It sucks that this video is edited and produced to look so illegitimate and conspiracy-theoretic, because that completely undermines any credibility to me.
I've heard about these pathetic FBI entrapment plans before, but the entire tone of this whole thing is even worse.

Mind you: I'm on the terrorists side here, and I can't stomach this production.

Others mentioned the term, but how is this not textbook entrapment?:

"In criminal law, entrapment is conduct by a law enforcement agent inducing a person to commit an offense that the person would otherwise have been unlikely to commit.[1] In many jurisdictions, entrapment is a possible defense against criminal liability."

OK, the kid had the charges dropped after a court appearance probably based largely on that defense, but it is disgusting that it ever got that far.

And how did the school not only go along with it at first, but they continue to?! Any principal or superintendent for a school district should see that for what it is -- complete bullshit. Then again, I guess that "no child left behind" and the almighty tax dollars being linked to test scores has already removed common sense and human decency from the list of prerequisites among such school administration figures. Sell-outs in pocketbook and soul.

I was taught the definition of 'entrapment' as "The police can't sell you drugs, and then arrest you for buying drugs.' I don't see how the middle-man really makes much of a difference. You're arrested for doing something a police officer told you to do (undercover or not).

Also, if I went to some teenager, asked them to go get me some drugs, they did, and then we got arrested, I'm pretty sure I'd be charged with something akin to corrupting a minor.

Anyways, if we legalize the ganja, we won't have these problems.

Having a government naturally leads to asshole cops entrapping autistic children. Better burn the whole thing down!

So really the issue is people are doing something illegal and getting busted for it. The government is aware that people will routinely break said law and are profiting off it.

So the real issue is that the government is acting as a for-profit organization, right? That still doesn't negate that people are breaking the law and getting busted for it. If the drivers followed the speed limit, then the government couldn't profit off them, now could they? *smacks forehead*

See, with red light cameras there's a legitimate argument to be made. If a driver is following the speed limit, and break safely, there is a set time the yellow light should progress in order to insure compliance and safety. So for instance, if a vehicle traveling at 30MPH takes 10 seconds to come to a slow, controlled stop, the yellow should last for 12 seconds to ensure the drivers a reasonable time to notice the light change and react. (Normal human reaction time is between .3 to 2 seconds.)

So if the government sets the yellow to only 5 seconds, this creates an unsafe and unreasonable margin. And then, if the safest and more sane thing to do is "run the red" and are subsequently ticketed, then that's entrapment. That is wrong, and is something someone can complain about.

Complaining that you got caught speeding, well, boohoo for you. Don't speed. No one is forcing you to speed. So it's your own damn fault, no matter if the government is profiting off it or what video is posted.

If what you're really complaining about is that the actual design of the road triggers a natural response to travel at a "perceived safe speed" (which is a real thing) and the limit is set to a lower than needed limit, then that's something you can complain about. Still doesn't mean speeding isn't illegal.

Speed traps don't work in general. All they trigger is a momentary change in behavior and once the negative force is removed, the behavior continues. But because of the quota systems placed by "hard on crime" Republicans, real change isn't going to happen. Instead what you're seeing is a systematic failure of a rewards and punishment system that has long been proven to be ineffective and counter-productive.

Instead, if they really want to slow speeds, they should redesign the road and perhaps do a road diet, re-stripe the lanes, use bricks or plant trees (which is illegal by DOT standards btw - they hurt cars if they crash, but people don't, so it's better to hit people than trees - no joke, literally their logic.)

Or, if you're worried the police force is resorting to the quota and a misguided broken windows policy, then that's something to address. You're lack of ability to lay off the gas pedal is not a "liberties" issue or the "man putting you down."

The focus is totally misguided and the video is proof.

So speeding isn't illegal? I must have missed that somewhere. It must be like those red light camera thingies where supposedly you have a right to run a red light or something . . .

Or do you mean to say you believe they are engaging in entrapment by forcing you to speed around turns so they can ticket you? Much like they shorten yellow lights . . . because that's totally the same thing.

I can understand getting criminals to spy on their own cohorts in exchange for leniency. But asking them to investigate suspects they have no relationship with seems like a terrible practice. Even if the police don't explicitly ask for false evidence to be planted, it seems like entrapment to anyone who can read between the lines.

