I don't see the clip being disrespectful - how many times has Bush been lampooned? The great and the good have had to bear being satirised. It really depends on how precious one is about national/historical figures. As a Brit I don't mind one iota if the target is the Queen, Gordon Brown, Churchill or whoever. I imagine most people here aren't too bothered. One exception might be Princess Diana - there are still alot of twits who get precious about her.

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
I disagree. The locations you mention have quotations & images of philosophers, historical figures, poets, authors, actors, atheletes, and public figures of all kinds. Some (not all) of those displays have origins in religion. The historical role of religion in government and law is important. It is part of our culture. For a modern court or school to give a nod & pay homage to that role is not a slap in the face of any particular belief system, nor is it 'advocating' any particular religion.
When a library somewhere puts up a pithy quote from Frued, Nietzsche, or some other sectarian it isn't a big deal to me - even if I disagree with the overall senitment. It doesn't make me want to 'join' an organization that respects the subject. They are just tipping a hat to 'good advice' and great people & events from our shared history. To suggest that some images/quotes/events/displays should be banned because they happen to have their origins in religion is censorship of the worst kind - and people who claim to be 'open minded' should be ashamed to have any part of it.


If a courthouse had a display of a dozen different ancient law codes, and the ten commandments was one of them, I don't think it would be a problem for most atheists. The problem is when that is the ONLY one displayed, especially in the form of a "2.6-ton granite monument".

And if you take another look at the ten commandments, only two of them (murder and theft) are still against the law. Well, two and a half, since bearing false witness is sometimes illegal. If you want to "give a nod" to it, fine, but others try to claim it's the "foundation" of our legal system (as in the article). Twenty five percent congruity is not a foundation, and I doubt there is a religion or philosophy where those actions aren't condemned. So "give a nod" to all of the other ones, too.

And I also think it is highly unlikely that your local library would be able to post "God is dead." on the wall. But I'm glad to hear you would let it slide if they did.

Atheists are the ones saying that there shouldn't be displays of religious beliefs on public property like courthouses, schools, libraries gov't buildings. There's a big difference.

I disagree. The locations you mention have quotations & images of philosophers, historical figures, poets, authors, actors, atheletes, and public figures of all kinds. Some (not all) of those displays have origins in religion. The historical role of religion in government and law is important. It is part of our culture. For a modern court or school to give a nod & pay homage to that role is not a slap in the face of any particular belief system, nor is it 'advocating' any particular religion.

When a library somewhere puts up a pithy quote from Frued, Nietzsche, or some other sectarian it isn't a big deal to me - even if I disagree with the overall senitment. It doesn't make me want to 'join' an organization that respects the subject. They are just tipping a hat to 'good advice' and great people & events from our shared history. To suggest that some images/quotes/events/displays should be banned because they happen to have their origins in religion is censorship of the worst kind - and people who claim to be 'open minded' should be ashamed to have any part of it.

Most textbooks today already ARE whitewashed versions of actual history. Historical figures are presented and mythical hero's who either surpassed incredible odds at great peril, or were practical saints. Here's just a couple bits you will almost certainly never learn in a high school classroom.

a) Helen Keller - Blind and Deaf, everyone has probably seen the scene where she learns finally how to sign under the water from a pump. What you don't know was that after graduating from college she joined the Socialist Party and hailed the coming of Socialism. (She had good reasons for this, look her up if your interested)

b) Woodrow Wilson - Despite receiving a large black vote into office, the man created many policies that were as he was in fact, extremely racist. This cause at least in part, the large resurgence of white supremacist racism during the late part of his term and afterwards.

I could go on about the atrocities that Columbus committed as well. The plain fact is that US History as taught in high school today centers EVERYTHING on Europe having "accomplished" everything first. And this crazy overprotective moron wants to whitewash it even further.

1. What is your idea of perfect happiness?

Being in a small but livable house somewhere in the prince edward islands surrounded by my books and movies.

2. What is your greatest fear?

Ceaseless physical pain.

3. What is the trait you most deplore in yourself?

My intractable need to lie to people.

4. What is the trait you most deplore in others?

Egotism.

