Didn't they have an election a few years ago that had a questionable outcome, with people accusing parties of completely stealing it? (Ahmadinejad)

@Lawdeedaw

There's so much factually wrong here, I don't know where to begin. Let's start with this:

"That rape and mutilation has been going on for centuries but was significant in the Second Sino-Japanese War, a distinct war in and of itself."

Japan was in a state of almost complete isolation from the rest of the world between the years of 1633 and 1853. Even after the period of isolation ended, Japan was too busy for decades industrializing to be rampaging through China, as you suggest.

Japan DID eventually get involved in Chinese politics and in fact went to war with them in the First Sino-Japanese War... in 1894. There are no reports of atrocities committed by the Japanese military during this conflict. In fact, quite the opposite, Japan would release Chinese prisoners of war once they promised not to take up arms against Japan again.

The subjugation of Taiwan (which was ceded to Japan at the end of the first Sino-Japanese War but resisted Japanese rule) is a different story. However, accounts of what exactly happened are sketchy and most of the information we have is anecdotal. What can be gleaned from these anecdotes is that the Formasians put up a fierce guerrilla resistance campaign and that the Japanese tortured and killed anyone suspected of aiding the resistance. Still, it doesn't appear to have been on the same scale as the massacres which occurred during the Rape of Nanking.

As you mentioned, some of the most awful abuses were done during the Second Sino-Japanese War between 1937 and 1945 (the Rape of nanking occurred during this war). The abuse ended Japan's defeat in WWII.

What you can see here by doing the math, is that Japan's military abuses in China lasted a grand total of 50 years--from the subjugation of Formosa (Taiwan) to the end of World War 2--not "centuries."

Next, let's talk about misrepresentation. You seem to be implying that Japanese textbooks don't say that Japan is the aggressor in WW2 (or previous conflicts). As I pointed out in my last post, that is flat-out wrong. There is ONE textbook that was approved for use that whitewashes the history but that book has been ignored an not used by the vast majority of schools in Japan.

If you want to criticize Japanese textbooks, you could criticize them on the grounds that though they mention the terrible things that Japanese forces did, they don't go into a whole lot of detail. See this article for more information.

As far as Abe goes, what exactly has he said that is so terrible? Yes, he hangs out with revisionists. Yes, he has expressed his opinion that Japan should stop apologizing for WWII and start looking to the future instead of the past. Yes, he has said that the issue of "comfort women" should be re-examined in light of claims that some of evidence of their existence was fabricated. But these are not really radical statements by any means. And many people and newspapers do strongly and openly disagree with his statements, so this idea that Japanese people don't challenge him is completely wrong as well.

Yasukuni is a total clusterfuck of a situation. It is a shrine to ALL of Japan's war dead. This includes war criminals, but it also includes regular soldiers just doing their duty. In terms of Shinto beliefs, all of their souls now reside there. Basically, if you want to pay your respects to someone who died in military service in Japan, you have to go there to "see them."

Abe is a total dumbass (and the press let him know it) for going there because he knows already how China and Korea will perceive it, but on the other hand his going there does not mean in any way that he reveres the war criminals who are interred there. I have no idea what his personal views are but publically he has stated that he and his wife go there to remind themselves about the terrible toll war had on Japan the last time Japan engaged in it.

Finally, as for the link you provided, it was to a year-old opinion piece that lacks context. Abe made that statement at a time when it was revealed that some of the evidence of the existence of comfort women in Japan had been faked. It was later decided that the apology would not be changed. In fact, The Japan Times is reporting that it is likely that Abe will mention that "comfort women" had their human rights violated by Japan in his upcoming address on the end of WWII, so the comparison of him to Ahmadinejad is a bit far-fetched.

Of course most Japanese are taught that. Who the fuck said otherwise? Oh, by hiding their history you thought I meant they didn't learn about it at all? Well that's a stupid assumption. You know back in the 1960s Americans "learned" about slavery and our part in it, yet it was often prefaced by "those Negros are inferior so it was great times" or "it was really about federal expansion and not those Negros who should know their place." "Misrepresentation" is a hell of a concept.

And I wasn't even speaking about WW2, so where you got that from I have no utter clue? I didn't even hint at it. That rape and mutilation has been going on for centuries but was significant in the Second Sino-Japanese War, a distinct war in and of itself.

