@carnivorous
let me first start by apologizing to @pumkinandstorm for derailing her thread.i always seem to do it to her posts.poor thing must hate me.

as for @carnivorous, i usual dont respond to any other posts after i rant (unless its shinyblurry) but i feel you are worth the time.i have read many of your comments and i sense you are a decent sort.

and though i am loath to do it i shall form my response in bullet form,more for expedience than laziness.(bullet responses are a lazy form of argument in my opinion).

1.my comment was not directed at you specifically,hence my generalizations and the use of the open-ended pronoun of "you".though you were certainly included in that use of "you".if i had issue with YOU i would have formed my comment in that manner addressing YOU..specifically.

my problem with some of the comments was not with a moral conflict but rather:presumption and ignorance.your commentary displayed both.

this is not an attack on you nor is it a reflection of how i feel/think/react to you.
it is just a statement based on your commentary.
i was hoping that my rant would possibly illuminate that fact for you (and others).

please reread your commentary in regards to @shang.
notice anything?
presumption.
you presumed to know and understand @shang 's intentions,even when he stated the opposite.
unenlightened.
or ignorant.you decide.because your whole premise is based on how YOU feel/think about a certain activity and you projected that morality onto @shang and found him lacking.
self-righteous.
because @shang participates in something you find abhorrent,it appears by your commentary this gave you the right to chastise and judge him,based on YOUR morality.

2.i do not think you are a bully.i think you were being presumptuous and self-righteous.read your commentary.

3.your rebuttal was no rebuttal at all but rather a conflation.the family you used as your example as "hunters"were not hunters.we have a name for people like that "sadistic psychopaths".appears they made it a family affair.
but to conflate those sick individuals and hunters is obscene and reveals an utter lack of understanding in regards to actual hunters.

4.i respect a man who stands up for what he believes in and i would never ask you to apologize but thats not what my commentary was addressing.

i was addressing the presumptions you were making about @shang based on pretty much nothing.
and while he was responding in a decent fashion you kept sniping at him from the bleachers.

its all trumpets and parades for standing up for what you believe in but how about a little bit of respect and appreciation for someone taking the time to respond to your questions?
especially in regards to something you obviously know next to nothing about?

you cant demand respect for your morals and beliefs and then turn around and deny anothers right for the very same thing.

i mean,think about it man.
you missed out on an opportunity to understand the mindset,motivations or passion for an activity that is alien to you.

your understanding has not moved an inch because of a pre-conceived notion based on what?
a childhood memory?
a few anecdotal experiences?

what a wasted opportunity.
would you have still disagreed?
yeah..most likely.
but at least you would have understood more.
and this practice is also known as empathy.

ah well...
i hope you read this is the context it was written.
with humanity and not an attack on you.

For someone who has admitted to being too much of a pansy to kill his own supper, you exhibit an enormous understanding of what goes through the head of someone that enjoys such a hobby.

I've got a story for you. When I was a child, I lived in a rural community full of hunters. Not my family. My parents taught me to love and respect animals. We had a couple of dogs I loved dearly. If stray cats showed up at our door, we fed them and gave them attention. If an animal was injured, we nursed it back to health. In school there were a small group of boys who came from a family of hunters. They were taught to hunt from a very young age and animals had no value to them, other than to be enjoyed as a meal. They would torture animals for the fun of it...throw rocks at the birds and squirrels to score points, stomp on them to finish them off and then skin them so they would have their trophies. They would pull the legs off live frogs. Pour gasoline on defenseless little animals and light them on fire. They got off on making animals squeal and would brag about it to whoever would listen. They also bullied kids at school. They didn't feel any empathy and got a rush from inflicting pain and making children cry and scream. One day I was walking home from school and saw the boys with a gas can. They had cornered a feral cat that I had been feeding and were about to light it on fire. I intervened which led to a violent confrontation and thankfully the cat got away. I hollered for a neighbor to help which scared them off but I still ended up being beaten quite badly. When I got home, one of my dogs was missing. We couldn't find him for days. I later found his charred remains in the adjoining forest to my property.

In case anyone was wondering, my user name "carnivorous" is a long standing pet name given to me by my wife (don't ask). I am not a vegetarian, I eat well balanced meals and have a garden where we grow a lot of our own vegetables and my wife bakes bread and other baked goods on a regular basis. We do make an effort to eat less meat and find other sources of protein such as beans, eggs, nuts and cheese, but when we do eat meat we don't let any of it go to waste and appreciate the animals who lost their lives for our meal. As I stated previously in the thread, I am not opposed to hunting if an animal is killed humanely for the sole purpose of providing food and I would prefer that an animal had a glorious life in the wild, ending in a quick and painless death. The issue I have with shang is not about the hunting, but his enjoyment of the violence associated with hunting and what he is teaching his children about violence and aggression. My children have beautiful innocent little hearts and care about the feelings of people, animals and even insects and I am proud of how I've raised them.

Think me a bully if you will but I have always been the sort that stands up for what I believe in and I will not apologize for that.

My taste buds tell my brain that the various flavors of meats are akin in complexity to that of cheeses, yeasts, glandular excretions, etc. that the world's variety of free-range edibles have to provide...for sustenance per availability and desire.

I will not go out of my way to shoot game or foul unless the net return will be me not having to do it again for a long time, i.e. freezer handy, prey is assured. Don't enjoy the kill. Would rather buy it processed having been culled, sometimes got it from food pantries in mountainous regions through road-kill-clearing by the highway department.
Ducks ok, love dove, rabbit, deer and elk, bison and buffalo (thank you white man for killing-off a perfectly good food source)...just don't like pluggin' em even though it's fast, easy...hate the cleaning and dressing mostly, and not fond of killing things I don't wanna eat....oh, and @ Michaldaruk & carnivorous...I'd eat long-pig, but only if I absolutely had to and could slow-smoke it...Oh, and better if I'd known them while alive..I'd probably eat a vegetarian first...