I've worked as a rescue boat driver at a large sailing reservoir in the UK for many years. It still terrifies me how little time you've got to get someone out of the water before things get really serious. I've had a few close calls and only one entrapment, but fortunately a very easy to fix one.

Water is a fantastic thing to play around with and my kids will be spending as much time as possible in and around it, but it's well deserving of respect. Add any sort of equipment into the mix (boat, kayak, even rubber rings) and things get worse.

You've got to be so on the ball. Look away for ten seconds and it's too long, you're probably not even going to spot the drowning person. Great to see such a fast and good response in the video!

Love this scene.... someone on a forum laid out all the layers nicely:

Tywin doesn't want anyone else finding out Arya's secret, since only him knowing about it keeps him in a power position - as such it is a genuine advice on how to maintain her cover.

At the same time it is a power play move. Since Arya is trying to hide an important secret from Tywin, she considers herself in an empowered position to him. That could be ok for a while, but he doesn't want her to get too comfortable thinking she's outsmarted him - he's reminding her that he's the one in power.

But it works as relationship trust building - Tywin is showing that he has also had a secret (= knowing Arya's secret) from her, and by revealing it he shows he's now placing more trust to her. Even further, he shows that even though she'd had a secret from him he has chosen to both ignore her mistrust and keep her secret safe from others.

The move also places Arya in subtle social debt. Tywin has now revealed a secret to her, while at the same time making sure she no longer has a chance to reveal it herself. This makes her be in social dept to him, and now her only social reciprocity option is to revel some further secret, like who she actually is.

But all that trust building also works as social "entrapment". Tywin is probably also be aiming at making Arya more at ease, so she might accidentally slip her cover and reveal a significant clue to her true identity.

This is all made more powerful by Tywin's way of revealing the secret by not directly stating that there was any secret between them. He doesn't say "Girl, I know you're trying to hide you're a highborn but you can't fool me", but instead he plays it like they've both all the time been conspiring together. This, in the surface level, places them in the same company, sharing a secret, which makes it more hard for Arya to keep a further secret (her identity) from him - especially since they are in fact now sharing the secret. Of course, both of them do clearly understand what happened, but usually humans cannot completely disconnect the surface level - the trick still works, whether you know it's a just a game. He also does the same in-grouping by quite genuinely placing them both in the same group or "clever people" - which clearly works, too, as is revealed by Arya's warm smile at the end of the scene.

But in midst of all this, it also seems he genuinely likes her company. Tywin clearly appreciates skills in intelligence and cunning, and Arya has displayed both. It also seems he appreciates the way she states her opinions somewhat frankly, it's the sort of feedback which a man in his position doesn't get often.

.. and having all of this in a one simple, small scene is why I really love the show!

I got to 03.36 and couldn't watch any more. Total entrapment.

Right, but what evidence do you have that this isn't words alone? Between 2001 and 2010 more than 2500 hate crimes were reported in Texas. 11 were prosecuted. Talk to me when we stop hearing numerous local reports per year of obviously hate driven assaults not being charged as such by the police. They claim to be working on it. Making "task forces" and "training officers" yet nothing changes. Even those actions were fought by the city.

I think actions worthy of attention attract their own. They don't come with a manufactured message with a manicured poster boy. It's people in the trenches gettin' 'er done. Having been there watching careerist politicians and clergymen take credit for my and others' efforts I'm left skeptical of those eager for the limelight. I think it's a bit naive not to be.

We aren't talking about Gandhi or MLK here. Why is every good guy Gandhi and every bad guy Hitler? This is a guy running a cop shop. People in this thread have already let on that his guarantees to occupy were BS. He entrapped them just like the rest of the cop shops nationwide. I'm not saying I don't like the guy. He's aiight as far as lawmen go. I just think he talks a bit of the talk for the camera. He makes like he's in the game. That's all. I'll judge him on his record, not his marketing.

>> ^bareboards2:

@bmacs27 we need voices in addition to action. I'm glad that he is putting himself out there via media. That is how one affects change. Gandhi wasn't silent.
Action alone isn't as strong as action and words.
Words alone isn't near as strong as action.
I say good on him.

