Woo boy, this is a doozy! The fact of the matter is a video comment section is not the place to have this conversation. There's too much to discuss, too many questions from one another that are best asked soon after they're conceived, etc. I frankly just don't have the time to respond to everything you said. Don't take this as acquiescence; if you'd like to have a Zoom chat some time, I'd be down.

In any event, I'll respond to what I find either the most important or at least most interesting:

Having theories is definitely the best way to go about most of the things you consider fact (for the moment), but the fact of the matter (no pun intended) is that at some point you'll need to use some of those claims as fact/belief in order to take action. And it's just human nature to, if one believes in a claim for long enough, it becomes fact, despite all your suggestions of objectivity. It's easy to say you're a scientist through and through, but if you're really someone who doesn't believe anything and merely theorize things, I think you'd be a sad human being. But that's a claim that I leave up to the scientists.

> Yes, and I eat animals because they're delicious.

You think that's a defensible moral claim? I find that disgraceful. If you truly think your own pleasure is worth sentient beings' lives then... I don't know what to say to you. That strikes me as callous and unempathetic, 2 traits you often assert as shameful. This is my point. You sound pretty obstinate to at least a reasonable claim. To respond with just "they're tasty". You don't sound reasonable to me.

> You may be correct, but eating meat is hardly the worst thing humans are up to.

Aw, come on @newtboy, I thought better of you than to give me a logical fallacy. The fact that you're resorting to logical fallacies wwould indicate to me that either you're confronting some cognitive dissonance, otherwise why would you stoop to such a weak statement?

> I gladly discuss vegetarianism with honest people, but I'm prepared when they start spouting bullshit like " eating any red meat is more harmful than smoking two packs a day of filterless cigarettes" ...

There is a lot of scientific research (not funded by Big ___) that is currently spouting this "bullshit". What happened to your receptive, scientific, theory-based lifestyle? It's true nutrition science is a fucking smog-filled night mare considering how much money is at stake, but I find it telling that a lot of the corporations are using the same ad men from Big Cigarette to stir up constant doubt.

Again, I find it peculiar that you are highly suspicious of big corporations... except when it comes to something that you want to be true.

Again, this is my point. Take a moment, take a few breaths, and look inside. Can you notice that you're acting in the exact same fashion as the people you purport to be obscenely stubborn?

Check out NutritionFacts if you want to see any of the science. Actual science. I would hope that it would give you at least somedoubt and curiosity.

That's a true scientist's homeostatic state: curiosity. Are you curious to investigate the dozens (hundreds?) of papers with a truly non-confirmation-biased mind? How much of a scientist are you?

> I've never met a vegan that wasn't a bold faced liar in support of veganism, so I'm less likely to give them a full chance at convincing me.

This, for me, raises all sorts of red flags. That's quite a sweeping claim.

> Again, that would be long held theories in my case, and it's not hard to change them. Mad cow disease got me to change until I was certain it wasn't in America. No, I'm not recoiling. I'll listen to anyone who's respectful and honest.

So, you're willing to make decisions based on self-interest and not morality? Well, duh. Everyone does that. It doesn't sound like you had a self-reflective moment. It sounds like you merely had a self-interested decision based on the risk to your own health.

And finally, all your talk about Bob -- of course he acts, consistently, like a twat. I just don't like feeding trolls. I don't think there's anyone on Videosift who's on the precipice and would be pushed over into the Alt-right Pit by Bob's ridiculous nonsense.

> Edit: in general I agree that dispassionate fact based replies with references are better at convincing people than derision, there are exceptions, and there are those who are unconvinceable and disinterested in facts that don't support their lies.

Ironically, I think science has disproved this. Facts don't change minds in situations like this. There are lots of articles on this. I didn't have the wherewithal to dig into their citations, but I leave that (non-confirmation-biased) adventure for you. [1]

---

I knew I wouldn't make this short, but I think it's shorter than it could have been.

