Yes, that calf will likely be used for veal as are a lot of Holstein male calves that come from dairies. Some people don't want to see where their food comes from, thinking that animals are all cute and cuddly and should be saved is naive and unrealistic. Treating all animals with compassion and caring for them to keep them safe and comfortable is important for the farmers so that the animals grow better and are not injured or getting sick from stress.

For this calf you aren't right about the timing. My guess is that, that calf is between 2 and 4 weeks old and weighs less than 100 lbs. Veal are butchered at 18 to 20 weeks old and get up to 500 lbs at the time of slaughter. They aren't as cute and cuddly, but they are still animals with their own personalities whether funny, affectionate, or mean.

Why would someone beat their animals? It would just stress them out so the animals will get sick and probably die, losing the farmer money. And who can pick up 500 lbs to throw it into a truck? Your characterization is unrealistic and likely stems from your concern for the animals, which is admirable, but isn't based in reality.

To put some context here, this calf was separated from his mother to become veal. So it's easy to say "aww cute" but this creature is about to go through hell for somebody's sandwich.

This is what will happen to this calf within a few days: [url redacted]

He will be beaten and thrown onto the truck. He will have his head crushed by a bolt gun to knock him unconscious, and then he will be hung up my one leg and have his throat slit to kill him, and his unconscious body will choke on this own blood.

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Cameraman Oy! If Gronk flinched while burning hot shells seared his calf's, it'd be a mess.

: )

Aww, now I'm all hurt because some prick with a high opinion of himself doesn't want to talk to me anymore... /sadface

re: the "private" comment, you don't get to write the rules when you decide to take your snipes out of public view. I never agreed to keep confidences for you, and you're even more of a fool than I had you pegged for, and that's saying something, if you thought I would.

By the way, it's "your", not "you're". One would have thought an English master such as yourself would get that. They probably should have double checked those test results.

And the icing on the cake:

Sook: English from 14thC, Scottish from 19thC. From Old English sūcan ‎(“to suck”). See suck.

sook ‎(plural sooks)

(Scotland, rare) Familiar name for a calf.
(US dialectal) Familiar name for a cow.
(Newfoundland) A cow or sheep.
(Australia, New Zealand) A poddy calf.

So yeah, it's English, and you sure do suck... = D

It's been fun, toodles!

Go vegan instead https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9nNa81dSoY
IT'S EASY! Just take a few weeks to get informed, don't jump into it. Read the books suggested below.

Vegetarian is a nice thing to do, but it should be really be only a stepping stone on your path to fully plant based diet. Plant foods are hearty delicious foods like pizza, burgers, lentil shepherds pies, pastas. You just swap out one or two ingredients that are from an animal origin, add more spices/herbs and you have a filling & healthy meal. You can stuff your face, and lose weight, lose the type 2 diabetes and heart disease as well. It's win win.

What many vegetarians don't know is that the milk and dairy industries are often more cruel, than farms that just use animals for meat, and often they are also intertwined. For example, for a cow to produce milk, it must be pregnant. Where do all of the offspring go? Veal if they are male. Or they become milking cows if they are female - destined to be constantly impregnated for their short 4-5 year lives until they die of exhaustion, or can no longer produce milk from exhaustion, and turned then eventually into meat. There are plenty of videos online where a cow gives birth and the calf is dragged away by it's hind legs. They both cry out to each other for days until they're voices give out.
Also cows milk GIVES people osteoporosis because it siphons out calcium from your bones, since it is so acidic. If you measure the amount of calcium in a glass of milk, let someone drink it, and then measure the calcium in their urine, then the urine contains more calcium than what went in. And it's being leeched from the bones.

It's a similar story for chickens. Male chicks get thrown into a grinder ALIVE. Because they're no use if they can't lay eggs.


The toxic waste produced the by milk and egg industries (animal poo etc) destroys environments.

The antibiotics used to keep all of those animals of course ends up in the environment and it will eventually make a super bug which medicine cannot kill.

The job loss portion seems silly, since anyone farming animals is capable of farming plants like rice, potatoes, wheat and grains etc. Those are some seriously nutrient and energy dense foods, and very efficiently produced, and very healthy. Carbs have just gotten a bad reputation thanks the Atkins people. And well we know that Atkins died of a heart attack, he had a history of heart attacks infact. He died overweight.

It is much easier just to go "cold turkey" for 3 or 4 weeks, and become completely plant based since it means your taste buds will adjust and you'll never crave animal products again. Everyone wins, the planet, your health both physical and mental, and of course the animals.

There are plenty off great books with recipes that are familiar and hearty that can help people get started, it's easier than you think. Books such as:
The Starch Solution, Dr. John McDougall.
Negative Calorie Effect, Dr Neal Barnard.
Power Foods for the Brain, Dr Neal Barnard.
Engine #2 Diet, Rip Esselstyn.

I hope you don't feel like that I'm pushing anything onto you. I'd like to just present the facts. I wasn't vegan until I turned 33, so I'm certainly not judging or trying to give out this information in order to put anyone down or elevate myself. I'm not trying to troll, I'm not trying to out-do you. I'm also typing this with limited time, so apologies if some of it sounds frank. (The videos below do a better job than me anyway).

1) A proper plant based diet makes it 8 times less likely for cancer cells to grow. There is a reason why 3rd world countries (that have largely plant based diets due to poverty) don't get cancers us westerners have. Also the #1 killer in the western world is cardiovascular disease, in the US alone one person dies every 8 seconds from it. Which is around 400, 000 people a year.