Oh come on. That's practically entrapment.

>> ^VoodooV:

Or are you suggesting that the left just don't give a shit and say fuck'em if they don't be more reasonable, walk away from the negotiating table and commit to a 2nd American Civil War?

Mostly I'm saying the other side has already walked away from the table.

I don't really think they've quite committed to a full-on armed conflict yet, but I really feel like it's just a matter of time.
>> ^VoodooV:
When you step back and realize that all sides think the same thing about the other side, you start to realize just how absurd this shit is and that BOTH SIDES ARE FUCKED UP!!!! If you can't at least be aware of that absurdity...then we're doomed.


But we're not in some sort of mirror-image situation. When examining the policy proposals of Republicans, I generally think "bad policy that will make things get worse over time". Their view of us on the other hand is almost always some apocalyptic nonsense like "it will be the end of freedom," and we've even seen them talk about universal healthcare as if it'll be genocide.

I don't really think I (or the left generally) have all the right answers, or that our way of dealing with issues is the only way to do things. The right on the other hand is certain that their way isn't just the best way, it's the only morally acceptable way for things to be, and they are outraged, OUTRAGED that anyone thinks differently. They see their political preferences not as a mere point of view, but as if they are the natural order of things, and that people who want to do things differently are either a) fools who don't understand how the world works, or b) evil people trying to escape the consequences of their actions.

Mostly these days I think of conservatives as being in one giant cult.

Take a look at this, from Wikipedia's entry on cults:

Studies have identified a number of key steps in coercive persuasion:

• People are put in physical or emotionally distressing situations;
  
• Their problems are reduced to one simple explanation, which is repeatedly emphasized;
  
• They receive what seems to be unconditional love, acceptance, and attention from a charismatic leader or group;
  
• They get a new identity based on the group;
  
• They are subject to entrapment (isolation from friends, relatives and the mainstream culture) and their access to information is severely controlled.

People who have decided "both sides" are exactly the same will say "but the left is a cult too!" But that flies in the face of reality. What's the "one simple explanation" for everything that liberals have, and always repeat? Do they go around rejecting scientific studies, or economic statistics that don't come from an explicitly liberal source? Hell, is there any sort of strong sense of identity liberals have? Do we give unconditional acceptance to other liberals (hint: watch Cenk Uygur)?

I don't know how we get the right to change their ways, but we won't do it by pretending that the left can fix it by just changing their own behavior.

>> ^quantumushroom:

All too easy, Slapnuts.

Now deny it cause the stats don't come from SocialistWorker.org

>> ^ChaosEngine:
>> ^quantumushroom:
Drug use, rapes, murders and random deaths are in every camp, all the attendant chaos one would expect when socialists, anarchists, code pink commies and feed-the-flames libmedia descend anywhere. These protestors are not even 1% of the 99%.

Citation needed, motherfucker.



Idiots put all their links in an image, so you can't click on them and read the reports for yourself... hmm, I wonder why?? Oh, it's because there were no reported murders in the links! And no reported rapes in the links! Lesser events? Yes, a few. Completely unrelated events? Why, yes, several!

Here, for your reading pleasure, are all the links the right-wing crypto-fascist zombie airheads can come up with to marginalize the "dirty hippies" on the lawn:

Links originally from Pundit Press:

From Oregon Live: Primarily about a man who showed up at Occupy Portland, dismissed it as "an eyesore" and criticized its "lack of cohesion", and was arrested within days for starting fires. Also includes a few other accounts of minor drug posession, disorderly conduct, a weapons charge, and arrests of people for charges unrelated to the Occupy camp. Occupy Portland had a problem from near the beginning with homeless people joining the camp, and there were no services from the city or state to help them.

From Denver Post: A man who made an impassioned speech in favor of the Occupy Fort Collins camp was arrested as a suspect in an ENTIRELY UNRELATED arson charge.

From Gawker: A military veteran died of a self-inflicted gunshot, and the city used it as an excuse to halt all camping.