Lastly, I'm with @BSR; I do appreciate your perseverance. Not everyone has as much as you seem to have! Whenever I see Bob... doing his thing, I can always be assured you'll take most of the words from my mouth. [2]

[1]
Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds | The New Yorker
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds

This Article Won’t Change Your Mind - The Atlantic
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/03/this-article-wont-change-your-mind/519093/

Why People Ignore Facts | Psychology Today
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/words-matter/201810/why-people-ignore-facts

Why Many People Stubbornly Refuse to Change Their Minds | Psychology Today
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/think-well/201812/why-many-people-stubbornly-refuse-change-their-minds

Why Facts Don't Always Change Minds | Hidden Brain : NPR
https://www.npr.org/transcripts/743195213

[2] This comment has not been edited nor checked for spelling and grammatical errors. Haven't you got enough from me?

If the remarks being contradicted are not only smug they're also ridiculous, devoid of fact, racist, and or dangerously stupid (like insisting in May that Coronavirus is a hoax that's not dangerous and is a "nothing burger", and everyone should be back at work), and contradicting them with facts and references and +- 1/4 the disrespect the original remarks contained makes people vote for Trump, that does indicate they were already trumpsters imo.

Edit: It's like Democrats have a high bar to clear, but Republicans have no depth too deep to stoop to.

Trump changes Bob's beliefs daily, every time he changes a position Bob changes his belief to make the new position seem reasonable to him. He is not consistent. No other opinion matters to him.

I don't hold beliefs, I have theories. It's easy to change your theory when given new information, I do all the time. Beliefs don't work that way, so I avoid them as much as possible.

Yes, and I eat animals because they're delicious. I would eat people if they were raised and fed better, but we are polluted beyond recovery imo.

You may be correct, but eating meat is hardly the worst thing humans are up to. Killing for sport seems worse, so do kill "shelters", puppy mills, habitat destruction, ocean acidification, etc....I could go on for pages with that list. I try to eat free range locally farmed on family farms meat, not factory farm meat. I know the difference in quality.

I gladly discuss vegetarianism with honest people, but I'm prepared when they start spouting bullshit like " eating any red meat is more harmful than smoking two packs a day of filterless cigarettes" (yes, someone insisted that was true because they didn't care it wasn't, it helped scare people, I contradicted him every time he lied.) The difference is, I could agree with some of their points that weren't gross exaggeration, I agreed that excessive meat eating is horrible for people, I agree that most meat is produced under horrific conditions, I would not agree that ALL meat is unhealthy in any amount and ALL meat is tortured it's entire lifetime because I know from personal experience that's just not true. We raised cattle, free range cattle, in the 70's. They were happy cows that had an enjoyable life roaming our ranch until the day they went to market, a life they wouldn't have if people didn't eat meat.

I've never met a vegan that wasn't a bold faced liar in support of veganism, so I'm less likely to give them a full chance at convincing me. The fact checking part of my brain goes on high alert when talking with them about health or other issues involved in meat production, with excellent reason.

Again, that would be long held theories in my case, and it's not hard to change them. Mad cow disease got me to change until I was certain it wasn't in America. No, I'm not recoiling. I'll listen to anyone who's respectful and honest.

Here's the thing, Bob consistently trolls in a condescending, self congratulatory, and bat shit crazy way. Turnabout is fair play.
As the only person willing to reply to him for long stretches, I know him. I've had many private conversations with him where he's far more reasonable, honest, willing to admit mistakes, etc. (Something I gave up when he applauded Trump lying under oath because "only a dummy tells the truth under oath if the truth might harm them, Trump winning!") When someone is so anti truth and snide, they deserve some snidely delivered truth in return. Bob has proven he's undeserving of the civility you want him to receive, it's never returned.

Bob does not take anything in from any source not pre approved by Trump. I've tried for a decade, and now know he only comes here to troll the libtards. It doesn't matter if you show him video proof and expert opinions, he'll ignore them and regurgitate more nonsense claiming the opposite of reality. He's not trying to change minds, in case you're confused. He's hoping to trick people who for whatever reason refuse to investigate his factless hyper biased claims and amplify the madness. That he comes here to do that, a site he regularly calls a pure liberal site (it's not) is proof enough to convict him of just trolling.

Trolls deserve derision.

