no vote for my kabballah vid?
you make enoch sad -(

>> ^HadouKen24:

Interesting.
It doesn't make much mention of Hermetic Qabalah, though. It briefly mentions that the texts reached scholars who used it to interpret ancient Greek writings. This interpretation of the Kabbalah was eventually also fused with the grimoire traditions (which also contained practices preserved from ancient Greece, along with Christian and Muslim elements), to the extent that after the 16th century, nearly all serious magicians also studied Kabbalah. And this continued on for several centuries.
The version used by practicing occultists--who usually spell the tradition as Qabalah or Qabbalah--was refined and popularized during the occult revival of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Alongside the occult revival, and with many overlapping figures, was a revival of Paganism and a general rejection of Christianity. These twin movements sort of bubbled along under the surface until the 60s and 70s, when they started gaining steam. And with the rise of the internet in the 90s, as access to the ideas grew, the movements exploded.
With the rather curious result that there are now thousands of self-professed Pagans and occultists who, with no affiliation with Christianity or Judaism at all, nonetheless study the Zohar and the Sepher Yetzirah with a great deal of energy. Naturally, the traditions one finds among these communities differ substantially from Kabbalah as practiced by Jewish adherents.


excellent synopsis!

If you don't believe in original sin, you don't believe in redemptive history. You have to explain the purpose of the law and how it came to be, as well as how Jesus fufilled that law and what the purpose was of His death on the cross. It's a little bit more complicated than you're making out. You can't just cut out the OT and pretend that it still makes sense. Jesus told us in plain words why He was there and what He was doing and for what reasons. He fulfilled prophecy from the OT which predicted His coming, and He spoke about the OT as literal history. To contridict any of that makes it logically incoherent. To say Genesis is a conspiracy is grandiose claim as well. What evidence do you have this is true?

>> ^enoch:
original sin is a fabrication of the church to establish control and dominance but has never really been able to prove this position.though there are many fundamentalists who will defend this position, it still will not hold water when put under proper scrutiny.
for many evangelicals to refute the original sin story is to also refute jesus.
this is untrue,but to attempt to explain that to someone who views the bible as the literal word of god would be an exercise in futility.
they will defend the position of original sin staunchly and vigorously.
to do otherwise would be to reject jesus in their mind.
most theologians agree that original sin put forth by the church is a fallacious argument.
my position is that the book of genesis is the metaphorical representation of kabballah and has nothing to be understood in literal terms but rather an abstract of creation,the godhead and correlation between this physical universe with the "nether".

original sin is a fabrication of the church to establish control and dominance but has never really been able to prove this position.though there are many fundamentalists who will defend this position, it still will not hold water when put under proper scrutiny.
for many evangelicals to refute the original sin story is to also refute jesus.
this is untrue,but to attempt to explain that to someone who views the bible as the literal word of god would be an exercise in futility.
they will defend the position of original sin staunchly and vigorously.
to do otherwise would be to reject jesus in their mind.

most theologians agree that original sin put forth by the church is a fallacious argument.
my position is that the book of genesis is the metaphorical representation of kabballah and has nothing to be understood in literal terms but rather an abstract of creation,the godhead and correlation between this physical universe with the "nether".

evil is subjective based on ones perception.
moral relativism.
a fundamentalist struggles with three basics:
1.original sin
2.creation as put forth in genesis
3.the resurrection

the fundamentalist does not struggle in the beliefs of these three things but rather they struggle to defend them,because all three are easily vivisected.
what most free-thinking people have a hard time comprehending (understandably so) is why a fundamentalist will continue to defend these three in particular when the evidence is overwhelmingly the opposite.
put quite simply..they have to.
to accept even the remotest possibility that any of these tenants might be incorrect is tantamount to refuting god because to them the bible is the UN-ERRING word of god.
for example:to accept evolution is to say the book of genesis is wrong and to a fundamentalist these equates to saying god is wrong.so they are forced to defend a book that is in actuality a metaphorical representation of kabballah.genesis is about creation just not in the literal sense that fundamentalist comprehend it to represent.

christianity can be broken down in to three basic categories:
1.liberal=catholic,episcopalian,methodist etc etc
2.evangelical=pentacostal,baptist (not all baptist btw)
3.fundamentalist=southern baptist,church of the nazerene,7th day adventist

the liberal christian believes in jesus christ and the resurrection.they believe in heaven and hell (abstractly at least).they view such books as genesis as allegorical but not historical and view other biblical books as metaphor and glean what wisdom they can based on their own understandings.they will accept another as christian as long as that person beleieves jesus is christ and he died for their sins.

the evangelical is part fundamentalist and part liberal.they change their view in accord with the situation but the most important part of an evangelical christians life is to spread the word of salvation.to spread the word of christ to all who will listen.

