Favorite songs:

Mercy Seat,
Solitary Man,
Hurt,
Hung My Heart,
Personal Jesus,
Don't Take Your Guns to Town,
Were You There

Not one "Thank You" from the kids after all that work to bring a little joy and adventure into their little hearts.

You really are a coward. You're afraid their going to take a piece of your pie. Just WHAT do you think you actually have anyway?

What you need is a heart, courage and a brain.

You may think you are in America but, in reality you are in the state of confusion.

Now put your clothes back on and get back in the house. You look silly exposing yourself like this.

I NOTICE YOU COMPLETELY IGNORED THE QUESTION OF HOW YOU GOT IT ALL SO BACKWARDS.

ANOTHER TOTALLY FAILURE BOB. RED HERRINGS AREN'T ANSWERS.

What? That's insanity. Are you saying the baby is fully formed at the instant of conception!? The train is fully formed before it rounds the bend, the pre-baby isn't. If you remove the visual obstruction the train is complete and functions fine, but not the "baby".

If I use your non logic, if I invest in a stock, I'm instantly a millionaire because that stock might make me one in the future. How about a loan...I'm going to be good for it!

The train doesn't exist before it's built. The baby doesn't exist until it's born. If you hear a clank on the tracks, it doesn't mean the train is built.

Anyone saying there's a heart at 6 weeks is a liar. As you said, no heartbeat without a heart, so anyone claiming there's a heartbeat at 6 weeks is a liar. Obstetricians and gynecologists and their national organizations agree, no matter what your friends the ultrasound technicians think.

When they write they observed a heartbeat at 6 weeks (can't be heard until 12-22 weeks when chambers and valves are formed) , absolutely they are liars. I'll gladly tell any you wish, there's no heart, there's barely a tube. It's not a functional heart until it pumps, which it never does at 6 weeks, or even 10.

Drs who hear it on the Doppler are listening at >12 weeks along, so they're stretching the truth, but not totally lying. By then, most heart structures exist, but aren't ready to pump yet.

Like I said, you got it backwards, you see the twitch in a "tube" at +-6 weeks, you HEAR it after 12-22 weeks on Doppler. You should know that if you really had the experience you claim....but you don't, so.....

Want to try again, this time address the question, if you are so experienced, why don't you know you SEE a twitch 6-18 weeks before you HEAR a PULSE? Why do you think you HEAR it first?

I'm going to expect another day or two of silence, followed by claims you answered this already, followed by another non sequitur argument ignoring the question of WHY ARE YOU SO WRONG!?

If I use you useless logic......
When I hear the train from from around the bend and still un seen you are implying that the train does not exist unless I see it.


The only liar is that 8 inches between you ears.



The 40 or so OBGYN sonographers that I service over 19 years are are correct. They hear the heart beat. Can't have it unless you have one.

When they write in their report that the heart beat has been observed ( by sound) are you calling them liars?

If so they you are implying that the DRs who read the report and look at the doppler and confirm the heartbeat and then tell the patient this news, are wrong also?




Like I've said before You way the fuck out of your league on this.

You outright liar. (Nothing new)

Since you claimed you HEAR a beat BEFORE it can be SEEN, which is 100% backwards and something someone in the field should definitely know, you've been silent on that thread, hiding from your mistakes as usual.

Yes, facts are correct, you just didn't offer any. You gave your opinion based on ....who knows what, not medical science. Not reality.

You did not prove a thing, you rambled, listed your alleged career, claimed knowing doctors doesn't make you one, then said you know what your talking about because you know lots of doctors, etc. You gave no citations or backup for your claims, that there's a heart at 6 weeks, claims which I contradicted with multiple citations from medical sites, including instructions for the Doppler that contradicts you too.

You were proven wrong, and as usual you just hid from the thread. Try again.

