"Architecture of Happiness" - Man-made island near amsterdam has been added as a related post - related requested by Trancecoach on that post.

Yes, you seem to finally get it. As I wrote but you misunderstood or intentionally ignored, legalization without regulation simply encourages the black market.
The point of legalization is that it fosters regulation. If there is no enforcement, that's the government's failing. Here in the USA, we have some legal brothels that are regulated fairly tightly, and as far as I can tell there's never once been a claim that they used slaves in either one. They would not do so because they would likely be caught and lose their money factory.
And I think you are completely wrong, this video directly accuses legal brothels of being the culprit. It starts off pretending to be a legal brothel, then has a sign that slaves end up "here" (in a legal brothel).
I think they missed the point by using legal brothels in Amsterdam as the setting for the video, they should have pretended to be a black market brothel elsewhere.

Thanks, Procrastination, for the backup. It is a normal problem here that people read or cherry pick one sentence out of context then rant against what they wish it said. Also a problem that people give links to "evidence" and jump to conclusions about it rather than stick to what it actually says. Because a story makes you feel a certain way about an issue, one should read carefully to be sure the facts actually support that feeling, as many writers are willing to obfuscate, fabricate, or outright lie to prove their point.

Points like...

"In countries where the brothels are legal and regulated it's nearly impossible to force sex slavery, at least in a legal brothel like this one."?

or

"There is 0% slavery in the legal brothels, they make plenty of money without slaves and they don't want to lose their license to print money."?

He's entitled to his own opinion but he's not entitled to his own facts.

You both seem to be making the same assumption...that a legalized brothel is a regulated brothel. Why would the owners of a brothel risk using sex slaves in a legal brothel? Money...if it isn't regulated or poorly regulated than their isn't much risk is there?

Regardless this is pointless as the video isn't targeting legal brothels. It's to bring awareness to human trafficking. The organization www.stopthetraffik.org addresses this as a global issue.

If you have a problem with them using Amsterdam as the setting for the video then you're just missing the point.

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) — A court convicted six people Friday in what prosecutors said was the largest case of human trafficking ever brought to trial in the Netherlands.
Experts said the case could have an impact on Dutch policy because the crimes were committed after brothels were legalized in 2000 in the hope that legitimacy would make it easier for the police to monitor prostitution.

Five of the six convicted men were found guilty of participating in a large, well-established network that kept women in prostitution by force — and with extreme violence.

Some of the victims were compelled to have breast enlargement surgery, and one defendant was convicted of forcing at least one woman to have an abortion. Women were beaten and forced to sit in icy water to avoid bruising. They also were tattooed.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-07-11-Dutch-human-trafficking_N.htm

You're argument seems to be if it's legal then there is little incentive to do it illegally. But just think of your example...The Bunny Ranch. I'd bet there is far more illegal prostitution going on in Nevada then legal prostitution.

"AMSTERDAM — This city's famed red-light district looks much as it has for years, with bikini-clad women behind plate-glass windows fluffing their hair or beckoning to passersby, colorful beds visible in the background as an unspoken invitation.

But things could soon change for the sex-for-hire industry following a recognition in the freewheeling Netherlands that its decision in 2000 to legalize brothels has failed to stem human trafficking."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324049504578543370643627376.html

Knowing my countrymen as I do I will assume this is a resort for British people who can't get to see a show in Amsterdam.

French? This is the corner Brouwersgracht/Singel in Amsterdam!

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The Cannabis Cup has nothing to do with medical marijuana, it is a recreational marijuana event, normally held in Amsterdam.

Where there is no difference, is between a bunch of people drinking alcohol and these people smoking marijuana... well save for the fact these people aren't using something that destroys their bodies as much, it doesn't make them more violent and irritable and overly confident in themselves and their reaction time, and the high ends much sooner than the drunkards drunkenness (but can be detected in the system for far longer); but hey let's keep wasting billions of tax dollars keeping up a sham of a double standard so we can keep prisons over crowded with non-violent drug offenders, let's waste police resources finding people smoking or growing a plant,rather than violent criminals that pose an actual threat to society... because that makes perfect sense in opposite world.

Make no mistake, the supposed tax revenue that proponents of legalization make are a bit overstated since it is relatively easy to grow (to grow period, to grow quality stuff not so easy or cheap) compared to brewing one's own beer or something, but there would be some.