the fundamentalist is an all-together different animal.the bible is the un-erring word of god..end of discussion.while they spread the word of god and the salvation and grace afforded us by the death and resurrection,they will also perceive any questioning in a negative manner of their belief in the infallible bible as a personal attack upon themselves and will respond in kind (wrapped in false humility).they are commanded to save your soul and they will engage in this venture with vigor and gusto but when met with resistance they will become agitated and confused.
to them they are sharing the word...they are offering you salvation and if questioned,mocked or refused they become baffled at first.
why would anybody refuse or question pure love and forgiveness?
refuse peace of mind and a calm,joyful heart?

philosophical musings concerning the nature of morality and good and evil aside,to a fundamentalist there is only black and white.either it came from god or the satan did it.now they may rationalize this in a many number of different ways but in the end it always comes down to that basic equation and for those of you who know religious history you understand the vast number who were slaughtered,maimed,tortured and outright murdered due to that infantile approach.that highly destructive approach is what helped usher in the christian reformation and is why people are no longer forced to accept the churches edicts or christians killing other christains for not being "the right kind of christian".the fundamentalist has no problem pointing to another christian and accusing him/her of being false (isnt that right shiny?)because the fundamentalist need only refer to the bible to exact his/her judgment of another.the fundamentalist will also retreat to the most intellectually ineffective place when faced with constant opposition:satan

so when engaging with a fundamentalist understand that your continued perceived attacks on that fundamentalists biblical understandings and your unwillingness to accept that jesus christ is lord and died for your sins...well..then you are damned and have been deluded by satan.you have been tricked by the most indominable trickster and while the fundamentalist may pray for you..to them you are damned to an eternity of punishment and sorrow.because that is the last and only place a fundamentalist can retreat to...satan did it and satan has corrupted you.may the lord have mercy on your soul.the bible is truth incarnate to them and everything else is a lie brought upon this earth by satan.

this is why i do not engage with a fundamentalist.for anything i postulate that may be construed as being in conflict with biblical teachings will immediately be rejected and despised and if i continue then it is ME that will be rejected and despised..as an agent of satan.(but they will pray for my soul..thank you for that mr fundamentalist).

this is the reason why we see so many fundamentalist attempting to disprove evolution or prove the truth of the bible being historically accurate.
they have to..to do otherwise would mean reject god.

i am not going to downvote this video but i refuse to upvote either.
good luck shinyblurry in your attempts to educate the masses on the truth.

first let me thank both BRM and ryjkyj for reading my novella.very cool of both of you.i kinda put myself out there and you both didnt just outright laugh..i thank you both.
@BRM
i understand.
the reason why i wrote that short novella was to put forth an alternative idea of god,not to push any form of ideology upon you.while it may be an ancient concept,it is not exactly a popular one.the people who attempted to make a community based on that ideology were wiped out.
hopefully it accomplished two things:
1.not every idea of god is based on theology.
2.that i do not pretend to hold secret knowledge,nor am i somehow more special than you due to my faith.
my faith is not based on a book nor a old white dude with a beard who watches from afar judging us all.
my ultimate goal was to paint a picture where those i converse with on the sift could know that i have no religion to offend.i wont take some slight against my ideas as some attack on my god based solely on dogma.
because i adhere to no dogma.

consciousness is one of my favorite discussions and something i have spent a great deal of time thinking about since i was a teen.
what is consciousness?
this is an ongoing question and one i feel is vitally important.we are still learning and the subject fascinates me.
i find this discussion more engrossing and challenging with atheists and other seekers.fundamentalists tend to be quite boring with this subject for obvious reasons.

@Ryjkyj
i was just pointing out the literal translation but i understand why you would reject agnostic in a literal sense.as i stated.it does not really matter,i understand your point and desire for your position to not be confused in any way.
i am totally ok with that.

as for my thesis on god and the edict to "create".
you mention nuclear weapons.
good example.
let me add:murder,torture,domination,genocide.we could go all day.
conversely we could talk about:love,compassion,understanding,forgiveness.
my point was that the creator regards all these as the same,it is WE who deem them "good" or "evil".
that god experiences its own creation subjectively through us..all of us..while we experience gods creation every minute of everyday.
you being aware of this is not necessary because you do it naturally and is one of the main reasons why i would have been burned at the stake (and those that DID postulate this idea centuries ago were executed).religion becomes irrelevant with my scenario.
you are god..god is you and we are all connected.

we understand and relate to the universe through only FIVE sense...thats it..five.
our consciousness interacts with this universe using those senses.with the advent of more and more complicated tools which allow us to perceive the universe in a much more grand scale we have found that the universe keeps getting bigger,richer and far more poetic than any theology could EVER put forth.
evolution has more poetry and beauty then the book of genesis could ever think to muster.
(genesis is actually a metaphorical representation of kabballah)

i love science.
i am not particularly good at say bio-chem or the math of quantum physics (that math is beyond me)but i find each discovery a revelation concerning my faith.
to me science is the slow pulling back of the veil by way of exploration,curiosity and eventual understanding by way of testing physical evidence and/or repeatable,testable results.
these results tend to conflict with religious doctrine but totally coincide with my understanding of a creator.