And Kevin Bacon was in Footloose…

Lol....and we're supposed to think you know about it? Then why don't you? Why didn't you just read instead of eating more shoe? (By putting your foot in your mouth again)

"Beating occurs earlier, at the very end of the fifth week or at the start of the sixth week, when the heart is immature and lacks most of its identifiable features, including its iconic chambers. The heartbeat shows up around this time or shortly after as a flickering motion on an ultrasound. Only later, after the 10th week or beyond, is a heartbeat audible with a Doppler fetal monitor."

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/07/when-are-heartbeats-audible-during-pregnancy/
https://www.webmd.com/baby/fetal-doppler#1
Derp.

Now that again you're proven wrong, having it backwards as you so often do, with citation and medical fact contradicting you, can you admit it? Doubt it, small men never can admit they're wrong. I admitted my mistake just one post ago.

If you expect you won't remember the person you've spent a decade arguing with in just four years, you must already be showing signs of Alzheimer's. I'm so sorry.

Edit: claim to be an expert!? When did I claim to be an expert? I'm pretty certain that's another delusion, but I'm certainly open to proof, which should be easy to come by if you aren't making things again. By tomorrow please. The only thing I'm an expert about is being a seriously cheap bastard.
This is pretty basic stuff, not advanced or really in contention medically, only as a political ploy...no expertise needed to know there's no heart at 6 weeks, or to read that you see the twitch 4-6+ weeks BEFORE it can be heard by dopler...a basic fact which I remind you that you, self designated expert in the field, got backwards. You were so sure about it too.

Really...You saw a HEART beating at 6 weeks. You're a liar....not a new revelation btw. You've been a proud liar for years.

The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists also has said in a statement, “What is interpreted as a heartbeat in these bills is actually electrically-induced flickering of a portion of the fetal tissue that will become the heart as the embryo develops. Thus, ACOG does not use the term ‘heartbeat’ to describe these legislative bans on abortion because it is misleading language, out of step with the anatomical and clinical realities of that stage of pregnancy.”

I do not believe you work in as a medical device service tech (which wouldn't include ANY medical training, now would it) but can't spell or read above a third grade level. It's just not believable....not that it would indicate any medical knowledge if true.

Again, seeing a PULSE is not seeing a heartbeat. If they say they saw a heart at 6 weeks, report them, they're delusional. What they call it has nothing to do with reality....many nurses are anti vaxers Q followers, being in the medical field doesn't make one reasonable, logical, or right. Techs aren't doctors....and doctors fudge the truth to avoid conflict. Press them, they'll admit there's no heart, unless like you they prefer a comfortable lie to the hard truth, and believe it's better to tell a lie than a truth that might hurt your position. Probably shouldn't have admitted you think that.

Here's a citation for you to dismiss as fake news....https://www.factcheck.org/2019/07/when-are-heartbeats-audible-during-pregnancy/

Btw, I stand corrected, except for changes in the muscle tissue, the basic heart is apparently formed by week 13, not 20. The muscle tissue matures around week 20. I'm always willing to admit when I'm wrong, unlike some.

@noseeem

Yep I'm shitty with grammar and spelling But I can fix anything and hold my own in front any Dr. or C suite within my field of expertise.

Personal experience? BSEET Penn State.
33 years as a medical Field service Engineer.


28 years working for Global conglomerates and 5 years in house at UNC Chapel hill NC.
I’ve been with Siemens Medical and General Electric most of my career.
I’ve serviced/ install Cathlabs, Vascular labs, Rad/ RF rooms and Mammo rooms. Plus others.


Last 20 years installing / servicing Medical Ultrasound.
This includes Cardiac, Radiology ultrasound and Woman’s health, OBGYN
I’ve seen more ultrasounds hearts and heartbeats than you can imagine..
Being Hippa compliant, I look at images for quality and for servicing.

All the Techs I talk to say the same . Heartbeat starts about the 6 to 10 week of pregnancy
And yes there are images that capture this along with all the other images and measurements. Doppler is used for this.