@carnivorous
not trying to butt in on your penis waving contest (ok.yes i am).
but i think what some here are trying to convey to you are your broad generalizations.

i am sure your points do apply to some of the younger generation but in no way represents ALL of them.

i am getting long in the greys and i know MANY of my generation that expend far too much energy on:social networks,candy crush and full out gossip and complaining (good lord do they complain).

i know this is veering off topic,but its a worthy topic.

my boys are in their twenties.they all are hard workers of the manual persuasion but they are all having a hard go.
this happens and the times are not ripe for an easy run.
do you know what bothers me the most about watching my boys struggle?
the fear.
they are afraid,uncertain and unsure.
when i was their age i was fearless.

when i was their age i was working for my friend who was a lighting director for russell simmons.def jam summer fest world tour baby!
traveled all over the country and the carribean,duffle bag in tow.
learned how to coil cable right proper too.

ok.not at first.
totally screwed that up the first night.
so my buddy made me unravel every inch of cable (even the ones done right by him and others) and learned the hard way how to coil cable proper.
you have any idea how MUCH cable is used for lighting?
well neither do i but im gonna go in measurements of miles (or hours of lost sleep,you decide).

i guess my point is (if i even have one):
manual labor has its advantages but so do intellectual pursuits.
they actually compliment each other.

but dont judge this generation too harshly.
they are afraid,
and uncertain.
something we (or at least I) never really had to deal with on that scale.

and so ends my rambling incoherent rant.
think ill go fix that broken screen door i have been putting off for ages.
yall got me in the mood to fix something.

I do, but only because "nobody" = "no person". So that statement is technically true, even though computers (not people) are recording ALL phone calls, and doing speech-to-text, and looking for keywords, and those keywords being flagged as present in the metadata, and used by the algorithms. So yes, a court order might be needed for a human to actually listen to a full conversation, but it already goes way beyond the intentions of the old wiretapping laws.

Email, which is plaintext (unencrypted), should never be considered secure. The FBI used Carnivore before it was legal (Patriot Act) and continue to use electronic surveillance in every form possible. (within the secret "legal" framework and oversight)

I guess the only real controversy is exactly how many classified programs that congress knows about and approves of, and votes to renew regularly? How can the people know how their representative is voting if the ballots are done in secret?

Jesse Ventura 2016!

I like to make my own stock from my veggie peelings and trimmings, I simmer them with a bay leaf and it ends up working pretty well.

Other times I use Massel veggie stock in a tin - http://www.massel.com.au/products/stock_powder.shtml - it's hard to find ones which don't have either MSG (I don't like the chemically after taste of MSG) or palm oil or trans fats (from Partially Hydrogenated Soybean Oil for instance) but that one is pretty good.

Another nice soup is spring vegetable soup, like this one:
http://www.jamieshomecookingskills.com.au/recipe.php?title=spring-vegetable-bean-soup

Or for the left over split red lentils, these koftesi have almost the same ingredients as the soup but make a quite different meal:
http://vegweb.com/recipes/kirmizi-mercimek-koftesi-red-lentil-burgers

Finally, a hearty soup for carnivores is Scotch broth:
http://www.jamieoliver.com/recipes/lamb-recipes/scotch-broth-with-winter-root-veg

It's interesting you mention Tamari, my Dad uses gravy powder in his veggie soup Strangely, the gravy powder I have is vegan... not sure how that works, but it tastes spot on.

Carnivores, but have the diet of omnivores. Can totally see the canines and the molars for crushing the plants. Cool tongue.

Well said! this video does disgust me, and I don't think those of us in the western world eat meat that's treated *quite* this cruelly (I know there are a lot of exceptions), but from that perspective it makes sense. It's probably a good thing for folks who possess that disconnect, but for someone who already knows, it is just cruel.

As for its state, of being prior to being cut: You can persist for quite some time without guts. But does it matter? Outside of electric shock, if your nerves are still firing so regularly as to trigger reactions in your muscles, you can bet the brain is more than likely still processing pain and memory too...

In the end, I personally can't wait until that carnivorous alien race enslaves us as a new food source.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

Someone needs to tell this cat he's a carnivore.

Cat should be careful. Some animals are surprisingly carnivorous. Example: http://videosift.com/video/A-cow-eats-a-baby-chick

Cute deer and all, but a rather non-eventful video for my taste.

I'm a carnivore you idiots! WTF is this shit?

Or you could look at it from the point of view of the has-no-choice kitten, who sees a carnivore that is 20 times its size loudly making noise and big movements nearby, not spotting any decent cover anywhere near close, and instinctually thinking that if it turns and tries to run it will be snapped up as a bitty-sized crunchy mouthful in half a second, so it crams itself into a corner...

tldr; not quite sure "cute" applies.

>> ^karaidl:

This is what we should all say to vegetarians. Humans shouldn't eat meat?? Plants eat meat!!
Quick questions - Was this in slow motion? If so, I would have liked to see it sped up.


Not slow-mo at all. I have one of these, and the sequence you witnessed typically takes anywhere from 30 minutes to 4 hours depending on the size of the prey.

I know his previous band Carnivore but sorry is not my style

I miss Petrus T Steele. I don't know what the hell happened to him here... changing to Peter, singing some slow sad song, he's totally pussied out. WTF!!!!
Try listening to some carnivore, that's where he shines. This made me really diaspointed.
from Carnivore, Retaliation, 'race war'
-"This is the United States of America, and you have the right to hate, whoever the fuck you want, so let's start busting heads!"
Gotta love it.