What do you mean? Do you mean they include reductions in deaths because of that? Yes. Do you mean is there an adjustment to try and offset that? No.

Automotive deaths are a raw number, so it shows how many people die in a given area. It isn't something that is adjusted, it is the actual number of people who die. That then gets broken down by the cause.

In general if you are interested in evidence of increased vehicle safety leading to less deaths you can look at the deaths per million vehicle miles traveled. Basically, as people drive more, in general deaths would go up. However better safety in cars has been doing a good job of reducing deaths, despite miles traveled increasing.

Automotive porn!

They need to make a version with a clear body casing. That looks like the goddamn batmobile from the back!!

As Clint Eastwood said as William Munny:

Deserve's got nothing to do with it.

I feel like I've tried to make this rather fine point a lot over the years on the Sift: I'm not saying he *should* or *deserves to* be run over by a car for trying to pull a con.

What I'm saying is he put himself into a situation where he could get run over by a car and did so of his own volition with blatant malicious intent. The fact that his pretending to get run over by a car actually resulted in him getting run over by a car yields zero sympathy with me.

Plus, I'm not sure what country you're in or if you're automotively insured, but if you are at fault of hitting someone with your car, you'll be screwed with insurance and paying a significantly higher rater for several years to come. It's not like a bank where your money is insured by the federal government and a robbery of the vault wouldn't affect you; the victim of an insurance scam is directly, immediately, and significantly fucked.

(Someone used my name when they were apparently at fault in an accident before I'd ever gotten my first insurance policy, and when I did first try to get insured, my premium was something like triple what it would've cost me otherwise.)

Again, not saying that ^that means he deserves to be crushed by a car, but he did it to himself. (Likewise, if he was playing Russian roulette and shot himself in the head, I wouldn't feel bad for him.)

You reap what you sow.

I'm with @Yogi.
Not a fan of F1 (or any sport for that matter), though I enjoy the technical aspect of it. It's a sport first, but also automotive R&D second.

*quality automotive goodness

Forgot to click the quote button on my last post.

But you're right that harbor freight tools will help you to sacrifice blood to the automotive god, thus ensuring the project is a success

>> ^bmacs27:

Friendly jab back: That Adolf fellow was a real automotive liberator eh? Maybe we should have left you all to your freedom?


I'll just leave you with this...

Friendly jab back: That Adolf fellow was a real automotive liberator eh? Maybe we should have left you all to your freedom?
>> ^TheGenk:

@TheFreak: Crossing the Autobahn on foot is actually against the law.
@deathcow: Again, friendly jab. A joke in light of all the "I don't want the government to tell me what I can and can't do"-rhetoric videos from America you find cross the net.
@aimpoint:
Accidents on german highways in 2011 was at 6.4% of all car accidents. With 31% of total traffic in germany being on highways thats pretty damn low. And as far as I can discern of those 6.4% about 60-70% involve trucks which are limited to 100km/h(and the outer right lane, for the most part).

just found out that "Fox News is now reporting that President Barack Obama’s just-released new campaign video that previews his new slogan, “Forward,” has “historical ties to Marxism, Socialism.”"

... but then again

"Forward is a leadership position in football, basketball, and rugby. The Forward is also a Jewish-American newspaper. Forward is also the name of several towns in Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin. Forward is also the name of a truck sold in the U.S. by Isuzu. And Forward is the name of an album recorded by American Idol semi-finalist Ayla Brown.

Interesting that Fox News and the Washington Times didn’t bother to make those sports, journalism, geographic, automotive, or musical references."

More here : http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/fox-news-obama-campaign-slogan-has-ties-to-marxism-socialism/politics/2012/05/01/38787

You're right - this is all mostly speculation.

I believe that if the GM and Chrysler had failed, consumer confidence would have collapsed and Americans would have deferred their new vehicle purchases or bought used cars. As it was, auto sales were down 18% in 2008.

The failure of GM and Chrysler would have removed something like 33% of U.S. vehicle production, and 4% of all U.S. manufacturing. Everyone else would have maximized their production to make up for the loss, but it would have taken years to replace that amount of production.

Meanwhile, the 1 in 30 Americans residing in the State of Michigan start living in Mad Max times.

I think it is one of the functions of government to provide a buffer between the people and the wild throes of relentless progress inherent in free-market capitalism. The government bans things like slavery and child labor, not because it makes financial sense, but because it is the right thing to do. I think there is a similar justification for the automotive bailout. The bailout prevented human suffering on a massive scale. That is why we should care about saving those jobs.