Per quick Google search
When does the heartbeat show on ultrasound?
A fetal heartbeat may first be detected by a vaginal ultrasound as early as 5 1/2 to 6 weeks after gestation. That's when a fetal pole, the first visible sign of a developing embryo, can sometimes be seen. But between 6 1/2 to 7 weeks after gestation, a heartbeat can be better assessed.

Your fucking up the wrong tree today. Go back to being the big guy at you high school.

You can even do this at home

Jane you ignorant slut…..MY tangent straw men!?! Lol!!! You mean like how many ultrasound techs I’ve known!? Or what my personal hands on experience is….as if one can only have an opinion on abortion or knowledge of the stages of development if they are ultrasound techs. Aaaaaahahahaha. That must be good meth.
Ok, here….again…. Illiterate Fool: you aren’t so blatantly hypocritical that you are both anti choice and anti mandatory vaccination, are you?

No one said it makes one a doctor besides you. Another paper tiger you set up for yourself. It’s not clever, you aren’t “winning”, you need your Ritalin.

My degree is general science, so I’m actually qualified to answer general science questions like this one. What’s your degree in again?

Bob, if you won’t or can’t read, there’s no point repeating myself again….Your question, replete with grammatical errors, was answered multiple times above. Reading comprehension is obviously not a strong suit for you.

In short, my hands on knowledge is decades of science education well beyond biology, necessarily including basic medical education (like topics like this), a continuing curiosity about how things work that keeps me up to date on most mainstream science including medical breakthroughs and quackery like your arguments, and ties to the Stanford medical community because my mother edited all their publications for decades, forwarding me the most interesting advancements they made, often before they were published.

Now, again I ask…what’s your personal experience on this topic? I’m absolutely certain it’s less, there’s no way an 8th grade dropout works in medicine. You have no experience and no education, no understanding, no knowledge at all, just what bubba dun told you down to da boars nest.

It’s what there is at 6 weeks. The whole thing is less than a newt in the egg, no limbs, 1/2 the size of a pea….the heart isn’t formed at all. Get someone to read for you, watch a film, this isn’t hard info to find if you remove your head from your anus. Look at real medical sites, not anti abortion propaganda sites, they lie, exaggerate, and obfuscate.

That is a nerve pulse, not a heart beat, and any competent tech knows the difference.
A pulse starts at 6-10 weeks, the heart takes over 20 before it's a heart. Any tech that sees a heartbeat at 6 weeks needs retraining....There's NO FUCKING HEART TO BEAT!

No, doctors do not relay 100% of what the tech writes...have you ever had one?! I've had a few. They also edit, even reject reports that have errors. Claiming they see a heart beating at 6 weeks would be an error, a grievous error.

Mom dragged me to work and I met ultrasound techs (among other medical professionals). That's what you asked, how many I had met. You fucking asked, moron. Why did YOU ask how many I had met if it's irrelevant?! You're a fucking two year old.

Take your meds....you've lost your fucking mind, you're over triggered, and you took too much meth last night. Try again when you can string a rational thought together.

You're talking about techs knowing more than the doctors because they see the scans daily....but they don't see hearts on those scans, they see a microscopic twitch in a few cells.

Hands on knowledge?....more than you, I passed biology (up to advanced molecular organic chemistry, you never even dissected anything I would guess)). Those with hands on knowledge and medical training say there's no heartbeat with no heart, and no heart until over 20 weeks after conception.

If you are implying I I should shut the fuck up because (you assume) I have no first hand experience seeing 6 week old cell clusters twitch, why are you talking about anything? You not only have no experience, but you have no knowledge, no education, no clue.
I've at least seen multiple videos of such "twitches", which is all one sees in person, and there's barely even a tube, there's not one structure of a heart formed, and there's absolutely not a functional heart for months by anyone's theory.

Triggered much?!

Any Tech knows when there is a heart beat( except those in training or just out of school).
And they will tell you it occurs around 6 to 10 weeks. Fully developed or not a beat is a beat.