It is the height of hypocrisy to say marijuana should be illegal while saying people should be allowed to drink/make/brew beer, wine or other such drinks or us tobacco products.

So the UK has a higher violent crime rate and yet also less homicides? The UK has some of the strictest gun laws, and a gun homicide rate of 0.07per 100,000. This is 1/40th of the states. How much of this correlation is causation? I don't know, but I reckon if the UK suddenly go lax on gun laws that 0.07 figure would only change one way.

As for the drop in crime in the states...well, it reminds me of an episode of The Wire. A big drop like that and nobody wants to take credit for it? One can't help but wonder if thats because the goal posts have been moving. That or somebody created Amsterdam zones on the quiet

>> ^Yogi:

>> ^Trancecoach:
bring on the corporate take-over of the industry and watch the quality diminish.

Well that's probably not true. A large corporation isn't going to risk their money with takeover from the federal government. I imagine what you'll have is something like wine. Small operations and small businesses who have been growing weed before but now can do it out in the open. Hopefully that won't force the product to dip drastically, and also it will inspire competition between growers due to more public and allowable advertising. You can try different peoples stuff and maybe it'll be your thing.

They have only legalised possession so far though. Growing/distribution still seems to be illegal for the moment right?

Anyway, its not as if budweiser is the only option when it comes to alcohol. Plenty of smaller businesses making different varieties. Look at Amsterdam coffee shops.

"Won't be Amsterdam". You cant smoke a joint on the sidewalk in Amsterdam...

These steps lead to the new "film museum" cinema in Amsterdam. They forgot to build a wheelchair ramp. You have to call ahead so they can let you in via the delivery back door. Seems like this guy wanted to protest that...

Disease rates

"During the past two decades, an explosive growth in both the prevalence and types of sexually transmitted diseases has occurred. Up to 55 percent of homosexual men with anorectal complaints have gonorrhea; 80 percent of the patients with syphilis are homosexuals. Chlamydia is found in 15 percent of asymptomatic homosexual men, and up to one third of homosexuals have active anorectal herpes simplex virus"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrezDb=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=2242700&ordinalpos=4&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_Resul
tsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Higher rates of AIDS - 63 percent of new cases

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5424a2.htm


Drug use

Among homosexual men, ages 18 to 25: 79.2 percent have used marijuana; 75 percent have used psychotherapeutics for nonmedical reasons; 65.2 percent have used stimulants such as dexedrine and benzedrine; 62.5 percent have used inhalants such as amyl or butyl nitrate; and 50.2 percent have used hallucinogens such as LSD. Rates among lesbians: marijuana, 82 percent; psychotherapeutics, 58.8 percent; stimulants, 52.9 percent; inhalants, 41.2 percent; and hallucinogens, 41.2 percent. Comparing current usage to national usage, homosexuals were found to use drugs with greater frequency: "Among adults aged 18-25, 16.5 percent of men and 9.1 percent of women have used marijuana in the past month, compared with 37.5 per-cent of gay men and 23.5 percent of lesbians."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1615476/

20 times higher rate of meth use (quoted from LA Times article)

http://www.narth.com/docs/methuse.html

Domestic violence

"Rates of battering victimization among urban MSM are substantially higher than among heterosexual men and possibly heterosexual women. Public health efforts directed toward addressing intimate partner battering among these men are needed."

http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.92.12.1964

http://www.springerlink.com/content/r130ql0471892435/

Depression, suicide, mental health

LGB people are at higher risk of mental disorder, suicidal ideation, substance misuse, and deliberate self harm than heterosexual people

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18706118

Findings support recent evidence suggesting that gay, lesbian, and bisexual young people are at increased risk of mental health problems, with these associations being particularly evident for measures of suicidal behavior and multiple disorder.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10530626