I guess what really pisses me off is that Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, elected by Japan (not just one side, but everyone, from the Emperor to the Diet, who themselves are elected by THE PEOPLE) is a revisionist who is allowed to say his shit by the people of Japan. This isn't a position that is allowed in the civilized world anymore. Fuck, even Iran's Ahmadinejad denied the Holocaust and had to laugh it off as misspeaking. Abe is so flaunting he even visited Yasukuni Shrine, a place that holds more than 1 thousand war criminals in it.

Imagine a German leader going to a memorial for 1 thousand Nazi heroes, perhaps including Hitler himself? Oh, and the fact that those criminals were accepted after their punishments, is terrifying.

Notice something else. I never said that China has the right to slaughter everyone--which gives plenty of pre-acknowledgement to your point that this hateful revisionism is put out by right-wingers (And condoned by all the cowards on the left.) This is because, much as Germans on the left allowed the slaughter of the Jews, most cannot be held directly responsible for a force greater than them. In this case, there is no force greater, but that is beside the point.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/03/opinion/mr-abes-dangerous-revisionism.html?_r=0

Ahmadinejad threatens to remove Israel from the map. Ayatollah Khamenei does the same. The Iranian Revolutionary Guard(which reports directly to Khamenei) virtually founded and continually provides training, arms and funding to Hezbollah which it must be observed routinely attacks Israel.

I'm not trying to say Israel is some pure and innocent virgin. I'm pointing out some basic facts that are routinely denied by a great many people and I felt the need for the truth to be out there. I also fail to understand why pointing out facts like this requires anyone to come out and basically state that Israel deserves it, or at the very least that they started it and are the ones in the wrong.

It's quite possible for there to be 2 wrongs and no need to lesson the sins of either.

Why do you feel the need to point out that hypocrisy when nobody was talking about any of the things you saw as hypocritical?

Re-read the thread and nowhere do I mention any of that. The sole point I am trying to get across is that Ahmadinejad denies the holocaust and that he has publicly called for the elimination of the state of Israel. Many people, even important ones, were denying that Ahmadinejad said such things when I posted the video and I thought it an important truth to get out there.

Why does everyone feel the dire need to counter that by listing Israeli and American crimes and faults? Is it not possible to accept that there are forces of aggression and hatred outside those two states, and that when they manage to become it's upper leadership to start calling it out for what it is.

Would you care to explain how or why that's relevant to Ahmadinejad and Ali Khamenei both routinely denying the holocaust occurred and insisting that they wish to see Israel erased from the map?

I've also had enough of racists spouting off on Zionism as though that makes it ok. If Zionism is pretty simply support for a Jewish state. I understand opposing the idea of a religiously founded state. What I don't understand is why SO MANY people seem entirely content defending the laundry list of Islamic states(Iran,Pakistan,Saudi Arabia to name a few) while insisting that even 1 Jewish state is inherently anathema and the center of all evil.

Don't correct my inaccuracy with another one. Iran is NOT a democracy, it is an Islamic theocracy. My referencing Ahmadinejad as a 'dictator' was only used in the same sense that folks use when referring to Bush, Cheney or Obama as 'dictators'. None of them came to power through a coup or by birth right, and each stepped down in normal course.

Calling Iran a democracy though is just wrong, and is about as accurate as referring to America as a dictatorship, In Iran the presidential candidates must ALL be approved by the Islamic council or nobody gets to even try to vote for them. The highest position of power in the country is not the President, but the Supreme Leader who is appointed by a small group of Islamic 'experts'. There is no room in the Iranian system for the election of an non-Muslim, or even a Sunni muslim, to even attempt to hold the position of President let alone Supreme Leader.

"dictators like Ahmadinejad"

Iran is a democracy. Ahmadinejad is no longer the president.

Hassan Rouhani is the current president.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hassan_Rouhani

I agree with you on many of your points, but the United State's misdeeds don't make Putin any better of a person or politician. Russia Today is certainly pro Putin and he does have a great deal at stake in Syria in terms of arms agreements and military bases. I wouldn't exactly be quoting him as a voice of reason in the world.

Even Mahmoud Ahmadinejad had valid points about US policy's when he visited the UN. Anyone can do that as you well pointed out. I just don't think Putin's motives are as altruistic as he would have us believe.