5. Which living person do you most admire?

Maybe a journalist. Or an interviewer like Neal Conan from "Talk of the Nation" or a blogger like Andrew Sullivan. But i dont know. Maybe a filmmaker like Takeshi Kitano? Thats tough. Most of the figures I truly truly admire are dead. Lol

6. What is your greatest extravagance?

My smoking. Expecially in NY state. Its like 8 dollars a pack.

7. What is your current state of mind?

Somewhat at peace. Gettin' excited to go out for beers with my new colleagues.

8. What do you consider the most overrated virtue?

Confidence--it freezes personalities in place and I am sick of waiting for the ice to thaw.

9. On what occasion do you lie?

On many. Mostly when I want to disguise who I really am, which may be lost altogether.

10. What do you most dislike about your appearance?

The grey hairs on my beard.

11. Which living person do you most despise?

Dick Cheney would have to be up there.

12. What is the quality you most like in a man?

Humility, warmth, intelligence, strong and independent.

13. What is the quality you most like in a woman?

Humility, warmth, intelligence, strong and independent.

14. Which words or phrases do you most overuse?

Fuck.

15. What or who is the greatest love of your life?

A woman who no longer causes me emotional pain but whom I still love.

16. When and where were you happiest?

Its hard to remember. I think two winters ago when I was living in Boston and still making and watching movies, and drinking, and with good people.

17. Which talent would you most like to have?

Piano.

18. If you could change one thing about yourself, what would it be?

Not be so nervous all the time.

19. What do you consider your greatest achievement?

Getting into a first rate PhD program.

20. If you were to die and come back as a person or a thing, what would it be?

Maybe something like a mountain goat.

21. Where would you most like to live?

Iceland or Montreal both sound great to me.

22. What is your most treasured possession?

I'll try and avoid platitudes like "my brain" and just say my laptop.

23. What do you regard as the lowest depth of misery?

Being in any way helplessly beholden to any one person or group of people. The police, or a shitty relationship, for instance.

24. What is your favorite occupation?

Film programmer.

25. What is your most marked characteristic?

My beard

26. What do you most value in your friends?

Understanding.

27. Who are your favorite writers?

Borges.

28. Who is your hero of fiction?

Werther (from the Goethe novella)

29. Which historical figure do you most identify with?

Shit. I have no idea.

30. Who are your heroes in real life?

A friend of mine.

31. What are your favorite names?

Cathleen. Huston.

32. What is it that you most dislike?

Uptight, mean fucks.

33. What is your greatest regret?

Drinking nearly a whole year away.

34. How would you like to die?

Suicide. When its rationally 'time'

35. What is your motto?

Don't take me or yourself too seriously.