IMHO

>> ^xxovercastxx:

>> ^NetRunner:
People also forget that it wasn't just people who work for GM and Chrysler whose jobs were saved. There's a whole supply chain to think about.
Do you believe that the demand for cars would have decreased if the big 3 went under? If so, please explain how and why....
... So the question I pose (and I know we can only speculate on the answer) is what effect have the bailouts had on Toyota, Honda, etc? Or do we not care because they don't employ as many Americans as the domestics?

>> ^blackoreb:

You are out of date with your stereotypes - it has been a while since American cars have sucked. Quality has improved dramatically of late. And improved quality is a contributing factor in the slow-down of the industry. Americans replace their cars less frequently than in the past (a trend that predates 2008).
GM consistently outsells Ford, so your vote-with-our-wallets argument does not work.
Ford would have gone bankrupt in 2006 if it hadn't gotten a $23.5 billion government loan. Since it was a loan Ford now has more debt than its peers. Ford was not in a position financially to "grow to fill the gap".
The domestic automotive business accounts for nearly a million jobs, concentrated in just 3 states. Losing those jobs, even for a year or two while the economy adapted, would have sucked so so bad.

They may not be at their lowest point but I'm not convinced American cars are all that great yet. My mother bought a brand new 2012 Ford Edge in November and I've driven it a few times. It's typical poorly designed, shoddy American craftsmanship.

I don't understand your point about GM outselling Ford and how that invalidates anything I said. Please explain.

I'm under the impression that the 2006 Ford deal was a bank mortgage. Please explain if I'm wrong.

To add anecdotal evidence. Chinese love american cars. You can see them all over Beijing being driven by the well-to-do. Some women lose their minds over them (in the end of the vid, you can hear the guy give in ("I'll buy it!!") and hand the guy his credit card to stop his girlfriend's tantrum): >> ^blackoreb:

You are out of date with your stereotypes - it has been a while since American cars have sucked. Quality has improved dramatically of late. And improved quality is a contributing factor in the slow-down of the industry. Americans replace their cars less frequently than in the past (a trend that predates 2008).
GM consistently outsells Ford, so your vote-with-our-wallets argument does not work.
Ford would have gone bankrupt in 2006 if it hadn't gotten a $23.5 billion government loan. Since it was a loan Ford now has more debt than its peers. Ford was not in a position financially to "grow to fill the gap".
The domestic automotive business accounts for nearly a million jobs, concentrated in just 3 states. Losing those jobs, even for a year or two while the economy adapted, would have sucked so so bad.

>> ^xxovercastxx:
...But I still would have preferred we let these companies fail, or they pick themselves up and turn things around like Ford did.
American cars have sucked for 20+ years now. They couldn't compete on a level playing field so we put tariffs on foreign cars to artificially raise their prices. On a slanted playing field, American cars still can't compete. Why? Because, overall, they're garbage; that's why.
We already voted to let them go out of business by not buying their cars...

You are out of date with your stereotypes - it has been a while since American cars have sucked. Quality has improved dramatically of late. And improved quality is a contributing factor in the slow-down of the industry. Americans replace their cars less frequently than in the past (a trend that predates 2008).

GM consistently outsells Ford, so your vote-with-our-wallets argument does not work.

Ford would have gone bankrupt in 2006 if it hadn't gotten a $23.5 billion government loan. Since it was a loan Ford now has more debt than its peers. Ford was not in a position financially to "grow to fill the gap".

The domestic automotive business accounts for nearly a million jobs, concentrated in just 3 states. Losing those jobs, even for a year or two while the economy adapted, would have sucked so so bad.


>> ^xxovercastxx:

...But I still would have preferred we let these companies fail, or they pick themselves up and turn things around like Ford did.
American cars have sucked for 20+ years now. They couldn't compete on a level playing field so we put tariffs on foreign cars to artificially raise their prices. On a slanted playing field, American cars still can't compete. Why? Because, overall, they're garbage; that's why.
We already voted to let them go out of business by not buying their cars...

Strange:

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> He wants to abolish auto safety

FUNNY!!!

I am sure when automaker 1 says "We got rid of seatbelts and our car is $20 cheaper!" and automaker 2 says "We've improved our seatbelts even more, and we still do expensive crash testing." that the buyers will set the policy for automotive safety.