Mandela was a terrorist in his younger days. . Although initially committed to non-violent protest, in association with the South African Communist Party he co-founded the militant Umkhonto we Sizwe (MK) in 1961, leading a bombing campaign against government targets

Anyway, what gets most people is that you never say anything so negative about real shitbirds like Arafat, Ahmadinejad, Stalin, Castro, Che, etc. All of your invective is aimed at people who would do you no harm.

>> ^CaptainObvious:

>> ^Asmo:
>> ^CaptainObvious:
Fuck no.
Noam Chomsky is a genius and I agree with him almost always - but on this - no way - no.
ANY country with nuclear weaponry is a threat to everyone - let alone a country like Iran. Look what a pain in the ass we have with North Korea and Pakistan.
I remember the cold war and the persistent fear of mutual destruction and the perverse rationality behind it.
I don't want ANY country (including my own) to have nukes, least of all non-democratic countries.
Allowing them and any other non-nuclear country to have nukes is the wrong direction.
We need countries to start giving up nuclear weapons, not proliferating and spreading the disease even more.
The United States might be denying Iran nukes for the wrong reasons (OIL) and perhaps Israel for the right reasons, but frankly I don't care either way.
One less country with nukes is never a bad thing.
---------
"Mr. President, it is not only possible, it is essential. That is the whole idea of this machine, you know. Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the FEAR to attack. And so, because of the automated and irrevocable decision-making process which rules out human meddling, the Doomsday machine is terrifying and simple to understand... and completely credible and convincing". - Dr Strangelove - yeah. makes sense huh.

What if all they want enrichment for is nuclear power..? \= |
Or, ya know, the right of self determination?

"The state of human rights in the Islamic Republic of Iran has been criticized both by Iranians and international human right activists...
The government of Iran is criticized both for restrictions and punishments... such as the torture, rape, and killing of political prisoners, and the beatings and killings of dissidents and other civilians....
...execution of offenders under 18 years of age, restrictions on freedom of speech and the press (including the imprisonment of journalists), and restrictions on [[freedom of religion[[ and gender equality in the Islamic Republic's Constitution (especially attacks on members of the Bahá'í religion)...
...execution of thousands of political prisoners in 1988, and the widespread use of torture to extract repudiations by prisoners of their cause and comrades on video for propaganda purposes....
Under the administration of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Iran’s human rights record "has deteriorated markedly," ... --
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_Islamic_Republic_of_
Iran
Not all countries are built the same.
"right of self determination" - well, where do you draw the line? Can dictators pull this card out as well?


You are conflating two entirely different issues, and doing a bad job of it to boot...

Iran has done the same things for years, but the only thing that get's the US and Israel wet is when nuclear is involved. Don't kid yourself for a second in believing either country would go in to save the people from a dictatorial regime, all they care about is someone else dealing themselves in to the nuclear game. I suspect you know this very well of course but it makes a much more compelling case to break out the violins and claim the action is humanitarian.

>> ^Asmo:

>> ^CaptainObvious:
Fuck no.
Noam Chomsky is a genius and I agree with him almost always - but on this - no way - no.
ANY country with nuclear weaponry is a threat to everyone - let alone a country like Iran. Look what a pain in the ass we have with North Korea and Pakistan.
I remember the cold war and the persistent fear of mutual destruction and the perverse rationality behind it.
I don't want ANY country (including my own) to have nukes, least of all non-democratic countries.
Allowing them and any other non-nuclear country to have nukes is the wrong direction.
We need countries to start giving up nuclear weapons, not proliferating and spreading the disease even more.
The United States might be denying Iran nukes for the wrong reasons (OIL) and perhaps Israel for the right reasons, but frankly I don't care either way.
One less country with nukes is never a bad thing.
---------
"Mr. President, it is not only possible, it is essential. That is the whole idea of this machine, you know. Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the FEAR to attack. And so, because of the automated and irrevocable decision-making process which rules out human meddling, the Doomsday machine is terrifying and simple to understand... and completely credible and convincing". - Dr Strangelove - yeah. makes sense huh.

What if all they want enrichment for is nuclear power..? \= |
Or, ya know, the right of self determination?


"The state of human rights in the Islamic Republic of Iran has been criticized both by Iranians and international human right activists...