1. What is your idea of perfect happiness?
Being in love.
2. What is your greatest fear?
Dying (not death, because by then I'll be dead).
3. What is the trait you most deplore in yourself?
Jealousy.
4. What is the trait you most deplore in others?
Dishonesty or abuse.
5. Which living person do you most admire?
Daniel Dennett
6. What is your greatest extravagance?
I don't think I really have any great extravagance. Maybe my computer?
7. What is your current state of mind?
Relaxed and thoughtful.
8. What do you consider the most overrated virtue?
Altruism and faith.
9. On what occasion do you lie?
Rarely, but if my lie can save a lot of grief, by avoiding an unnecessary confrontation about something stupid, I might.
10. What do you most dislike about your appearance?
My gut.
11. Which living person do you most despise?
Hmm, so hard to choose: Kent Hovind, Kenn Hamm (all those creationist dumbfucks), and televangelists. And Rasch187.
12. What is the quality you most like in a man?
Honesty, humor, friendship, intellect.
13. What is the quality you most like in a woman?
Awesome beewbage. Heh. Nah, humor, honesty, straight-forwardness, intellect, friendship.. I look for the same qualities in both guys and girls, to be honest.
14. Which words or phrases do you most overuse?
"Fantastic", "super", "In a minute"
15. What or who is the greatest love of your life?
For now, music.
16. When and where were you happiest?
I don't know. Maybe when I was in Ireland in 2002 and was entangled with a girl from my high school, or one summer in 2003 I think, where we were a bunch of people in a summer house where I played guitar and we all sang and stuff. I liked that.
17. Which talent would you most like to have?
Better song-writing skills.
18. If you could change one thing about yourself, what would it be?
Physically, I'd trim up. (Already on it)
More cosmically, I'd like to be able to have a better overview of a situation during, instead of after it happens.
19. What do you consider your greatest achievement?
My education, my music skills and the website I ran in 2004-2007, which I was very prolific on. (www.edb-tidende.dk it's dead in the water now though)
20. If you were to die and come back as a person or a thing, what would it be?
I would come back as a young version of myself and try to change things up, see what would happen if I made different choices.
21. Where would you most like to live?
With a loved one. Don't really care where.
22. What is your most treasured possession?
My mind. Of things outside myself, then I think the things I can't replace. The data on my computer, pictures, documents etc. I think. All other "possessions" can be replaced. They're just things. I would say friendships, but that's hardly a possession.
23. What do you regard as the lowest depth of misery?
Depression, then everything sucks. Been there, no fun.
24. What is your favorite occupation?
Playing music, engaging in reasonable discussions, masturbation. (at the same time)
25. What is your most marked characteristic?
I say my mind. I'm a pretty straight-forward, no-nonsense kinda guy. Other than that, I don't know. Other people are better judges of that than me.
26. What do you most value in your friends?
Honesty and humor.
27. Who are your favorite writers?
Frank Herbert, Neal Stephenson, William King, Scott McGough.
28. Who is your hero of fiction?
Randy Marsh. Heh, or Rorsharch and Dr. Manhattan. Randy epitomizes the human condition, weak, narrow sighted and everything. Rosharch represents a view of the world in black and white, which I like the concept of; and Dr. Manhattan represents the way the world is and he is basically intellect personified, which I also like.
29. Which historical figure do you most identify with?
This requires me to know a lot of history. I don't, because I don't care much about it. I identify with me, because I am me, no one else.
30. Who are your heroes in real life?
The four horsemen, Dawkins, Dennett, Harris and Hitchens.
31. What are your favorite names?
Lisa, Cecilia, Michael, Jason, off the top of my head.
32. What is it that you most dislike?
People lying to me or in general who are dicks to me. I have no interest in these people.
33. What is your greatest regret?
Two things, I think. Not doing anything about the girl I had a serious crush on for most of my elementary school until high school; and not realizing that Computer Science was not for me earlier, instead of fucking around there for two years.
34. How would you like to die?
I'd rather not.
35. What is your motto?
"Don't be a dick" is something I can stand by.

While I share most of the views regarding science and religion as the presenter, this video fails miserably to be convincing in two fundamental ways. A) It presumes to know the mind of others, namely historical figures long dead and contemporary "Scientists" who have ticked a box in a survey whereby they proclaim a belief in "God" and B) It challenges the validity of these same surveys by making assumptions about the methodology without citation or example. Then there's a giant non-sequitur leap straight into Hell.

Organized, rational, clearly presented arguments backed up by empirical evidence are the hallmarks of Science but what we have here seems to be someone with a very narrow worldview who is preaching to the choir. Kind of like how religion does it.

LOL.. I've had "kitler" as my avatar for awhile now without guff.. I missed this cat furr fight..


In reply to this comment by thinker247:
Fine. I guess it's not worth fighting over, since I obviously can't make a decision without the approval of campiondelmondo. I'll make sure to ask him what is non-offensive before I change my avatar next time.

Thanks.

In reply to this comment by lucky760:
No, I won't furnish you with a list of complainants. And it's not just "a historical figure" but a figure that is blatantly offensive when the presence of his image can easily be interpreted as your celebrating him.

I asked you not to use his image. Putting the word "censored" over his eyes does not qualify as not using his image. Please stop being childish and just do as I asked. It's rather ridiculous that you're trying to push me into hobbling or banning you over an avatar.

Fine. I guess it's not worth fighting over, since I obviously can't make a decision without the approval of campiondelmondo. I'll make sure to ask him what is non-offensive before I change my avatar next time.

Thanks.

In reply to this comment by lucky760:
No, I won't furnish you with a list of complainants. And it's not just "a historical figure" but a figure that is blatantly offensive when the presence of his image can easily be interpreted as your celebrating him.

I asked you not to use his image. Putting the word "censored" over his eyes does not qualify as not using his image. Please stop being childish and just do as I asked. It's rather ridiculous that you're trying to push me into hobbling or banning you over an avatar.

