Competition? Seriously what competition is there?

2 things are clear
Clearly your anti Tesla.
Clearly you truly dont know much about the EV market.

Tesla is dominating the EV space.
Tesla has 8 quarters of growth.
Growing roughly 20% per quarter and about 70% YoY
2021 seen 84% growth in car sales.
Demand is a 6 month wait.
Tesla has sold 930K vehicles in 2021.
2022 Fremont and shanghai will make 1.2Mvehicles alone.
Giga TX and Berlin coming on line soon should add 500K vehicles.

Ford / GM do not have the capitol to make EV and ICE.
Layers of management and union demands will keep from a rapid necessary to EV.
Ford / GM have each have over 100 Billion in debt
Factory closing and chip shortages causing more Ford /GM losses
Ford / GM probably go under unless bailed out.
Ford/ Gm lost sales and Tesla grew sales.

Toyota also dragging their feet.
VW is the only company seems to be moving to EV in a substantial manor.


As you say high demand / low supply is some how bad. This is good place to be. Its a supply issue . Tesla is addressing that.

Saying Tesla doesn't pay taxes. false argument. Every company pays their taxes. If you don't like the amount then that's a government tax policy issue.

FSD is still in beta form. It is not a final product. It is pretty fuckign good as is.


Elon being pro corporate anti tax is what you would expect.
Im sure Apple, Facebook, Google are all in this same camp.
Far right? I dont know about that.

I have a friend who is very, very, VERY rich. Years ago, he married a total psycho chick, realized his mistake, and bailed out of that marriage a couple of years later.

He told me later that after the dust settled, he did the math and it worked out his marriage cost him about $2,500 an -HOUR- in immediate losses. When he worked out the long term costs in investment appreciation, compounded interests, real estate values and a slew of other "sundry" losses that alone were worth more than we'll see in 10 lifetimes, he would have needed to add another zero.

It gets better/worse.

He plays online poker and is very good at it. Just for fun, he went into business with one of the early online poker site's founders and helped write the security for the site. Because of a bunch of legal shit, he was paid in BTC, which was selling for about $50 a "coin" then. His now-wife freaked the fuck out and made him sell it. His estimate of THAT little loss, according to him (he told me this when BTC was at around $40k) would have been enough to offset his divorce settlement by a factor of about 2.5.

Do the math.

Why. Why are hedge funds allowed to play in a room full of gasoline and the "stupid public" isnt?

Neither of them are any better than monkeys with typewriters.

If a hedge fund can and does promise to buy back 140 % of some stock then it should be held to that promise and not bailed out.

This mostly boils down to information not moving freely in a "free" market and people making decisions without access to or understanding of vital information. Well theyre fucked.

You seem to allude to more regulation being necessary but its mostly the big operators on the market that need to be better regulated. Blaming the public is a side step.

Sorry to be the little grey raincloud on this Hate The Hedges party, but you might want to understand the implications of what just happened

Y'know that fund that's getting all attention, Melvin Capital? Yeah, fuck them, right? Fuckin' shorters all shortin' and shit -- they played, they paid!

There's a reason they were bailed out and with all due haste.

Here's the issue: they were VERY good at the shorting game. So good that they actually had to turn away business. They made money like horses makes shit. When clients couldn't get in at Melvin, they went elsewhere. That opened the door to a lot of other firms basically mirroring exactly what MC was doing, which included shorting the fuck outta GME.

Fuck those guys too, right? It's their money, so why should I care?

Let's go back a few year, shall we, to the glorious chapter in finance and economics that was the 2008 Crash. Remember when Paulson lost his shit because he realized that in about 36 hours, the basic system called Western Capitalism was going to shit the bed; the bedroom; the whole house and pretty much every surface above the ocean within a planetary radius? This is sorta like that. Only worse.

The thing about short squeezes is that the losses can be infinite, and that's exactly why WallStreetBets did what they did. They knew if they bought and held -- diamond hands -- the stock would have to rise as the shorters had to cover their bets. Melvin Capital and a shit-ton of other, smaller firms had to do that and ran out of liquidity long before GME was even at $50. For every share of stock they shorted, they need to cough up another share at a higher value -- and they HAD to actually have the higher-priced share.

And here's where things get VERY ugly.

Shorting GME was such a sure thing that a huge number of shorts were placed. In fact, more shares of GME were shorted than actually existed. Oops. But hey, SURE THING, BABY and what's the worst that can happen?

Yeeeah, y'see where this is going now?

So these firms, not only are they broke, they don't have the shares, either. They need to come up with shares, pronto, at any price, because contractual obligations are a motherfucker in the finance world. But again, more shorts than there are shares and the people who have the shares, WSB and 4chan's /biz/, aren't letting them go. The longer they hold, the higher the price will go as short after short faces having to cough up the shares they borrowed.

A lot of people are about to lose a LOT of money -- the kinda losses that have so many zeros attached that looking at the number bores the eyes.

Back to 2008: the reason the whole world almost started Mad Max LARPing back then is that a narrow number of highly-important financial institutions were a wee bit thin on liquidity because they were having to pay it out by the boatload. That's bad. What would be better is if risk were more distributed, and how could that little plan POSSIBLY go wrong? Maybe a Black Swan event involving a huge amount of money that needs to be paid out by all of them due to this annoying bird.

