pretty clear intent to harm (maybe not to injure, but to harm).


Moore sued Bertuzzi, his team (the Canucks), and the NHL. Bertuzzi claimed that his coach had put a "bounty" on Moore, and that he hadn't intended to injure him -- just to get back at him for his hit on Naslund. Bertuzzi was suspended for a fairly long span of time, and his team was fined $250,000. The lawsuit was kind of on pause for a long time to gauge the long-term effects on Moore, but was eventually settled out of court (confidential terms).

All of this stuff is or course related to violence in hockey, but only loosely tied to fighting in hockey. Some would argue (with some merit in my opinion) that if the refs had called a penalty on Moore's hit on Naslund, and allowed a Vancouver player to challenge him to a fight at that time instead of the following game, it probably wouldn't have escalated to the level it did.

So, at least in my opinion, the league (NHL) needs to be careful, consistent, and fairly harsh in handing out penalties/suspensions to players who commit dangerous plays that can or do result in injuries -- especially repeat offenders. BUT, I think that allowing fighting can actually help mitigate that kind of stuff also -- as long as the league keeps it from getting out of hand and the enforcer type players continue to follow their "code".

Merry Christmas / Happy Holidays to ALL. (Happy Talk Post)

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