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Sir Attenborough explains global deal to protect ocean

newtboy says...

A good, even *quality idea....for 40+ years ago.

It took 100+ years to mortally wound the ocean by 1000 cuts. A bandaid on one wound is not going to turn it around, and we almost certainly aren't going to do it anyway. Countries that don't buy into the plan will simply harvest most of the fish left by those who do. This only works in small scale preserves that are guarded against poaching, often by a military.

Fish stocks are disappearing at an alarming rate, many going extinct. For those species, it's too late, and they are numerous, and they are largely the fish humans prefer. Many others are in such decline fishing for them is already off limits or severely curtailed, like commercial salmon, abalone, and crab fishing in California. Even those actions have failed to revive their populations year after year.

Diatoms, phytoplankton, and other similar biotas are at the limit of acidity and temperature they can tolerate, and they are the base of the ocean food web, feeding most fish when they are fry or larvae. The gasses in the atmosphere today will push diatoms over that precipice with a massive ocean extinction following soon afterwards, and we continue to add more greenhouse gases than we added yesterday every day.

Then there's habitat loss, coral reefs and kelp forests are both being decimated by temperature rise and acidification. Together they are food and habitat for 25%-50% of all ocean fish and shellfish.

Less over harvesting of the ocean is a good idea, but pretending it alone can save the oceans is pure fantasy. The ocean has absorbed as much as 90+% of the excess heat from global warming, causing oceanic heat waves that destroy habitats both directly and indirectly. There is NO plan that solves that problem, it's well beyond our capabilities under the best conditions with worldwide maximum efforts.

Just sayin'.

Hvaldimir steal my gopro! and return it!

Michael Knowles Calls Greta Thunberg Mentally Ill

newtboy says...

What a disgusting piece of shit and outright liar.
Her achievements already outweigh his by miles...he's only managed to get himself kicked off Fox, impressively hard to do if you're right wing. Fox has apologized for his disgraceful ad hominem attacks against a child who he couldn't factually contradict....but Laura Ingram has also personally attacked her on her show, as has Trump on Twitter.

Being on the autism spectrum, she says she has aspergers, is a developmental disorder NOT a mental illness.
Being a pathological liar, that's a mental illness apparently now shared by an entire political party.
Being a fecal golem is a personality disorder he clearly has in spades.

The Carnegie Mellon study he sites said no such thing, and it's authors have stated that it's a total misrepresentation of their findings....repeatedly.
The study actually said certain produce at it's worst might be more ecologically harmful per calorie than some kinds of white meat eating by comparing things like bacon vs lettuce on a calorie to calorie instead of serving to serving rate, so 4 strips of bacon were compared to > 40 cups of lettuce. Get real.
To compound the confusion they chose a calorie poor produce like lettuce with high greenhouse gas emissions instead of kale, broccoli, rice, potatoes, spinach and wheat (just to name a few) which all rank lower than pork in terms of greenhouse gases.
The same argument holds for water usage...they chose lettuce, with high water requirements, instead of things like corn, peanuts, carrots and wheat which all use less water than all non-seafood meat.
It's also assumed the produce will be wasted at exponentially higher rates than meat, which can be preserved more easily. That may be true, but they don't include the preservatives or energy to refrigerate and/or freeze meat on the bacon side of the equation.

Of course the lettuce takes more resources if you eat 40+ cups instead of 4 thin bacon strips, just like when you compare a single fish stick to several giant pumpkins.

*rant over*

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Why Shell's Marketing is so Disgusting

newtboy says...

Almost as stupid as holding the producers of the toxic product AND the misleading or outright false information about it's hazards blameless. Because they actively misled their customers, I give them the vast lions share of blame, but maybe not 100%. There's plenty to go around.

You don't have to live in poverty to abandon fossil fuels.
Not.
Even.
Close.
I bought solar 10+- years back...it paid for itself in 8. It's lifespan is 20+-. I get 12 years of free electricity for abandoning that portion, with no blackouts, no brownouts, and no rate increases.

True, the video could be better at sharing the blame, but it stayed on topic instead, that topic being major polluters greenwashing their mage. I didn't take it as assigning ALL blame to one source, just not allowing the worst offenders to shirk all responsibility for their products.


Every one of these is the likely outcome of any anthropogenic rise over 2-3C because of feedback loops that drive us to 6-12C rise. Only the wars are likely this century, but I didn't put a timeframe on those outcomes. 140 million + will be displaced by just a 3' rise, which is all but guaranteed by 2100 under the most optimistic current projections.
That wipes out mangroves and other fish nurseries, further impacting the struggling ocean food webs. All the while it accelerates as our ability to cope erodes like the shorelines....it doesn't just halt at 3' rise.
The natural food webs on land are also struggling, and are unlikely to survive ocean collapse.