I know you're sceptical. I was too. So here's some actual science from actual doctors, who have come these conclusions on proper peer reviewed and non biased / industry funded research:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rNY7xKyGCQ2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZtPGyLaiHE1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYTf0z_zVs03
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XVf36nwraw4


2)Vegans aren't anti-choice, they are pro life, pro planet. The actions of people eating animal products goes way further than a person choosing to eat something(sure they are typically ignorant of the consequences, as most of pre-vegans were too). When a large portion of the planet chooses to eat animal products it effects everyone, because it's destroying the planet through global warming, deforestation, dumping of animal agriculture waste and so on. It kills more animals than just ones being brutalised in cages. It will eventually kill us too. To me it seems like a bad idea to destroy the only place in the universe that we can currently live.
So by eating animal products you're really making a choice for you, for me, for my hypothetical grandchildren, and of course for the animal that almost certainly wants to keep being alive. So as a vegan I'd like you refrain for making choices that impact my life, and I'm standing up for the voiceless animals who would certainly object to your choice too.

3) As you (hopefully) saw in at least one of the videos above, there is nothing in meat which cannot be obtained from a plant source (and without all of the bad stuff that comes with meat).



Your idea of a farm with humanely raised animals is a good start, but it's just not practical, the earth isn't big enough to meet demand. It's also still highly unethical as you still kill the animals at an early age in order to harvest their flesh.

You have a picture of two dogs in your avatar. I'm sure if someone decided to schedule their lives to end early for any reason, let alone to eat them, you'd find that pretty immoral right? You no doubt treat your dogs very well, but that doesn't make it OK to kill when they reach adolescence. If I said I wanted to eat your dogs (I don't of course) then any reason you came up with applies still to any farm animals that you currently feel fine with eating.

The animals also aren't stupid and they're aware of what's going on. My grandparents owned a massive farm with cows/pigs/rabbits/chickens and crops as well. They were living very comfortable lives as far as farm animals go, but they did not like it when you approached them, they knew what was waiting for them.
When you see typical farm animals that are truly free this is what they look like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIF3BYBXZWA
They behave like pets, even cows kick a ball around.

Also cows milk is only created for when the cow is pregnant. Even if the cow is living in cow utopia, if it is getting milked then that's milk that should have gone to a calf. It was most likely artificially impregnated, and also most likely bought from someone that breeds female cows, and kills the male cows (since you only need one bull to harvest the semen).
When you really think about it, even the best treated animals are being breed and used to make someone money as the primary goal. That is immoral.



So what it really comes down to is taste. The ethics, the environmentalism, the health don't play a role in the debate at all, and hopefully one of those things is important to you, perhaps all 3.

Being animal product free isn't as hard as you think, it's as simple as swapping out a few ingredients here and there. It's not all about eating broccoli and kale. You'll still be eating burritos, burgers, pizzas, pastas, curries etc. Just slightly different and before you know it, you'll barely know the difference, and eventually prefer them that way.

And this is probably the part I found the hardest to believe myself, but once I knew about it, veganism became the easiest thing in the world. Taste is completely influenced by the foods you eat, because of brain chemistry. I thought I could never stop eating two things: cheese and chocolate. After about a month of not eating them (and yes it takes a little bit of effort towards the 3 week mark) you will break the dopamine effect in your brain and you'll never want to eat them again. I can eat vegan cheese and dairy free chocolate, but it does absolutely nothing for me these days. This is coming from someone that wouldn't eat regular chocolate, I had to have the good stuff, everyday. The cravings get pretty intense at the 3 week mark, I won't lie, but then one day you realise you've not had the cravings for several days.
When it comes to meats, even if they are well done, all I can smell is oil and blood. Eggs all I smell is sulphur. I find all of that quite repugnant and I see them for what they really are, rather than what my dopamine recepters tell me.

Now of course you can be unhealthy vegan, and eat all of the oreos, chips, and dairy free chocolate you want. That's up to you, either way the planet and animals don't care which way you go about it

For the benefit of those without a rural background, what's going on here is that a hungry calf will suck on anything that looks even slightly like a cow's teat... dog ear, human fingers, artificial teat, they all look good to a hungry calf.

Nice....
...but unfortunately, I saw that episode (Nature on PBS?) and that polar bear starved to death. It had already been swimming for days before finding land, but was too weak to catch a calf.
It didn't look like a shortage of walruses, but polar bears are having a hard time of it. I can see why too, those walruses are TOUGH. It didn't seem the bear punctured skin. The walrus, on the other hand, did, leaving the bear unable to hunt at all. :-(
Sorry to be a Debbie Downer, but that's what really happened there.

Snoop was only on the wrong side because that bear was white. ;-)

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That's fair enough. I haven't read the books but the tv version butchered this scene in so many ways.

Up front note: nobody should be surprised Oberyn died - it's GOT - it's to be expected.

That said, I wish the director wouldnt have.... Oberyn (an experienced fighter) be cool as ice before the fight just to turn into a emotional wreck a few seconds into the fight.

Don't show us the Mountain as a lumbering hulk who then, after being fully run through with a spear twice and having a calf slashed, turn into a super ninja while Oberyn makes a beginners mistake and turns into a sloth.

The director going comic book bad guys on us sucked.

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