in theory, it parades as a masterful, sensible insurancer of fairness: in reality, it's just a hot mess. not a fan. never a fan.

w and eric's dad are two examples of why it is a catalyst for disaster.

in history: the EC killed Reconstruction. hastened the '08 crash. '20: led to the Turd Reich and the beer belly Putsch.

easy enough to see.

'tho tomorrow when Kamala wins* over the next GOP [won't be 'landslide' lard-doh] Gallo in the EC - the right will suddenly become aware of its perils - and had always warned us against it.

*a woman, black, and Asian. might just get US healthcare reform. 'specially after all the apoplectic fits on the right, they'll want someone else to foot their bills.

Poor bastards are going to get screwed.
Everyone in this video will die as a result of their Trump vote.
Clinton, for all her faults, desperately tried to put through real healthcare reform in the 90's. Bill told her to stop because it was haemmoraging them votes.
Why didn't she run on that, at least in these places?

Multiple things wrong with the analysis of this story. First, this place operates efficiently because of CAPITALISM. The cheaper they provide the care, the more money the owners (docs) make. Being owners, they have, IMHO, a direct conflict of interest. The more surgery they perform, the more money they make. The notion that these private stand=a=lone surgery centers do charity care is LAUGHABLE. If you don't have money, you don't get in the door. Inner center hospitals in the US have become the dumping grounds for these standalone centers. The uninsured, the unacceptably high risk patient that the standalone facility won't touch, because it might cost them too much money. The one tenet of this story I do agree with is, people need to be responsible for more of their own bill. Personal healthcare savings accounts would be a GREAT start. The healthcare consumer needs to make that decision whether seeing a doctor for a common cold is worth the visit or not. The healthcare reform bill does nothing to fix what is really wrong with the US healthcare system. And there's plenty wrong.

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

It's important to be rooted in idealism, but without pragmatism (and all of the qualities that go with it - cooperation, negotiation and compromise) there is no way reconcile your own idealism with the conflicting idealism of other factions.
If you want to create a healthcare system in a political climate dominated by business, you are going to have to make a few caveats to business. It's a foot in the door. Then, a few miles down the road you can renegotiate for something better. Same goes for foreign policy. While the use of new drone technology is troubling, it is an improvement over ground invasions, deploying troops and building bases in places they are unwelcome.
Democracy is a balancing act.

I understand what you're saying, and for the most part I'm forced to agree. But, saying the healthcare reform had a few caveats to business is like saying, "Lizzy Borden had a few issues with her parents."

The things that bother me most about Obama are the way his civil rights promises have been mostly ignored. He made no visible attempt to block the amnesty for telecom companies, indeed he voted for it. No investigation of torture and who ordered it. Increased use of the state secrets defense. In most ways as far as civil rights goes, he took the Bush line and doubled down.

I'm thankful (in some sad way) that it truly doesn't matter if I vote in this election...Kansas won't go for a Democrat for at least another 20 years or more (we'll need at least one more generation to die off, and maybe two or three). They sure aren't going to go for a somewhat-right-of-center black man.

SB still has not responded with why he thinks our healthcare reform is bad for the economy. I do not see how this can be true... Obamas healthcare reform is a crap start but at least its a beginning. A beginning to get back into the top twenty charts for healthcare. You think this is a great nation SB? Look where our leading innovation has gotten compared to European countries. Jesus would protect the people. Right wing nutters are all about brutality.

OK SB. Why do you feel that way?


>> ^shinyblurry:

I don't have anything against healthcare, and I am all for healthcare reform. I just happen to think Obamacare is a terrible bill which will have terrible repercussions on our economy, and ultimately on our health care system as a whole.
>> ^shagen454:
So tell me then SB, what is wrong with healthcare? Lets begin our conversation.

I don't have anything against healthcare, and I am all for healthcare reform. I just happen to think Obamacare is a terrible bill which will have terrible repercussions on our economy, and ultimately on our health care system as a whole.

>> ^shagen454:

So tell me then SB, what is wrong with healthcare? Lets begin our conversation.

>> ^lantern53:

Makes you wonder why so many are interested in whether Obama was born in the US when there are so many more important things to be concerned about, such as the national debt, the economy, foreign relations, why Ronan Farrow makes $115,000 a year pushing 'global youth issues' when the youth here in the US are chronically unemployed, why Democrats are avoiding their convention, Obama's 'laser-like' focus on jobs (lol), his record-setting golf outings and fund-raisers, why he won't meet with CIA chiefs or even his cabinet...
so much to be concerned about...


I'll say it again...change his skin color and name, leave his policies and actions exactly as they have been. Drop Obama 15 years in the past, and the Republicans would hail him as their conquering hero, the new incarnation of Saint Reagan.

