Tags for this video have been changed from 'Mariachi Band, Fiesta, Arriba, RANDOM' to 'Mariachi Band, Fiesta, Arriba, RANDOM, john delancie' - edited by gwiz665

>> ^blankfist:

@NetRunner, @marinara
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism
Liberalism is libertarianism (with a small "L"). It's always meant the same.

Where on that page does it say classical liberalism and libertarianism are one and the same forever and always? Why is there a separate page for libertarianism?

Have you read the Classical Liberalism wikipedia page you just linked? How about just the first paragraph? Clicked on some of the links? Click on the link for utilitarianism, does that sound like libertarianism, or something a little more like what you don't like about liberalism?

>> ^blankfist:
I'm not making this shit up. Now, because the term 'liberal' has been coopted by both Dems and Repubs, liberalism is now known as classic liberalism, and progressives are now known as modern liberals.

The only thing true here is that you, personally, aren't making this up. It's because there's disagreement between modern liberals about who's staying more true to "classical liberalism" that makes us have to develop separate nomenclature. Personally, I'm not too worried about whether the philosophy I believe in exactly matches what someone came up with in the 17th century. I don't think philosophers conclusively settled all modern arguments about morality and the proper role of the state over 300 years ago.

For example, to really burnish my nerd-cred, the specific thing this not-DeLancie Q is talking about is wanting to commit suicide. John Locke, classical liberal, says that's not his right to do because John Locke doesn't believe in self-ownership, and thinks in fact that people's bodies, minds, and souls are the property of God, so we shouldn't do things like kill ourselves.

>> ^blankfist:
[Liberals] tend to believe in the greater good comes before the individual which is classic collectivism vs. individualism.

Now you're showing your ignorance of classical liberalism. Click the link for utilitarianism. Read John Stuart Mill. Hell, even just read the links from my previous post.

Just educate yourself for once, rather than lashing out at us like we're monsters.

>> ^blankfist:
This is all history. This isn't some Daily Kos, Glenn Beck or whatever else partisan talking point.

Yes, it is history, and you're the one preaching a Glenn Beck vision of liberalism at me. Stop being partisan and listen to what I'm trying to tell you for once.

I'm trying to explain to you what liberalism really is, not what Mises, Reason, and CATO want you to think liberalism is.

Wow the irony of your statement is astounding! You engage in partial-truth statements about another group of people in order to try and make your party look better all the while insulting them and trying to reflect your own ignorance upon them. I find it a pathetic attempt at social politics in order to supposedly benefit your group. The problem is that many people see through your little charade. Unfortunately many do not and that's what you prey upon.

Since I was previously a democrat I have a good idea what they are about. There are moralistic qualities that are admirable however they are misguided in many ways as well. I like many of the philosophies of the libertarian group however I don't agree with all of them there either. Your assumption that libertarians would prefer seeing the black man thrown on the street and refused service is rediculous and absurd. You're merely trying to play a race card that really isn't there. I find that many will use the race card when it's their only avenue of recourse. This is VERY pathetic and it actually hurts your cause when you do this.

BTW, nobody likes the Ferengi.


>> ^NetRunner:

But you are confused. You don't understand what liberals are about.
By way of illustration, I'll say it again: I believe this non-DeLancie Q is absolutely correct. I'll go even further, any liberal who disagrees with it is not really a liberal.
Where we differ is that libertarians say "individual rights" means property rights and nothing else, while liberals realize that doesn't protect our basic rights as individuals at all.
My common example these days would be the old practice of businesses refusing to serve blacks. Libertarians think that as far as rights are concerned, the discriminating shop owner has a right to do it, and has a legitimate expectation that law enforcement will uphold his right to do so, right down to physically removing black people from his store if necessary.
To liberals, the issue of rights breaks the other way.
If you are interested in learning about the political philosophy of liberals, read this and its follow-up.
If you just want to be a mindless jerk who constantly refuses to look at what he's so busy insulting, just keep behaving as you always do.

>> ^blankfist:
Libertarianism is liberalism. You statists coopted the term and made it a lie. You are not a real liberal. You're a "someone created a wikipedia page calling Democrats liberals" liberal. Therefore, you are correct that this is a general liberal philosophy. But you're incorrect when you claim I'm the one that's confused.


But you are confused. You don't understand what liberals are about.

By way of illustration, I'll say it again: I believe this non-DeLancie Q is absolutely correct. I'll go even further, any liberal who disagrees with it is not really a liberal.

Where we differ is that libertarians say "individual rights" means property rights and nothing else, while liberals realize that doesn't protect our basic rights as individuals at all.

My common example these days would be the old practice of businesses refusing to serve blacks. Libertarians think that as far as rights are concerned, the discriminating shop owner has a right to do it, and has a legitimate expectation that law enforcement will uphold his right to do so, right down to physically removing black people from his store if necessary.

To liberals, the issue of rights breaks the other way.

If you are interested in learning about the political philosophy of liberals, read this and its follow-up.

If you just want to be a mindless jerk who constantly refuses to look at what he's so busy insulting, just keep behaving as you always do.

>> ^gwiz665:

Isn't that Q if my memory serves? Q in any shape or form is awesome - but mostly when it's John DeLancie's Q.


yes but this is another Q from the continuum.

Isn't that Q if my memory serves? Q in any shape or form is awesome - but mostly when it's John DeLancie's Q.