I spent years ignoring his little jabs, insults, derisions, and whinging and trying hard to dispassionately contradict his false claims with pure facts and references, it was no different then.
While privately he would admit he's wrong, he would then publicly repeat the claims he had just admitted were bullshit. When he started supporting perjury from the highest position on earth down as long as they're Republican but still calls for life in prison for democrats that he thinks lied even not under oath, he lost any right to civil replies imo. He bought it when Republican representatives said publicly in interviews that they have no obligation to be truthful with the American people, and he applauds it and repeats their lies with glee.

Edit: in general I agree that dispassionate fact based replies with references are better at convincing people than derision, there are exceptions, and there are those who are unconvinceable and disinterested in facts that don't support their lies. How long are you capable of rebutting them with just fact and references when they are smug, snide, insulting, dangerous, and seriously delusional if not just purely dishonest?

Rebuttal?

It's really hard to listen to this guy where he freely mixes in a few facts with a ton of bold face lies.

He works really hard to hit all of the Trump talking points with full on lies and misdirection.

As a populous we need to have a little dignity and stop listening to people that tell verifiable lies non-stop. If they can't keep from telling lies to make their point then their point isn't worth hearing.

The very few good points this guy makes are slathered in so much oily misinformation it is really painful to try and hear him out.

Just absolutely wrong on every point except the post office....but consider instead of giving them the funding needed to address these problems, Trump has withheld funding for even normal operation and his appointees have already removed 10% of it's capacity, when they need to be expanding it to hold a fair and open election according to Whitehouse and CDC guidelines.
What happens when it takes 4 weeks to deliver ballots because of the intentional slowdowns and many aren't delivered before election day? Tens of millions are disenfranchised directly because of Trump's actions. A vote blocked is a vote STOLEN, so you are standing with a plan that cheats tens of millions out of their vote unequivocally in a stated plan to avoid hundreds of assumed fraudulent votes from being attempted (but likely caught so not cast).

Trump should want to fund it because holding a fair election is his duty, but he's never fulfilled a duty in his life.

Um...Covid absolutely 100% is a legitimate reason for vote by mail according to health agencies that determine such things (CDC, HHS) ..as if any reason is needed, it's the norm in many states.
Vote by mail is not an excuse for covid, that actually is BS....but I think you meant to be contradicting the former. It's a pure lie that it's more fraudulent than in person voting, another bold faced lie Trump told you.

You can't vote outside. Social distancing while voting is going to take the lines that were 5-6 hours long in places and make them twice that long. Thousands of polling places can't be staffed because most pollsters are elderly retired people, in the most effected group and totally not safe to work, (especially since it's a given that dozens of moronic denier Trumpsters are going to show up at every open polling place unmasked insisting it's their right to vote while spreading disease and forcing their way inside), so many are being closed. How do you think in person voting could possibly work given those facts?

If your ilk would mask up, we could do that, but you all have extended and exacerbated the pandemic so badly, and in their brainless worship of Trump still claim it's ALL a hoax, never even existed, and still won't wear masks because they block oxygen and suffocate people. Because of Trump's horrific leadership, in person voting is a no go for most without risking their, and other people's lives.

Your choice for president is failing at even holding an election...not surprising, he's failed at literally every job a president has, and our nation has suffered greatly, lost international status, tens of trillions, trade, respect, jobs, and over 160000 lives directly because of Trump's leadership....and every problem I listed is getting worse daily as he floundered.

What has he done successfully in your mind besides the tax cut he gave himself, doubling the deficit? Not the economy, not employment, not safety, not health, not trade, not deals, not strengthening ties with allies....so what?

Lol.
And who is it that's actually USED vehicles in attacks again?

I'm shocked they admitted it was so they could impound and illegally search legally parked cars....they're really getting bold these days.

Legislative aide - Coordinate and attend meetings. Assist with the drafting of speeches, press releases and legislation. Conduct and summarize legal research, research studies and constituent surveys.
Her position - mail clerk and supervising interns.
Nowhere near the same thing. Like the receptionist putting "VP of communications and publications" as their title.


91-94 is up to 4 years, she worked for him for 9 months. That's a 3.25 year exaggeration, not one, which would itself be more than doubling the truth.

Um...you think?! Yes, it's bad when your college says you didn't graduate, and a lie when you say you did. I don't think her cases would all be under review over a database problem.