When finger develop they are stubs but still they are fingers.

Techs are not Drs but they relay 100% on what the tech say and write.

Not talking about Techs giving a treatment plan ( straw man argument).
Techs report and Dr give treatment options.
( hence high malpractice insurance costs).
Dr may edit and add to the report. IF they spot an error then can edit.



So you mom dragged yo to work and you somehow you became as knowledgeable at them.

My sister used to be a butcher and brought her daughter to work often. This does not make the daughter a butcher or even remotely knowledgeable of the subject.

You bringing up the many any many DR yo u met is irreverent to the argument.


So reading a book makes you more knowledgeable than the ones who see for themself day in day and day out.
( bet you supplement this with lots of YouTube's)

{{If I listen to lots and lots of music and read a few books This will make you smarter than an actual song writer? }} Good logic bud.



Elitist Tool:
What actual hands on knowledge do you fucking have about this topic?

If people who see it daily call it a heart beat, then clearly reading a book is better, because you can't get a heart beat without a heart, and a valveless, chamberless tube that doesn't pump isn't a heart. If you look at a straw day in and day out and you start to see it as a heart, actually seeing it is worse. If you go to school and say you see the heart at 6 weeks, you fail.

Jebus. Double negative and heart best? Are you drunk?

I do think +-90% of them know, 10% believe they hear a heart beat because they can now detect a faint nerve signal, but no heart. That 10% are fooling themselves to avoid contradicting their beliefs with medical fact.

What bubble? Did I say they didn't? That doesn't make them doctors. Lab techs do the same...mri techs, even x-Ray techs in some places. Would you let a tech determine your treatment plan, or even diagnose you without a real doctor involved? They aren't even nurses, they know how to run the machine and spot certain results for further investigation/treatment. The doctors review and often edit the reports. If a report of a 6 week pregnancy talked about the heart, that tech would be let go for incompetence. There is no heart.

Dumb fuck, you asked me how many I've talked to. I answered, with an explanation of why I’ve met many. Now you act like I brought it up to say I know some, so I am one?! Are you on meth?

Mom worked at Texas Children's hospital and Methodist hospital in Houston, so yes, those specialists and many many many more, and being curious I asked them lots of questions.

Because my mom worked at a childrens hospital means I knew sonographers and ultrasound techs, there's a difference, which was your question. Jesus, you're like Ritalin kid from smoking aces....to yourself you're fighting this amazing fight with spinning kicks and flips so amazing it gets you hard, but to everyone else you're flailing wildly and are just annoying, not a dangerous opponent to be feared or respected.

Reading a book and actually seeing the development day in and day out are NOT the same.

You don't think Ultrasound sonographers don't know what a heart best is?

Hate to burst you bubble. These techs scan , write up the report and tell the Dr. The techs also determine the age of development and also the estimate of due date. They also tell tell the Dr if you have a still born. The Dr then tells the patient.

The Dr reviews the report and look at the images if needed.

You mom worked at the hospital and you met a lot of doctors. That does not make you a DR nor you mom. Also were these
OB/GYN doctors
Rad Doctors
Oncology Doctors
Cardiac Doctors


Just because you mom work at a hospital doesn't mean much.

Try again tool boy.

I don't have to do ultrasounds to read the biological foetal evolution of a prehuman. There's no question here about the facts. That's the advantage of being able to read a text book.

Do you think ultrasound technicians and sonographers are doctors? Think again.

Mom worked at the biggest hospital in Texas for years, so I've met more than I counted. I also met doctors.

If you could read a text book, the science isn't in question. A tube that perhaps slightly twitches but has no mechanism to pump fluid is not a heart, it's a nerve signal from the cluster of cells that eventually will become a brain to pump when one is there months later, nothing more at 6 weeks. Calling it a heart beat is lying. There's no heart to beat. It's like calling a wire and battery a computer because computers use wires and electricity. The rest just isn't there.