>> ^messenger:
I have watched a lot of Hitch videos, and he did sweat and stammer a lot. In this debate, objectively, I think he was drunk of his gourd, the way he rambled off on tangents, and that may mean he "lost" the debate for wasting a good chunk of Craig's question time. A lot of what Hitch said was nonsense, but when he was talking on point, he didn't miss anything. It was Craig who kept missing the point that what atheists are saying is that we accept none of the theistic stories, that weak atheism is a not a strong position or a belief.

OR, if your and Craig's claim is that so-called "atheists" are redefining the word and making it mean something wrong, I still don't see what the problem is. We're telling you what we believe (or don't). There wasn't a label for what we are until it became necessary to have one that identified people with a unique faith system (a lack of one). If we're not using the word according to what you believe the original meaning is, so what. It's just a label. When most modern atheists use it, it's a shorthand for, "There is no religious faith system or description of God that I believe is correct." Note that this doesn't exclude any possibility. It only states that right now, I don't believe it.

If you don't know then you're agnostic. If you do know, then youre an atheist. There is no position inbetween I know and I don't know. It's that simple. That's why Hitchens had to admit "I do not therefore believe that God exists". The attempted redefinition of atheism simply a tactic to avoid any burden of proof.

>> ^messenger:
To your million dollar story, if you actually said those exact words to me, and as per your example, many others were in the habit of making the same promises which had always turned up empty, I would probably lump you in with the others and lose the opportunity, and so be it. If I didn't, I'd spend half my life digging up people's gardens. And yes, looking like an ass in public would be an additional penalty I'd work into the calculations.

Judging my decision as wrong based on the negative outcome is a logical fallacy, just as making a statistically incorrect play in poker, but still winning on a fluke doesn't make the decision correct. So if I make a logical decision -- the same one you made in your life many times before your numinous experiences started -- based on the information I have, it is the logical one.

My point had nothing to do with statistics. The point was how ridiculous it is to spend so much time doing everything you can to rule the claim out except to actually test it directly. Especially considering that there is nothing to lose in testing it, and everything to gain. So no, it isn't logical, and since you can pray in your room, you don't have to embarass yourself doing it.

>> ^messenger:
On another note: how can you assure me that what happened to you will also happen to me? Do you have personal experience that shows that everyone with no faith or numinous experience who tries opening their hearts to Jesus succeeds in being entered by the Holy Spirit? You never had to do so, so how would you know it always works?

What Jesus is interested in, foremost, is sincerity. Ask yourself these questions; if Jesus is God, would you turn your life over to Him? Would you serve Him the rest of your days? Would you place your entire faith and trust in Him alone? If you can answer yes to those questions, and you sincerely want to know if Jesus really is God, then there is no doubt He will answer your prayer. It may not come immediately, but it will come, and it will be undeniable.

About the third time watching this guy make ridiculously awkward sexual advances at the girl with the whistle I had to turn it off out of sympathy embarassment.

Funny, the only thing I could think of was that Cenk looked like my two year old having a fit because I won't let her have another graham cracker.

>> ^TheDreamingDragon:

I watched this video,and all I could do was imagine a different setting.
Cenk dressed as a peasant shouting up at some silk clad bejeweled Lord smirking at this comic farce of a discussion. The Lord sips his wine,and sighs as the serf rages on,because he knows that the wall seperating them is high,and the swords guarding the Lord are sharp. The Lord is indulgent,amused,and a few empty words will dismiss this minor irritation to a near perfect day. The senator smirks,because he knows nothing will be done and he can go about his business lining his pockets with whatever scorn is heaped on him,since all it really is to him is empty air.
Lords and serfs. Perpetuating this illusion of a democratic process. When the serfs Occupy someplace embarassingly public,the Lords send the Swords to cut them down.

I watched this video,and all I could do was imagine a different setting.