Her current accusations ARE brand new, never coming to light in 30 years of Biden running for offices, including VP. They absolutely did totally pop up out of nowhere at a suspiciously convenient time in politics....and are bat shit crazy, forcefully fingered in a public alcove in the public halls of congress. Get real.

Edit: the long and short is she's not credible, at best she's shown a willingness to hyper exaggerate if it benefits her, more likely she's a bold faced liar who may have been paid to make accusations.

Liar.
Outright bold faced moronic liar. Especially dumb lies too. No one is buying your insane bullshit stupidity. Only your ilk believe Trump over their own eyes, ears, and videotapes.
Everyone else on the planet knows Democrats closed their states first against Trump's wishes, Democrats took it seriously from before case 1 in America, Trump called it a hoax or at worst a cold until late March if not later, Democrats pushed for funding and federal help for ppe, hospital beds, equipment, personnel, and funding, Trump repeatedly said they were on their own, find it all on the market, then directed agencies to intercept the equipment they found, turn it over to federal resellers for free, have them sell it back to desperate states at 1000% markups from pre-pandemic prices, then inform the feds so they can intercept the shipments and repeat the process.

Your lies are getting lazy, dumber, and reek of desperation. I almost feel sorry for you....almost. It's hard to empathize with a lying troll though.
2021-25 are going to be the death of you, with congress and the executive under democratic control and the populous wanting your party gone.

I know the sketch is meant as a joke.
But I love anyone who can be confident about making strong decisions and standing by them. Even when you put yourself out on a limb. Have the resolve to put yourself out there, make bold statements and claims, and hold them true for yourself. This is how you win me over.

(as long as it's not something against others like racism - this has the opposite affect) lol

Bob...
Tell that to the couple murdered in cold blood in Houston.
The entire force tried and tried and tried to lie about it, up to and including the police chief and police union president threatening the entire city with murder on television if they don't support the police....police who had just murdered an innocent family and boldly thoroughly lied about it to cover their murders.
Where were the good cops there? Not a single one in the entire city came forward with the truth, they banded together and used their lie as an excuse to ignore more laws and become more threatening and aggressive to the public. This continued well after the truth was uncovered, numerous lies and fabricated evidence was offered publicly, only the media investigation exposed the tapestry of lies the whole force produced together.

So...where are all these good cops you claim exist? Show me 5 cases where cops turned in criminal cops who were then convicted of serious crimes and the whistle blower remained on the force. You simply can't, they don't exist.

Do you think not all MS13 are bad? Some haven't murdered or pushed drugs, just stood with and protected their brothers who do...those are good people, right? *facepalm
Bob, all cops are bad....some worse than others but they're all in a criminal conspiracy to obstruct justice.

@bobknight33
Did you mean for your title to be trolling people?

Otherwise, I believe you may have a comprehension issue.
Not clapping had nothing to do with people not supporting issues.
They are not blindly clapping to things they know are lies. These are the people that are NOT SHEEP. They actually know a bold-faced lie when they hear it. Trump is mixing up the truth on purpose, and he's not fooling people - well, maybe he's fooling you.

Indeed....
In this interview Neal Barnard admits he exaggerates and lies to get people to consider going vegan.....
https://www.livekindly.co/dr-neal-barnard-accused-cherry-picking-studies-netflixs-health/

Edit:
Far from the first time, I have yet to hear a vegan doctor who wasn't a bold faced liar about the science. One claimed the WHO had declared eating moderate levels of red meat more dangerous than smoking cigarettes when in fact the study he cited was for high consumption of highly processed cured meats and only said they appear to be carcinogenic and need more study, they did not make a comparison with cigarettes or rate the danger levels, but vegans still make that false claim based on these "doctors'" exaggerated claims because it seems being vegan rots your brain.

No Bob, you don't need to keep crying "but I love him"....we know you'll gladly ignore any foibles he has while viciously attacking others for the same, or similar but lesser crimes he claimed they were guilty of.
We know you allow him to bold faced lie to you about anything.
We know you're ready and willing to repeat any stupidity or nonsense he feeds you.
We know you're 100% prepared to accept his word over your own eyes, ears, or memory.
We know you're prepared to claim financial and civil gains even though reality disagrees.

You really don't need to keep telling us you love your lying fraud of an abuser....we know.