The government of Iran is criticized both for restrictions and punishments... such as the torture, rape, and killing of political prisoners, and the beatings and killings of dissidents and other civilians....

...execution of offenders under 18 years of age, restrictions on freedom of speech and the press (including the imprisonment of journalists), and restrictions on [[freedom of religion[[ and gender equality in the Islamic Republic's Constitution (especially attacks on members of the Bahá'í religion)...

...execution of thousands of political prisoners in 1988, and the widespread use of torture to extract repudiations by prisoners of their cause and comrades on video for propaganda purposes....

Under the administration of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Iran’s human rights record "has deteriorated markedly," ... --

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_Islamic_Republic_of_Iran

Not all countries are built the same.

"right of self determination" - well, where do you draw the line? Can dictators pull this card out as well?

You'll find no argument from me about whether our government has been rattling the hornets nest over there for some time. However, I don't place the blame for Muslim outrage on America, or the KGB, I place the blame on Islam. The reason they are so stirred up is because their religion teaches them to hate Jews, Christians, and anyone else who isn't a Muslim. In their eyes we are all the devil and need to be destroyed, or subjugated.

What's going on in the middle east right now, specifically in Iran, cannot be understood unless it is seen through the lens of their particular eschatology (beliefs about the end times). What the Iranians believe is that the coming of their Messiah, called the Mahdi, or the 12th Imam, is imminent. They believe what ushers in the Mahdis return is a series of great wars at the end of time. They also believe that Iran will be the spark to that flame. This is what Irans top general said recently:

"With having the treasure of the Holy Defense, Valayat (Guardianship of the Jurist) and martyrs, we are ready for a big war Of course this confrontation has always continued; however, since we are in the era of The Coming, this war will be a significant war

The Islamic republic is going to create a new environment on the world stage, and without a doubt victory awaits those who continue the path of martyrs. … we can defeat the enemy at its home and our nation is ready for jihad. Martyrdom has taught us to avoid wrong paths and return to the right path. Martyrdom is the right path, it’s the path to God"

http://glblgeopolitics.wordpress.com/2012/09/21/iran-official-big-war-means-mahdis-coming/

So what you have here, essentially, is a doomsday cult looking to acquire a nuclear weapon so that they can start a global war to usher in the coming of their Messiah. They believe that their Messiah will subjugate every nation under Islam and bring about worldwide sharia law.

So, everyone who thinks that the middle east is a problem we can straighten out with diplomacy, or instituting democratic reforms, is extremely foolish. It's the same with these sanctions; Iran is not going to break or change their mind. Their top general stated it in very clear terms; that they believe martyrdom is the only true path to God. It is reported that their leader, Ayatollah Khamenei, ascends to the sky (in the spirit) once a year to meet with the Mahdi, and that the Mahdi ordered him to continue the nuclear program because it would be what facilitates his coming.

http://www.wnd.com/2012/01/iran-preparing-now-for-armageddon/

If you look at Ahmadinejad's speech to the UN last week, it was all about the soon coming of the Mahdi:

http://flashtrafficblog.wordpress.com/2012/09/26/exclusive-ahmadinejad-gives-most-detailed-explanation-of-twelfth-imam-to-date-says-mahdi-will-soon-re
ign-over-whole-world/

This is why our policies in the Mideast fail again and again. Everything we try to do there ends up creating the exact opposite effect. Even when they themselves overthrow repressive governments, they end up electing even more repressive governments. It's not a problem we can solve. This is the way things are headed, and there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. Their Messiah is most likely our Antichrist and regardless of how it all comes about, the end result was predicted over 2000 years ago;

There will be a one world government, one world economy and one world religion, with the Antichrist at the head. There will be some kind of global calamity in the near future, such as an economic crisis, or perhaps a war, involving Israel, and that is when the Antichrist will enter the world stage. He will come preaching peace and safety, and will head off the calamity by establishing a 7 year peace treaty between Israel and the rest of the world. At around the 3.5 year mark the Antichrist will take off his mask and declare himself to be God, and cause the entire world to worship him. Anyone who doesn't know Jesus Christ at this time will follow the antichrist. Anyone who takes the mark of the beast will be eternally condemned. If you're curious about what the mark of the beast is, it will probably be something like this:



The purpose of the mark is to control who can buy and sell. Anyone without the mark will be unable to participate in the economic system.