Cenk dressed as a peasant shouting up at some silk clad bejeweled Lord smirking at this comic farce of a discussion. The Lord sips his wine,and sighs as the serf rages on,because he knows that the wall seperating them is high,and the swords guarding the Lord are sharp. The Lord is indulgent,amused,and a few empty words will dismiss this minor irritation to a near perfect day. The senator smirks,because he knows nothing will be done and he can go about his business lining his pockets with whatever scorn is heaped on him,since all it really is to him is empty air.

Lords and serfs. Perpetuating this illusion of a democratic process. When the serfs Occupy someplace embarassingly public,the Lords send the Swords to cut them down.

@dystopianfuturetoday I really got to you, didn't I?

Yes, please intimidate me with your links and quoting, didn't work for the post above though, your links are totally bogus. This should be fun!

Let me start this off with an embarassing video of dystopianfuturetoday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

Btw, I was talking about TheFreak. To me, he assumes authority over the truth for the experts that say the stimulus was a success. So I can't possibly disagree with them if I'm not being "willfully ignorant".

>> ^therealblankman:

Here's a personal confession.
I was only 19 years old when I went up to the NWT to work at the Hudson's Bay Store (yes, it was still The Bay back then). I kept seeing signs all over the place signed "Koana/ᖁᐊᓇ", such as "Please take off your boots before coming into the break room- Koana/ᖁᐊᓇ" or "No T-Shirt, No Shorts, No Toque, No Service - Koana/ᖁᐊᓇ" Being new there, I asked one of the other staff members who "Koana" was.
I was so young and naive, and I've never gotten over the embarassment.


Well?

Here's a personal confession.

I was only 19 years old when I went up to the NWT to work at the Hudson's Bay Store (yes, it was still The Bay back then). I kept seeing signs all over the place signed "Koana/ᖁᐊᓇ", such as "Please take off your boots before coming into the break room- Koana/ᖁᐊᓇ" or "No T-Shirt, No Shorts, No Toque, No Service - Koana/ᖁᐊᓇ" Being new there, I asked one of the other staff members who "Koana" was.

I was so young and naive, and I've never gotten over the embarassment.

There are a lot of nits to pick on both sides of this but at the end of the day it is his house, his daughter, his money and time put into the laptop. Whatever solution he wants to implement is his business.

My personal take is that as long as he does have a long talk with the daughter about the whys and what needs to change as a result of this, I like his style and think it is much closer to "tough love" than "ass". She won't see it that way at first, but based on similar experiences I had growing up she will probably come to appreciate that this was a valuable and important lesson to learn. Did he let emotion get the better of him and react a bit more strongly than necessary? Probably, but that is something that he can learn from as well as a parent.


I can see the point of the other comments here, but just thought I'd be Devil's Advocate for a few here. No offense meant, this is just my take:

@Lann - sold or donated would have been OK, but IT things tend to not have much resale value. Plus the costs in time and money to format / wipe it of personal data first. His property, his decision to make.

@longde - I don't think he is upset about getting "embarassed" on facebook. He is upset that his daughter feels entitled to everything, doesn't respect that her parents have to work to provide her with things, and doesn't realize that at some point she will have to take care of herself. I think this is actually more about discipline than revenge.

@raverman - Chores without allowance is dumb? I don't see it that way. The chores that he listed for the daughter basically amount to her taking care of her own messes. Pretty important thing to learn, I think.

I meant that even if you don't especially enjoy a classic novel, you haven't completely wasted your time - you're still probably better off for having read it. But yeah, enjoyment of a book - just like music, food, and art - is all about personal taste. I've read very little Russian literature, basically for fear of exactly the same reaction as yourself. (Oddly, though, I did enjoy A Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich, which is about as depressing and plodding as you can imagine.) If you're not fond of the Russians, there are some Americans you should probably avoid too - Faulkner, Steinbeck and some (not all!) of the other early 20th century writers probably first among them.