That's where we are now, but no one even remotely knows what that figure is going to be. Again, (potentially) infinite losses multiplied by 150% times the number of shares actually available, multiplied by the dogshit risk factor on the loans and the leveraged payouts -- your best case scenario might be a loss of about $500 billion. Someone has to come up with that money, be it the Fed or other banks/investors, but that latter group has to come up with the money themselves, which is generally accomplished by selling profitable holdings. We all know what happens when a lot of people have to sell, right?

I always wanted to live in interesting times, thus proving what an utter fuckwit I am.

If you don't understand why Melvin Capital was bailed out and bailed out fast, you're sleeping far better than I am.

Newt, you don't know the half of it. The reason they need a bail-out? Two words, my friend: stock buybacks.

Back in '16, good ol' AA was ~$20 BILLION in debt. Yes, their DEBT was larger than the GDP of some nations. Bad situation, right? What to do, what to do -- HEY! I got it! Let's spend NINE FUCKING BILLION on stock buybacks. In doing so, they turned $5b in reserve cash into $550 million. Trump himself couldn't have fucked this up worse if he tried.

It gets worse. Here, I will quote from Forbes:

"The numbers boggle the mind. American Airlines spent nearly three times its current value on stock buybacks over the last six years."

It gets even worse from there.

Over the last ten years, AA spent ~$13b on stock buybacks. You know what their free cash flow was over the same 10-year period?

-$7,935 million.

That's not a typo. Their free cash flow, unique among all major airlines, is NEGATIVE. The number on their -negative- cash flow is greater than the -positive- cash flows of Jet Blue and Alaska combined.

Guess where that money went?

Shareholders? Nope.
Employees? Nope.
Improvements to the business as a whole? Nuh-uh.

If you guessed "The CEO's pocket", you win a $4 Snickers bar. If you also suspect that any bailout will end up in the same place, I'm throwing in a free Baby Ruth or an Abbazabba (your choice).

That's right: your tax-paying American ass is going to bail out these cocksuckers not to save jobs -- no fucking chance in Hell that's going to happen -- but to make Doug fucking Parker, an asshole of utterly legendary proportions who made $11.5 MILLION in 2019 thanks to those buybacks, even fucking richer.

There's not enough Prep-H in the world to compensate for that level of ass-fucking. And you WILL smile when you're getting raped, otherwise it's getting stuffed in your mouth afterwards.

(BTW: when they started this financial cocksuckery, AA was ~$60 a share. On Friday, it closed just below $13. Dough Parker still made money. The funds, including pension funds, who invested in AA @ $60? Not so much.)

Why aren't (some) officials questioning the pension liabilities? In many cases it could be because Republicans at least tend to let the pensions go bankrupt then allow agencies off the hook for the retirement packages many worked a lifetime to earn, so why worry? Oddly, when it's multi million retirement packages for CEOs of companies being bailed out, the same people insist it's a contractual obligation that can't be ignored.

I watched this live since it was in my neck of the woods and it got even crazier. I can't find the footage but this wasn't the only innocent car they followed. There was a couple that unknowingly gave a ride to the female passenger who bailed out of the suspect car.

Research better...$7.5 Trillion+- not $10, and mostly due to lost revenue and excess spending from the Republican caused depression. (Caused by lax and removed bank regulations, then bail outs by Bush with federal funds). Also, let's not forget the Iraq war, kept off the books by Bush, then added to Obama's deficit numbers.

Where was I? Here, stating it's ridiculous to raise the military budget by $100 Billion/year (what Republicans call a huge cut to the military) when our economy is tanked.

By percentage, republicans have consistently raised the deficit/debt more than Democrats, who actually lowered it under Clinton. Reagan was by far the worst.

I think by "altimate" what @bobknight33 really meant to say is "alt-right" - AKA the bullshit propaganda he sees on Alex Jones etc.

I like how, massive scandal, obstruction of justice, possible treason, like god-damnit, it's possible that people at the highest levels committed outright TREASON and Bob's worried about semantics. Where was your sense of moderation for Obama, Bob? You were ready to hang him for enjoying spicy mustard (I know, that's so much more un-American than selling your soul and country to the Russians so they can bail-out your bankrupt ass like Trump, right?

So, I'll stop asking if you're getting tired of winning. Joke's growing old. Instead, I'll ask. Do you think this is winning? Do you think America is winning under Trump? Do you think Trump is winning? Do you think Trump makes your life better and Obama made your life worse?

I'm just curious to gauge the level of your delusion here, but I'd genuinely love to hear your answers. Not that I think you're brave enough to admit the truth, but it would be nice to get it from you at least once.

1:10 - BAIL OUT MAN!!! BAIL OUT!!!

I was educated in chemical engineering (bailed out of a PhD). Currently I work in embedded software.

Unfortunately communism is ran by *government* elected leaders that always stay in power and has the same flaws that humans have so that system will also be crap and there will be no incentive to change for the better.

At least with competition at the very basic level you have to change or go bye bye.

Bail outs makes companies think they can continue to get away with bad stuff and in the GM bailout all the money went to the union leaders not even the workers benefited.

...actually, after thinking about it, Oliver has just forced the federal government to bail out those debtors. Their debt is now shared between all Americans.