Life expectancy of homosexuals

"In a major Canadian centre, life expectancy at age 20 years for gay and bisexual men is 8 to 20 years less than for all men. If the same pattern of mortality were to continue, we estimate that nearly half of gay and bisexual men currently aged 20 years will not reach their 65th birthday. Under even the most liberal assumptions, gay and bisexual men in this urban centre are now experiencing a life expectancy similar to that experienced by all men in Canada in the year 1871"

http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/26/3/657.abstract

Statistics on Amsterdam

According to a study in the Netherlands where homosexuality has been accepted and mainstreamed for years, homosexual behavior significantly increases the likelihood of psychiatric, mental and emotional disorders, negating the mindset that society’s lack of tolerance of homosexual behavior and lifestyle produces these psychoses Youth are four times as likely to suffer major depression, almost three times as likely to suffer generalized anxiety disorder, nearly four times as likely to experience conduct disorder, four times as likely to commit suicide, five times as likely to have nicotine dependence, six times as likely to suffer multiple disorders, and more than six times as likely to have attempted suicide.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11146762

That covers all of my claims. I think you'll find all of the evidence I have provided is from unbiased sources. This refutes the claim that homosexuality does not harm anyone. It clearly harms the individual, the community and society at large.

Here are some more statistics that I don't have direct links to. .

An Amsterdam study found that the average homosexual relationship lasts only 18 months and that "men in homosexual relationships, on average, have eight partners a year outside those relationships." By comparison, more than two-thirds of heterosexual marriages in America last longer than ten years. Maria Xiridou et al.,

"The Contribution of Steady and Casual Partnerships to the Incidence of HIV Infection Among Homosexual Men in Amsterdam,"
AIDS 17, 7 (2003): 1029-1038.

Ricky Behaviors:

Researchers from the University of California, San Francisco found that thirty-six percent of homosexuals engaging in unprotected oral, anal, or vaginal sex failed to disclose that they were HIV positive to casual sex partners.

"Some With HIV Aren't Disclosing Before Sex; UCSF Researcher's 1,397-person Study Presented During aids Conference," The San Francisco Examiner (July 15, 2000)"

A CDC report revealed that, in 1997, 45 percent of homosexuals reporting having had unprotected anal intercourse during the previous six months did not know the HIV serostatus of all their sex partners. Even more alarming, among those who reported having had unprotected anal intercourse and multiple partners, 68 percent did not know the HIV serostatus of their partners

Gay and Bi Men Less Likely to Disclose They Have HIV," GayHealth News (July 18, 2000).

Promiscuity

A.P. Bell and M.S. Weinberg, in their classic study of male and female homosexuality, found that 43 percent of white male homosexuals had sex with 500 or more partners, with 28 percent having 1,000 or more sex partners.

A. P. Bell and M. S. Weinberg, Homosexualities: A Study of Diversity Among Men and Women (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1978), pp. 308, 9; see alsoBell, Weinberg and Hammersmith, Sexual Preference (Bloomington: Indiana University Press, 1981)

Paul Van de Ven et al., "A Comparative Demographic and Sexual Profile of Older Homosexually Active Men," Journal of Sex Research 34 (1997): 354. Dr. Paul Van de Ven reiterated these results in a private conversation with Dr. Robert Gagnon on September 7, 2000

In their study of the sexual profiles of 2,583 older homosexuals published in Journal of Sex Research, Paul Van de Ven et al., found that only 2.7 percent claimed to have had sex with one partner only. The most common response, given by 21.6 percent of the respondents, was of having a hundred-one to five hundred lifetime sex partners.

Survey Finds 40 percent of Gay Men Have Had More Than 40 Sex Partners," Lambda Report, January/February 1998, p. 20.

A survey conducted by the homosexual magazine Genre found that 24 percent of the respondents said they had had more than a hundred sexual partners in their lifetime. The magazine noted that several respondents suggested including a category of those who had more than a thousand sexual partners.[11]

M. Pollak, "Male Homosexuality," in Western Sexuality: Practice and Precept in Past and Present Times, edited by P. Aries and A. Bejin, pp. 40-61, cited by Joseph Nicolosi in Reparative therapy of Male Homosexuality (Northvale, New Jersey: Jason Aronson Inc., 1991),

In his study of male homosexuality in Western Sexuality: Practice and Precept in Past and Present Times, M. Pollak found that "few homosexual relationships last longer than two years, with many men reporting hundreds of lifetime partners."

David P. McWhirter and Andrew M. Mattison, The Male Couple: How Relationships Develop (Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey: Prentice-Hall, 1984), pp. 252, 3.

>> ^curiousity: