Here is Card's preface before any of the Quotes TYT laid out:
"So as a science fiction writer and a student of history, allow me to spin a plausible scenario about how, like Augustus Caesar, Napoleon Bonaparte, Adolph Hitler, and Vladimir Putin, Barack Obama could become lifetime dictator without any serious internal opposition."

It is absolutely clear that he does NOT state this is a prediction of the future he expects. Meanwhile Cenk painstakingly sets up that the quotes are Card's rallying cry against what he expects to happen in the next few years. That's lying.

Card's statements prior to that were nothing any more severe than what all manner of people decried Bush and Cheney for and worse. Plenty of people talked at length about 'what if' Bush doesn't step down, or Cheney doesn't step down. I think it horrifically unfair to now leap down Card's throat for the same.

>> ^hpqp:
>> ^shinyblurry:
Neros name was Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus.

Bin Laden's name was Osama bin Mohammed bin Awad bin Laden.
Why awe they twitewing so?

>> ^hpqp:

>> ^shinyblurry:
Neros name was Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus.

Bin Laden's name was Osama bin Mohammed bin Awad bin Laden.


The point being that his full name doesn't add up to 666. Not only that but Neros original name was Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus. So arbitrarily picking out Nero Caeser as his name because it adds up to 666 and saying this is who John is talking about doesn't cut the mustard. This wasn't who John was talking about, because the man of sin has not yet been revealed. It was prophecy for the future, not for Johns present.

Neros name was Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus.

I'm a bit surprised something like this could come out of Fox.

A few things regarding his 'what ifs':

"What if elections don't matter? What if they just provided the populace with meaningless participation in a process that validates an establishment that never meaningfully changes"



This is exactly what Augustus did when he made himself the first emperor of Rome - elections that mean nothing. Many have seen the repeated parallels between the fall of the Roman Republic and what is currently happening in America; is this another parallel?

"What if the widely perceived differences between [the Republican and Democratic Parties] is just an illusion?"



From the perspective of non-Americans, this has been the idea for a long time. The Democratic party is America's left-of-center/liberal party, but when compared to even the conservative parties in other 'western' countries, it is right-wing/conservative. There really is no choice in American politics.

>> ^Skeeve:

I think the big issue is that, now that Americans are waking up and realizing how "free" they actually are, the powers that be are acting quickly to cement their position at the top.
It brings to mind the rise and fall of the Roman Empire; the Republic was no more but Augustus let the people believe their votes meant something, let them think the republic still functioned until, after generations, the emperors were too entrenched to be removed without violence.
It may not be too late for America, but it's following a similar course.


Indeed, though, once you had Emperors at all, the dream of Rome was dead really. Most of the history of Rome that is lauded over was in the years of the Emperors; which means our death throws might be longer than one would expect.

I think the big issue is that, now that Americans are waking up and realizing how "free" they actually are, the powers that be are acting quickly to cement their position at the top.

It brings to mind the rise and fall of the Roman Empire; the Republic was no more but Augustus let the people believe their votes meant something, let them think the republic still functioned until, after generations, the emperors were too entrenched to be removed without violence.

It may not be too late for America, but it's following a similar course.

Augustus, what about that fun room that made everyone look like they were growing? Or lickable wallpaper? Wasn't that on the tour before you left it? Heck, how can you not look back and feel anything but joy at seeing the wonderful "Pure Imagination" performed LIVE? Dude, you were swimming in chocolate. Chocolate! Who else in the whole world can say that? Perspective, Augustus. Perspective is everything.

Okay, maybe I shouldn't have said Wrroonngg so quickly--but you presume that your readings about Rome are more extensive than mine.

Nero, Caligula and many later Emperors are examples of the human psyche let loose. Psychopaths with no restrictions on their behavior.

The Roman Republic lasted for almost 500 years--during which time--homosexuality was looked on as a vice and shameful behavior. Emperor Augustus imposed strict modesty and morality edicts--including homosexual activities--which didn't apply to him. So even in the later, Empire Era, Rome was hardly be considered, "one big, gay death machine."

"Marcus Aurelius was straight at least..." This one gave me a laugh.