In reply to this comment by thinker247:
Not to needle, but may I have a copy of the log of complaints against my avatar? I'd like to know the exact number of complaints that were received, so I may gauge how the Sift in general has reacted to my avatar of a historical figure.

Thank you.

In reply to this comment by lucky760:
Hi Thinker247-

Due to complaints I have deleted your Hitler avatar. Feel free to modify your own avatar (as dag and I have done to make a point), but do not use actual image of a Nazi, especially Hitler, because it is offensive to others.

Thanks for your understanding and cooperation.

No, I won't furnish you with a list of complainants. And it's not just "a historical figure" but a figure that is blatantly offensive when the presence of his image can easily be interpreted as your celebrating him.

I asked you not to use his image. Putting the word "censored" over his eyes does not qualify as not using his image. Please stop being childish and just do as I asked. It's rather ridiculous that you're trying to push me into hobbling or banning you over an avatar.

In reply to this comment by thinker247:
Not to needle, but may I have a copy of the log of complaints against my avatar? I'd like to know the exact number of complaints that were received, so I may gauge how the Sift in general has reacted to my avatar of a historical figure.

Thank you.

In reply to this comment by lucky760:
Hi Thinker247-

Due to complaints I have deleted your Hitler avatar. Feel free to modify your own avatar (as dag and I have done to make a point), but do not use actual image of a Nazi, especially Hitler, because it is offensive to others.

Thanks for your understanding and cooperation.

Not to needle, but may I have a copy of the log of complaints against my avatar? I'd like to know the exact number of complaints that were received, so I may gauge how the Sift in general has reacted to my avatar of a historical figure.

Thank you.

In reply to this comment by lucky760:
Hi Thinker247-

Due to complaints I have deleted your Hitler avatar. Feel free to modify your own avatar (as dag and I have done to make a point), but do not use actual image of a Nazi, especially Hitler, because it is offensive to others.

Thanks for your understanding and cooperation.

Ambiguous, irrelevant questions, inappropriate implications, arbitrary relegation of historical figures with positions. I don't see how it is possible to "strongly agree" or "strongly disagree" with an ambiguous question so a score of |10|,|10| doesn't even make sense.

Examples:

"Some people are naturally unlucky." Is this suggesting that luck is a physical property of the universe, or that statistically some people will have very bad luck?

"Charity is better than social security as a means of helping the genuinely disadvantaged." Better in terms of helping a specific group of people, or better in terms of its impact on society as a whole? AKA "Snuffing out a fire with a baby is better than snuffing out a fire with a small rock." The baby is more effective, but it is not a good thing to use, which sense does "better" mean?

"It is a waste of time to try to rehabilitate some criminals." Does this suggest that some people can't be rehabilitated, or that some people shouldn't be rehabilitated?

"A significant advantage of a one-party state is that it avoids all the arguments that delay progress in a democratic political system." Two people necessarily come to agreement slower than one person, in a time critical issue this is an advantage. This question is trying to suggest that the "advantage" is somehow wrong or authoritarian, which is not always true.

Economic Left/Right: 3.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.08

Basically the same as blankfist.

Hat tip to Sift member 'qualm' for pointing out this site, which includes many interesting, unknown facts about many historical figures.

Part 2
Part 3

(it's not a video in the literal sense, but a BBC radio broadcast with images synced to the words)

*nochannel (because all those clips were from the '90s, when he was President from 1991 to 1999)
*worldaffairs *comedy *history (he certainly is a historical figure)

The man loved *music, didn't he. And I think it's obvious to most that he was drunk in some of those clips (he was a notorious boozer), hence *drugs too.

Yeltsin's alcoholism references (to be faithful to the Drugs Channel Manifesto):

http://www.rusi.org/go.php?structureID=S433ACCE7CB828&ref=C462F17BB5A9C3
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/04/23/defining-boris-yeltsin/
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1613579,00.html
http://www.healthieryou.com/exclusive/yeltsin.html (in which we learn he also took prescription drugs that reacted badly with booze)

fyi, Muhammad as a historical figure was a murderer and pillager, raped women, and had over a dozen wives including a 6 year old girl (Aisha bint abi Bakr in 623 AD), was a hypocrite and didn't follow any of the rules he laid upon others of the Islamic faith.