His every action is that of a big-business Republican. His healthcare reform...a Republican-created plan. His economic advisors, from Goldman-Sachs and Wall Street, every one. His handling of the wars...nothing changed, just keep pumping money to the mega-corps we hired on no-bid contracts.

He IS a Republican, in all ways that matter. But to the Republicans, apparently the only ways that matter are skin color, a funny sounding name, and that he claims to be a Democrat. Actions are meaningless and count for nothing to them.

Propaganda.

The man is Anti American, Anti Israel and Anti Christian.
He has done nothing but harm to this land.

All his union friends are better off but no one else.
The poor and middle class are worse off and the rich are richer. Nothing has changed for the better.

Healthcare reform was to include all and cost less but the opposite is true. you will get less care and it will cost more.

Obama is a narcissist through and through. He is truly dangerous.

>> ^Diogenes:

non-issue...
justice thurgood marshall attended naacp events, and current justice ginsberg regularly attends now functions
maddow's as bad as fox news


You still going to think it's a non-issue when they are the only two justices who rule against the healthcare reform?

>> ^Lawdeedaw:

There is, in my mind, a bigger issue at hand than the tissue at hand (Sorry, Elmo in Grouchland ref...)
And that is the movement of society. Paul isn't, as I have note before, a means to an end. He is the first step in a million mile march.

Yes, and to me that march is a million miles in the wrong direction.
>> ^Lawdeedaw:
The only two things he can get done in office is 1--Change the direction of our nation's military might (Which is far more important than say Unions from a financial perspective.) 2--Stop federal enforcement of the drug war.

He could also sabotage the EPA, HHS (and healthcare reform!), dismantle the SEC, FEC, FCC, Department of Education, etc, etc, etc.

Yes, while he goes indiscriminately axing through every alphabet soup agency on his way to the FRB, he'll stop off at the DEA, probably right after the ATF and FBI, mind, but that's not an enticement for me to support him.

But for me the big deal with the Presidency is the bully pulpit. The most common complaint us liberals have about Obama is that that guy who gave beautiful, moving speeches in favor of our philosophy just completely vanished when he got sworn in as President.

Paul's whole point in running is to get more time in front of a camera to give voice to what he believes in. I doubt he'd hesitate to use the bully pulpit to the fullest. And keep in mind, much of what he believes in is complete anathema to me.
>> ^Lawdeedaw:
To say you don't trust him on certain things is odd. What would it take to earn your trust?

He'd have to stop lying! In 2008 I might have wanted him to become the Republican nominee, but 3 years of being subscribed to the Campaign for Liberty mailing list has completely disabused me of that.

I definitely don't want to help that man become President.

Oh, and not to tweak you off too much, but I agree with every word this guy said.

>> ^quantumushroom:
the slew of new taxes from the obamateur's commiecare, already beginning to negatively the economy.


I honestly try to give you the benefit of the doubt, QM. Everytime I do it never surprises me that you spew a load of bullshit mixed with misconstrued and twisted facts. I decided to check out the website you linked in the quoted text and just realized it was another partisan website that uses talking points and political thinktank terms to push a certain point of view.

The website you linked to is run by the "Americans for Tax Reform", an advocacy group that lobbied against healthcare reform. Their president, Grover Glenn Norquist, who was involved in the Jack Abramoff Indian lobbying scandal is also on the board of directors for the American Conservative Union, the oldest conservative lobbying group in the nation.

Also, the website was designed by Brayard Group Inc., a one-man consulting company run by Matt Braynard, a conservative that has made political contributions to Republicans such as McCain and Romney.

Are you intentionally spouting these partisan views or is it just by accident that every post you've ever made that had to do with politics is based solely on biased sources?
>> ^quantumushroom:
Let people keep more of their own EARNED money and good things happen. Blindly give money to government and they urinate it away.


Do you realize that the government is actually a coalition of real people? You might as well have said this:
>> ^quantumushroom:
Let people keep more of their own EARNED money and good things happen. Blindly give money to people and they urinate it away.

Actually, I agree with Mikus.

But if you are going to let some expire, let it be on the super rich.

We are babies in this country, wanting something for nothing.

I stumbled across an internet posting by a tax client (I do taxes), railing at someone because they supported the healthcare reform. He railed about how he had to pay for it.

Well, I do his taxes. I happen to know that he hasn't paid doodly squat in taxes on the federal level for several years -- in fact, got huge rebates due to having kids.

He also works for a state government -- his income is 100% taxpayer funded.

Maybe his healthcare premiums did go up. But he has paid jack sh*t to the federal government.

The hypocrisy of it astounds me.