From Fox News: A "rash" of reports that consists of 1 accusation of sexual abuse and 1 accusation of sexual assault in Zuccotti park, 1 accusation of sex with a minor in Dallas, and 1 alleged sexual assault in Cleveland. Fox inflates this to "nearly a half-dozen" reports. The article also includes a number of unsubstantiated rumors of destructive behavior by Occupy protestors in various locations around the country.

From Komo News: A man accused of indecent exposure (completely unrelated to the Occupy movement) is arrested when spotted taking part in an Occupy Seattle protest.

From Redstate: Blantaly right-wing opinion piece which includes a number of links purportedly supporting the premise that the Occupy movement is full of criminals. The very first link is about the police entrapment on the Brooklyn Bridge. One of the links is the above piece from Komo News about an unrelated exposure charge. And another is about how Iran supports the Occupy movement (fear the boogeyman!).

From Reuters: This article is about the man shot by Berkeley police in a computer lab at UC Berkeley. No ties to the Occupy movement at all. But the Occupy protest was nearby, so it must be related, right???

From ABC News: A man is arrested for firing an assault rifle at the White House. He "may have spent time with Occupy D.C. protesters."

From The Daily Cardinal: Link broken; defaults to University of Wisconsin's Daily Cardinal homepage.

From New York Post: Article is about theives preying on the lack of security at the Occupy camp. Apparently all that police overtime is really helping...

So! All these articles, and they amount to... a few isolated issues that don't nearly account for all the numbers posted, and a couple of them are for unrelated charges where the person might have been caught in or near an Occupy event.

My overall analysis: Aside from QM being full of shit as usual, it's time to let the camps go. They made a splash, but now they are just being used as fodder for the right wing lie-machines. There are just too many unrelated crazies that come to the camps and interfere with the message. It's time to Occupy the polls, and put the energy into publicly supported legislation.

Boston: FBI Thwarts Own R/C Bomb
Another case of FBI entrapment, proving the only terrorism Americans must fear, comes from within the bowels of their own government.
By Tony Cartalucci

The United States' Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) claims to have thwarted their own "drone" bomb, in yet another farcical case of entrapment and fear mongering aimed not at ending the "War on Terror" but perpetuating the mythological, unending conflict. FBI agents apparently strung along another subpar malcontent by providing him with materials, including a model airplane, real C4 explosives, and small arms. Rezwan Ferdaus, 26, was approached by undercover FBI agents and tasked first with building remote detonation devices he was told would be used in Iraq against US troops. FBI agents went as far as falsely telling Ferdaus that one of his devices had killed 3 US troops. The grand finale was assisting Ferdaus in a spectacular, Hollywood-style attack we are told by FBI agents, would have involve simultaneous assaults on both the US Capitol and the Pentagon involving drone bombs and multiple gunmen.

Photo: Your FBI at work - sneaking around the United States, constructing drones made of toy planes like the one above, building bombs, handing out weapons and live explosives to prospective "terrorists" then stopping them "just in time" for sensational headlines to get Americans wringing their hands in fear from what Media Monarchy calls, "terronoia."

According to an AFP report, FBI special agent Richard DesLauriers claimed the sting operation proved ''a committed individual, even one with no direct connections to, or formal training from, an international terrorist organisation, can pose a serious danger to the community.'' DesLauriers fails to explain where, if not from the FBI or other federal agencies, Ferdaus could have acquired C4 explosives for his alleged plot. Additionally, DesLauriers fails to explain how Ferdaus can be considered acting as an "individual" with no "direct connections" to an international terrorist organization, when FBI agents were posing as just that, supplying him with motivation, supplies, explosives, logistics, and weapons.

If convicted, Ferdaus faces 15 years in prison for supporting a foreign terrorist organization and an additional 40 years on other terror related charges. In order to support a foreign terrorist organization, Ferdaus would have to have believed, by necessity, to be in contact with one, again undermining FBI special agent DesLauriers' statement. Ironically, Ferdaus is being arrested, held, and awaiting trial that could see him locked up for most of his life, while the US State Department, Department of Defense, and the White House itself are verifiably supporting foreign terrorist organizations, including the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG), listed as #26 on the State Department's own list, as well as Mujahedin-e Khalq (MEK) in Iran, listed as #28 by the US State Department.