Do I need to remind you about Carter again? A politician who was never two faced or untruthful. Please, please don't display your stupidity by attempting to attack his undeniably excessive levels of intelligence or morality. Dumb people don't design nuclear submarines, immoral people don't command them with honor....they get phantom bone spurs that miraculously disappear the minute the draft ends so they can screw the wives of their honorable associates while they go to war.

Good, if Trump is really done playing politician, that's great for all of us. I hadn't heard he had quit.
It's just asinine to claim the person holding the most powerful political position in the world isn't a politician. You might as well claim he's not a fraud, not a thief, not a philanderer, not a business failure, not a hypocrite, not immoral, not a misogynist, and not dishonest while you're denying reality.

As noted above, your video evidence and your claims have nothing in common.

What "facts"? Your opinion? That's just, like, your opinion, man.
Edit: Facts that Trump said aren't facts? That's the best indicator today that they are factual.
I'll take the dozens of convictions and guilty pleas based on those facts as proof enough they are true and well vetted. People don't agree to years in prison based on nonsense that's been proven false....especially not people with money like these people have.

As the exalted leaders #1 choice for (mis)information that becomes policy and platform for the right, and part of the right wing triad ministry of truth, you simply can't leave Jones out of any media discussion, particularly one where someone paints the BBC as having an (anti?)American political bias, and not just a bias for reality.

Yes, it's all fine and dandy. Any investigation of an investigation by the subject being investigated (or their proxies) is patently ridiculous and a clear political ploy to satiate your need for corroboration of what you want to believe, fact based or not. They knew they couldn't write the investigation's findings, nor could they accept the truth being made public, the only option left is to discredit the investigation, something they've been trying since before it began. I find it incredibly sad that so many are so thoroughly indoctrinated that you buy that obvious, self serving ploy to discredit the entire FBI and intelligence community in favor of a consummate narcissist and convicted fraud's self serving and baseless stated opinion about himself.
I guess you believe mob bosses who claimed they were framed and are just legitimate businessmen too, tapes and other evidence of them planning crimes and committing them are nothing in the face of their denials, right?

Yes...yes he did say that about central American immigrants....are you just parsing the fact that he didn't specifically say EACH AND EVERY ONE IS A RAPIST, while not acknowledging what he did say...."They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."? Strictly read, he's saying they're all rapists, but some are good people anyway....just like some Neo Nazis are good people in his opinion. You're attempts at rectifying oldthink (rewriting history) only work with people who have no memories. I watched him say it and I can remember yesterday without big brother telling me what to remember.

I can't dive into your paranoia to decipher what you're feeling. If you can't hear "accosted" and gather they likely arrested her aggressively and instead read that as some hidden agenda to.....well, you didn't articulate what the motive would be...., perhaps reading comprehension isn't a strong suit.

ac·cost. /əˈkôst,əˈkäst/ verb
past tense: accosted; past participle: accosted
approach and address (someone) boldly or aggressively.

I disagree with your characterizations. Considering the constant vitriolic, dangerous, demonizing, now blatant terroristic threats from Trump directed at all non right wing propaganda outlets that won't spread his propaganda and stroke his ego, amplified through his right wing minitrue and interpreted by his base that he's trained to hear his dog whistling, and in the face of the same, they display a mature, composed, restrained, unbiased, and inhumanly patient character, including the three you listed.
Yes, they are mature and reasonable adults under constant attack from a serial con man/cult leader and constant threats against their lives, not one Fox host, Jones host, or OAN host is 1/4 as mature, honest, or unbiased as the worst you can mention from CNN.....and no, CNN is not my preferred news source, but they are infinitely better than anything the evil trinity of right wing propaganda produces, including the totally dishonest smear campaign against all news organizations that you are part of now, willingly or not.

That's what the ministry of truth does. They get you to repeat their lies until you believe them enough to be the enemy of anyone still believing fact and reality. It clearly worked.

Btw, still waiting on the names of CNN reporters who have gone on the campaign to stump for the left, like Fox hosts did on the right. You insanely claim CNN is more biased than Fox, you should be able to name at least 4 off hand then.

Screaming "I'm brave" while white knuckling your gun and pissing your pants over the brown menace doesn't make you brave, not even if you highlight it in bold.

Not just make in in all caps and in BOLD