It is a commentary on his lack of experience...

Sure Winstonfield, sure.

In the last 18 months these RADICALS...

Have you ever considered that you are the radical (or reactionary)? Is it possible that paranoid gubmint hating god fearing folks are the nutjobs? Any objective view Obama suggests he is still very much right of center, even if it doesn't fit into your worldview. It takes a certain kind of true-believer to suggest Obama is nearing communist territory - and a healthy disregard for political scaling or measurement. Ask anyone who isn't a partisan or teabagger. Better yet, ask anyone from a different country. They'll tell you. Hyperbole is so much more fun though, right?

doubling down on leftist economics, europe in shambles, right-wing economics to the rescue

Even Britain's Conservatives are wild-eyed radicals in your mind. Federal money for kid's hospices? Communist!!!

Please...
Lousy polling?

45.7% after a months-long oil spill....this man is clearly hated by the country and 'Real Americans'TM are clearly lined up against him.

I guess in your mind the following numbers are proof positive of a complete outrage on behalf of 'Real Americans'TM? Or does this suggest that maybe Americans enjoy government intervention?

http://www.gallup.com/poll/140981/Verdict-Healthcare-Reform-Bill-Divided.aspx

And what's this? Majority of Americans support the creation of a public option? Heresy!

http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepolitics/archives/185853.asp

I can't tell if you really believe all this, or just like to fuck with people. I don't know which scenario I dislike more.
>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:

gotta love the understated racism (man-child)
Incorrect. It is a commentary on his lack of experience, his spoiled & selfish behavior, and his general lack of any ability to actually deal with opposing ideas with any degree of maturity. But false accusations of racism when faced with opposition is a tradition on the left - as we've seen all too often lately.
the hyperbole (radicals)
In the last 18 months these radicals have implemented a plan to ration health care, quadrupled the national debt, established huge unconstitutional increases in federal power over finance and other industries - all against the will of the people. Bailouts, industry takeovers, tax increases, cap & tax, amnesty, health care reform, and on and on and on - all things solidly opposed by a 2/3 majority of the people (or higher). This administration and congress is the most left-wing, radical, out of step clot of extremists that this nation has ever seen in positions of power. The only people that 'like' what they're doing is the 25-30% or so of the country that occupies the far left. Conservatives, Repubicans, and Independents are roundly rejecting everything these radicals are doing - and they make up 65-70% of America.
the blanket portrayals of Europeans as poverty-stricken communists
While Obama & the other radicals are doubling down with leftist economics - Europe is doing the opposite. Greece, Italy, Spain, Britain, Germany - day after day the stories pile up about how they are turning to 'privitization' in order to save themselves from fiscal disasters. It isn't that they're poverty-stricken communists. It is that they have followed the misguided principles of leftist economics, and now they turning to capitalism to pull themselves out of the hole... All while the Man-Child is doing the opposite and putting American further in debt in a time of economic turmoil & trouble. Says something, don't it?
And the rhetorical attacks on Obama (how's his polling these days?
Pretty lousy - actually...
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_ob
ama_job_approval-1044.html
Isn't there majority support for Health Care reform? Isn't there still majority support for a Public Option?
In NeoLib-Lala-Land maybe, but not on planet Earth. The only thing there is 'majority support' for is for repealing the bill.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_conten
t/politics/current_events/healthcare/health_care_law
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20010453-503544.html
http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/03/2
8/poll-finds-low-enthusiasm-high-skepticism-for-health-care-overh/
Folks on the left need to learn a lesson quickly. YOU ARE THE FRINGE. The left likes to walk around thinking they are mainstream and popular. You aren't. Leftist policy and philosophy is radical and unpopular. And when you try to ram it down people's throats it makes you even more radical and unpopular. Leftism isn't compassion. It is cruel. Leftism doesn't lead to prosperity or tolerance. It leads to poverty and balkanization.

>> ^NetRunner:

the existence of left-wing politics is a blunt demonstration of political profitability != financial profitability.
Virtually everything the left ever wants to achieve in terms of political goals is opposed tooth and nail by industry. Even partial victories involve grassroots organizations forcing politicians to struggle with the conflict between political profitability and financial profitability.
Oh, and blankfist, it's not like Paul is giving back $100k that he'd otherwise get to pocket, that's a case of trying to allocate government funds to optimize his personal political profit so he can continue to collect his government paycheck and associated benefits (like socialized medicine!).


I understand the ideal, I just don't see it in reality at present. What has the left achieved in the past decade that is free of the influence of money? While healthcare reform is a step in the right direction, the concerns of big money ultimately won out over the concerns of the people.

I do want to believe and would love some hopeful examples, if you've got any.