The Love Letters of Emperor Marcus Aurelius and Marcus Cornelius Fronto
Excerpts from My Dear Boy: Gay Love Letters through the Centuries (1998), Edited by Rictor Norton

From Marcus Cornelliius Fronto to Marcus Aurelius

Your lover, too, as they say, composes some amatory writings about you in the hope of enticing you with this bait, if with no other, and attracting you to himself and catching you; but such things are a disgrace and an insult and a sort of licentious cry, the outcome of stinging lust, such as those of wild beasts and fed cattle, that from sexual desire bellow or neigh or low or howl. Like to these are the lyrics of lovers. If, therefore, you submit yourself to your lover to enjoy where and when he pleases, awaiting neither time that is fitting nor leisure nor privacy, then, like a beast in the frenzy of desire, will he make straight for you and be eager to go to it not the least ashamed. . . .

"But then they went through the phase where prostitutes could fuck any man they wanted, even while wed and in plain sight, and the Christian empress would have the man executed if he said something..."

The role of prostitution in other societies varies--ours is not the only moral way. And the actions of the Christian church are--during most of it's history--atrocious. I thought you were talking about early Rome with it's outright destruction and pillage.

"You get the point. Rome was confused but definitely bi with a leaning more towards homosexuality--despite their 'laws.'"

A whole country was BI? Wow--just wow.


>> ^Lawdeedaw:

@Boise_Lib
Now now, don't say I am wrong quiet yet. I just read up on Rome and have the advantage here (I read like fucking two days’ worth...)
Nero was more than gay (He married a man as his husband and a man as his wife...see slit in lieu of vagina,) and Caligula (Who was fucking a man while in the arena in front of everyone, then had that man beheaded during climax) was bi and Tiberius (Who was fucking Caligula after murdering his family) was bi and the typical soldier, and...wait, yeah, there were many more. Basically, 14 out of 15 were gay or gay-ish at least. By that I mean some were open, some closed. Commodus? Yeah, gay...
(Most were simply bi just to have a son btw. Otherwise it would have been just man on man.)
The whole conflict with homosexuality came in later--after the Roman Catholic Church gained power... Now, that's not saying it wasn't against the law in the early days--but that's the same as adultery, yet then orgies were common even though they were illegal... let's pretend the law doesn't matter here---because it didn't...
Marcus Aurelius was straight at least...
And yes, this was the early Rome, when it was brutal, but then that's what I was talking about when I said the world hated them. Later, yes, later they began to hate homosexual behavior. But then they went through the phase where prostitutes could fuck any man they wanted, even while wed and in plain sight, and the Christian empress would have the man executed if he said something...
You get the point. Rome was confused but definitely bi with a leaning more towards homosexuality--despite their "laws."
@shuac I meant the crimes of Rome itself, not homosexuals. It's kind of hard to forgive a nation that captured and enslaved your city and then raped your male children with abandon.
@hpqp
I don't think homosexuality is girly, but that's their reasoning... Sad, so sad because it is not true.

The story of the Roman emperor Gaius (Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus Germanicus, son of Germanicus) is a really good counter example for you. He was a likable, cultured, well educated young man who just turned out to be entirely unsuitable for the job thrust upon him. Jimbo's big bag'o'trivia has an article summarising some of the main points, but finding a book on the subject would be better.>> ^Longswd:

That's an old saw I've always considered to be fallacious. It's not that power corrupts, it's that power is attractive to the corruptible and why it should never be granted to those who seek it. A Catch-22 for any democratic elective process (or any form of governance in general, really). I don't know the answer, I just know that humans suck.

http://videosift.com/video/Sid-Meier-s-Civilization-II-Augustus-Rises

^And choosing to let your daughter live makes you feel like a primitive, hormone-driven animal?

I absolve you of your guilt, my child

I think power is a relevant factor in how shortsighted you can allow yourself to be. if you're king of the world, you'd better think carefully about your decisions, because they will have a huge impact. If you're a regular middle class guy in the western world, none of what you do is probably going to have a very huge (think Augustus Caesar) impact, so you're allowed to just follow the regular old Categorical Imperative and indulge in selfish, instinctual behaivor, ne?

HOLY CRAP! AUGUSTUS GLOOP!!!!!

And lo, so it came to pass that Germanicus Julius Caesar was betrothed to Agrippina the Elder and through their couplings was *begot the legendary cruelty that was Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus Germanicus... known to the world as CALIGULA!