Don't count on believing later, or that you won't be deceived into taking the mark, because it will be under threat of death. Today is the day of salvation, so do not harden your heart because He is calling to you. The fact is that He loves you and is knocking on your door:

Revelation 3:20

Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.

>> ^Stormsinger:

The problem with that claim is that the animosity goes back well before Pacepa's time. We overthrew the elected government of Iran in 1953, because they were threatening oil company profits. By 1967, the KGB was doing very little except throwing gasoline on a fire we'd already started and built up to four alarm status. It's not reasonable to try and put the blame on the KGB...it clearly belongs on our own government agencies, which have proven over and over again to be extremely shortsighted and unwilling to accept any ethical boundaries.

The problem with that claim is that the animosity goes back well before Pacepa's time. We overthrew the elected government of Iran in 1953, because they were threatening oil company profits. By 1967, the KGB was doing very little except throwing gasoline on a fire we'd already started and built up to four alarm status. It's not reasonable to try and put the blame on the KGB...it clearly belongs on our own government agencies, which have proven over and over again to be extremely shortsighted and unwilling to accept any ethical boundaries.
>> ^shinyblurry:

>> ^Stormsinger:
>> ^shinyblurry:
@enoch, the origin of the animosity towards Americans has its source in a KGB program designed to exploit the deeply ingrained anti-semitism in the middle east and turn it towards the US. They sent, hired, bought off hundreds or even thousands of agents in the middle east to spread the idea around that America is a zionist regime controlled by the jews. That's why you have Arab leaders saying things like this:
htt

p://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/07/ahmadinejad-american-people-lack-freedom-of-choice-it-is-the-zionists-that-decide-who-will-become-th.html
Yes I believe the corporation control the media, and the elites control the corporations, but who controls the elites? When you talk about a conspiracy, I know the actual conspiracy because the bible details it all: Satan is the ruler of this world and in the last days he is going to establish a one world government, one world economy and one world religion all centered around the antichrist. The elites you're talking about are all globalists trying to establish this very thing. Today you can see bible prophecy unfolding before your very eyes. So, I don't trust the media to report the truth as such and I certainly don't rely on it as my primary source of information about what is going on in the world.
>> ^enoch:
@shinyblurry do not get caught in the trap my friend.do not rely on corporate "news" to enlighten you concerning the situation in the middle east nor the origins of the anymosity towards america.truth does not suit their purposes in controlling your opinion

Alright! Who stole shiny's meds this time?

hehe
I know how it sounds, but this information comes from the highest ranking intelligence official ever to defect to the United States.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_Mihai_Pacepa
The CIA apparently put him to good use so I think his testimony is trustworthy. You can read what he said about it here:
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/218533/russian-footpr
ints/ion-mihai-pacepa#

>> ^Stormsinger:

>> ^shinyblurry:
@enoch, the origin of the animosity towards Americans has its source in a KGB program designed to exploit the deeply ingrained anti-semitism in the middle east and turn it towards the US. They sent, hired, bought off hundreds or even thousands of agents in the middle east to spread the idea around that America is a zionist regime controlled by the jews. That's why you have Arab leaders saying things like this:
htt

p://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/07/ahmadinejad-american-people-lack-freedom-of-choice-it-is-the-zionists-that-decide-who-will-become-th.html
Yes I believe the corporation control the media, and the elites control the corporations, but who controls the elites? When you talk about a conspiracy, I know the actual conspiracy because the bible details it all: Satan is the ruler of this world and in the last days he is going to establish a one world government, one world economy and one world religion all centered around the antichrist. The elites you're talking about are all globalists trying to establish this very thing. Today you can see bible prophecy unfolding before your very eyes. So, I don't trust the media to report the truth as such and I certainly don't rely on it as my primary source of information about what is going on in the world.
>> ^enoch:
@shinyblurry do not get caught in the trap my friend.do not rely on corporate "news" to enlighten you concerning the situation in the middle east nor the origins of the anymosity towards america.truth does not suit their purposes in controlling your opinion

Alright! Who stole shiny's meds this time?


hehe

I know how it sounds, but this information comes from the highest ranking intelligence official ever to defect to the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_Mihai_Pacepa

The CIA apparently put him to good use so I think his testimony is trustworthy. You can read what he said about it here:

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/218533/russian-footprints/ion-mihai-pacepa#