In reply to this comment by kymbos:
Well, I'm not sure you can't go wrong with classics. I guess it comes down to taste in the end, but I found myself bored to tears with Russian classics, for example. I'm somewhat embarassed to say I just couldn't get through Crime and Punishment - it had no pace, for mine. As someone well read, this is probably sacrilege to you, but then I found the Lord of the Rings trilogy similarly overcooked.

Well, I'm not sure you can't go wrong with classics. I guess it comes down to taste in the end, but I found myself bored to tears with Russian classics, for example. I'm somewhat embarassed to say I just couldn't get through Crime and Punishment - it had no pace, for mine. As someone well read, this is probably sacrilege to you, but then I found the Lord of the Rings trilogy similarly overcooked.

I will get around to reading one of your suggestions when I'm next in the market for a book, and I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks again.
In reply to this comment by jonny:
Well, that's the thing about classics - you can't really go wrong with any of them, so yeah, A Connecticut Yankee is as good place to start as any. But it really comes down to your own preferences. Guys like Faulkner and Melville are generally considered giants of American literature, but I can't stand their stuff and would be very unlikely to recommend them. Steinbeck is another great that, while I personally like most of his work, a lot of people don't care much for it, even if they appreciate the quality.

You might find Good Reads a useful resource for finding the classics you'd most enjoy.

In reply to this comment by kymbos:
Hey, thannks for the leads. I just watched some of Midnight in Paris, and realised I'd never read the classics. Would you suggest I start with your Connecticut one?

Quote mining. Theists best worst weapon

edit: and by the way... you fail to even grasp the basic concept of what is a religion, so please, don't embarass yourself trying to pretend like you actually know anything.

When the 1% Fuck little children, the 99% cover it up.

What people haven't been talking about is that there was yet another person who witnessed the guy having sex in the shower with a kid; a janitor saw him having oral sex with victim number 8. He went back and told the entire janitorial staff what he saw. The guy was so hysterical that the entire staff thought he was going to have a heart attack. He reported the incident to his superior, and the guy told him to contact the police he chose to report it. However, there was a lot of pressure to not report the incident, because they were all afraid that they would lose their jobs if they reported the incident. Thus, it never got reported.

It's truly amazing to think of the number of people that knew about it...and how nothing ever happened. This went on for almost 20 years. Jon Stewart and so many other people say how it's inconceivable that 'they wouldn't stop it from happening and/or call the police immediately.' Really, most people aren't like that. You learn in first semester psychology that most people aren't like that. Most people are embarassed that they would be making a huge fuss on something that they don't know a lot about...even if they make a huge fuss about it through unofficial channels.

The biggest pisser is that the *university police* even knew about it, and they likely had a lot of internal pressure to keep it hush because they as well felt that their job security might be at risk if they pursue it. They even knew about a currently unofficial victim number 9 who is currently overseas in the military & can't return to be on trial.

Again, they were all afraid of losing their jobs because this asshole was so high ranking that they were afraid to do anything about it. THE 99% ARE THEMSELVES MAKING A LARGER DISPARITY AGAINST THE 1%. If you treat the 1% as untouchable in their position of power, they will be. If you demand equal treatment, then own up to it...especially right now.

>> ^deathcow:

astrology... what an embarassment

Oh man, she was cute right up until the moment she started talking.

astrology... what an embarassment

You probably got a receipt in your e-mail about my reply to your thread comment. I edited it out of your profile here because it's embarassing. I need to log out of sites like this and stop commenting on the web for a while. Maybe away from computers altogether for a while. Sorry.


In reply to this comment by Yogi:
>> ^budzos:

Hate to be a hater but I hate John Stewart's interviews.
I also hate about half of the segments from the Daily Show for how they "Jimmy Fallon" almost everything they do and when they're not doing that they feign shock at how zany their own show is. So maybe I should just stop watching it.


Yeah...do please Fuck Off.

I've never liked Jon's interviews but his show is still top notch.