consciousness is not a closed chapter but something we are still discussing,probing and attempting to understand.so when i use the term to describe god i do so in that light,not with any secret understanding.
so..according to my way of looking at things.if god created the universe from itself it would reside both outside time/space and also WITHIN time/space.
proveable? not a chance...hence=faith
we are talking about a consciousness that is literally the entire universe.a concept that would be hard for anybody to wrap their head around.
i do not pretend to understand this consciousness.how could i?
but i do know i see this consciousness manifesting all around me and it is constant.

i understand that both of you reject this ideology and i am totally ok with that.
in my eyes conversations such as these are more about sharing ideas than being right..or righteous.
my conclusions are my own and they are always changing as more information becomes available.
but i have to say that since i was a teen nothing i have read or learned has changed my position,in fact,it has strengthened it.

thank you both for being so kind and respectful towards my ideas.
i tend to avoid putting things like this out there because i get whacked by both sides..atheists AND religious.
you both have been very kind.
and i thank you.

oh fuck it.
i'll throw in also:
1.grew up with an irrational fear of men and authority due to my father being extremely strict.yet he remains one of the most amazing people i have ever encountered.my life has been less since his passing.
2.in high school i was always the guy who protected the weaker from bullies and got in a lot of trouble doing but i dont regret any of that.
3.did so much blotter acid in high school that i am now strichnine(sp?) sensitive and now it just turns me into one big cramp.
4.did a tour in the navy and had the bright idea to get a free lift to spain upon discharge.couldnt find any work yet still stayed and spent all my money,had to panhandle in the airport to get the money to get back to the states.
5.while i am fantastic at starting projects i rarely finish them.dropped out of college three times and left seminary school after less then a month.though i did get my propulsion engineering degree it was from the navy,dont think that counts and i hate math.
6.while i am not the prettiest man i have always been able to date far above my league.dated 2 porn stars and quite a few you men here may have seen in your favorite nudey mag.
7.in my 20's i traveled around DJ'in for titty bars,and yes,i dated many of them also.
8.started writing poetry,bad poetry, when i was 7.i still think my poetry is bad.
9.was raised episcopalian but left the church at 14 when father ryan could not answer my questions in any sunbstansive way.
10.in my late 20's i married a beautiful abusive woman who would burn the bottoms of my feet so i would not fall asleep while she was screaming at me in a drunken blackout.i withstood this abuse for 3 years,which was constant,until i decided enough was enough and walked out leaving her everything.until this moment i had never realized just how passive aggressive and fearful i actually was.i actually give her credit for freeing me.
11.in my early 30's some friends introduced me to exstasy.while the drug was not something i indulged in for long i fell in love with the whole scene and traveled the raves for about 3 years and every now again i will participate but the things i saw and learned live with me still.
12,took a road trip with some friends from chicago(where i was living at the time)to san diego.after a drug induced crazy weekend they left me in a pool of my own vomit and went back to chicago.needless to say we are no longer friends,but san diego was nice,so i stayed awhile.
13.did a midnight move out when i lived in lauderdale,left everything.on the drive to tampa the rotor arm in my car snapped in alligator alley.i left it and signed the title over to a clerk at a chevron in naples because she said her car was dead.3 dollar part would have fixed my car.
14.hitch-hiked from providence to phillie with my best friend from childhood.think we were 16.the trip took us almost a week and we dropped between us 33 hits of acid.that was fun calling your dad to tell him you are in phillie and not to worry while tripping balls.
15.stole a car in my teens to save my friends girlfriend from her crazy ex boyfriend.we didnt even have our licenses yet.
16.music is everything to me.i am not a purist nor an elitist.if it speaks to me and my mood at the time i will love it.
17.i can be argumentative just for the sake of being contrary.i may even agree with your point but will interject a contrary view just to better understand the subject.
18.have no patience for egotistical lazy thinkers and respond accordingly.
19.over the years i have come to realize that the more i think i am understanding something the larger my ignorance seems to grow.this is frustrating as it is exciting.
20.while i do not subscribe to a religion.in fact i am vehemently anti-religious.i am a man of faith.closest definition would be gnostic-christian but i also subscribe to kabballah.
21.i consume far too much media and many times do not give a proper alottment of time to process all that information due to my adult a.d.d.
22.i have found teaching to be my hidden passion and hope for an opportunity soon to practice that passion once again.
23.i live by a code of :honesty,open-ness and respect.i am rarely offended because i never let anyone dictate how i should feel about myself.
24.i am most likely the most opinionated person you know but i always listen to what you have to say.
25.i dont regret anything that i have done,seen or experienced because i would not be who i am today.

i find the people on the sift fascinating.