Not just from deforestation, but diatoms are near a point of collapse from ocean acidification. https://diatoms.org/what-are-diatoms. That's over 1/2....and the base of the ocean food web.


Since the IPCC (again, known for overly conservative estimates) now says at current rates we could hit as much as a 6C rise by 2100, and rates of emissions are rising as fast as carbon sinks are shrinking, they're not just a possibility, they a likelihood in the near future....but granted the hydrogen sulfide clouds are far in a worst case scenario future, far from guaranteed.

bcglorf said:

@newtboy,

Walking backwards to simplify, my main point is that simply blaming ALL fossil fuel usage on the company providing the fossil fuel is stupid and misleading in the extreme. We don't see millions of people willingly abandoning fossil fuels and living in abject poverty to save the world, instead they are all very willing and eagerly buying them and this video lets all those people off the hook. This video lets everybody keep using fossil fuels, and at the same time pointing the finger at Shell and saying it's all their fault. It's an extremely detrimental piece of disinformation.

"explain what, specifically, I claimed that's not supported by the science."
-Complete collapse of the food web
-Wars over hundreds of millions or billions of refugees
-Loss of most farm land and hundreds of major cities to the sea
-Loss of well over 1/2 the producers of O2
-Eventual clouds of hydrogen sulfide from the ocean covering the land
-Runaway greenhouse cycles making the planet uninhabitable for thousands if not hundreds of thousands or even millions of years

Sailing The Sea Of Stones

newtboy says...

Reading closely, it has the potential to be beneficial in certain ways, but there's no guarantee any of the infant coral it brings will be able to establish themselves.

I keep wondering what it's going to do to beach ecosystems in the area. I'm sure it's going to be bad for tourism, and could be horrible for fish. I hope someone is studying what it's done to the ocean chemistry.

cloudballoon said:

Reading that last sentence.... so it's a good thing right?

Florida Cop Plants Drugs At Over 120 Traffic Stops in 1 Year

Mauru says...

From what I have been told many of the smaller county's budgets are directly tied to arrest and conviction statistics.

This creates a multitude of problems.
Officers literally have to score X convictions or their buddy might "loose his job".
Similarily, the only way out of traffic duty up the career ladder might be a high conviction rate.
The sick thing is that this just the tip of the iceberg. AFAIK departments have been doctoring their statistics for so long it has widely become accepted that you literally go "fishing" once the next review period comes up (usually its more like speeding/broken tail lights, etc) and is widely viewed as common practice.
However after 9/11 a lot of departments have inflated their expenses with more equipment/personel (go look how many redneck county police deparments have their own Special Tactics Squads...) - combine that with poor budgeting and you can see where this goes...
Not all the blame can be put on the police though - a lot of it comes down to the way the review process works (i.e. convictions vs crimes prevented - go figure which is the easier statistic to use/present).
This problem really isn't new unfortunately.

Magicpants said:

What's his motive? Did he do this just so he would get credit for a bunch of drug busts?

What is the Second Civil War

newtboy says...

Ok, so you don't condemn him because you don't know what he's done since "repenting" (but continuing to swindle the poor and elderly)....but you have seen numerous videos here of him using his religious position to claim the end is here, so you need to buy buckets of food from him to survive Armageddon. He's a pure charlatan huckster who preys on the elderly and poorly educated, and always has been.
He is one of the originators of charismania along with Tammy. He felt bad he got caught, but he never changed.

I'm certain enough that 99% + of the fish flopping is a put on, faked to get adulation from the flock as someone touched by God. The rest is epilepsy or another disorder. Same goes for speaking in tongues.

What did the bible say about those claiming to know the will of God, or the date of Armageddon? He does both, for profit, not as a prophet. Nuff said.

shinyblurry said:

Please don't count my lack of condemnation in this instance as an endorsement. I am sure there is plenty to call Jim Bakker on. I know he did some very despicable (and illegal) things in the 80s and 90s. He supposedly repented of them but I haven't investigated to see whether that is true or not. I definitely wouldn't trust his theology after watching this video.

The disturbing nature of the video is a phenomenon we in the church call "Charismania". It comes from the charismatic church, which has largely become apostate from biblical Christianity by embracing experience over truth. Many of them do nothing else but follow around people like Rick Joyner to hear tell of some new vision or to have a supernatural experience in one of his meetings. I know you don't believe in the supernatural, but they are having a supernatural experience when you see them flop all over the place and jerk spasmodically. It's a real experience but it isn't from God.

I would never recommend anyone listen to anything like this. Instead, people need to systematically learn the bible for themselves so they can evaluate these sorts of claims and recognize them for what they are.

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