>> ^bobknight33:

I disagree. Burglars loose all their rights once they enter anothers home.
The neighbor did right. he protected himself. He should be commended.

>> ^Yogi:
Disproportionate use of force I believe it's called. Any sane person can see that this is wrong on a great many levels, the problem is the insane make the rules.



I want you to try and think really hard about a scenario where this would not be the proper way to respond. I'll give you a hint...it ended with a Beer at the White House.

I disagree. Burglars loose all their rights once they enter anothers home.

The neighbor did right. he protected himself. He should be commended.


>> ^Yogi:

Disproportionate use of force I believe it's called. Any sane person can see that this is wrong on a great many levels, the problem is the insane make the rules.

Hive, I would do the same, but this is far from what happened in this particular case.>> ^Hive13:

>> ^Yogi:
>> ^Hive13:
This happened over four years ago. Joe Horn was cleared by a grand jury in 2008. Both men were shot on Joe Horn's property and by Texas law he is within his state rights to defend his property.
Now, I am not saying that what he did was right or justified in any way, but, if two men ran onto my property after I personally witnessed them robbing my neighbor, I'd be reaching for a gun. I wouldn't be looking for a fight like this guy was, but I'd sure a shit defend my property.

No ones attacking property...they're taking it. If they had guns and were firing on your property then I'd understand. However taking your bullshit TV and knick knacks just doesn't mean a fucking thing which it comes to peoples lives period.
Now if you were say in a position where all you had was some food to live and they were stealing your food then I'd say you'd have the right to defend your life with deadly force. But this scenario would most likely have to play out in Africa or some post apocalyptic wasteland that people seem to wish would come around so they could shoot people on a whim.

So, I should just let convicted felon illegal immigrants with a vast criminal history just walk into my house and take whatever they want, in the presence of my wife and four children? What fucking planet do you live on? There are many people out there that would kill you and anyone in your house for $50.
The right to defend your property is an American right from the very beginning of this country. It isn't about property in the material sense....who cares about that? It is property in the sense that my wife and kids needs to feel safe and secure in their own home in their own beds.
In this case, I would have watched them from inside my home, called 911 and waited. If they headed toward my house, you had better believe that there would be one of my several guns in my hand ready to stop them from entering my house. If they did actually enter, they would get one warning and then they would get shot. Period.
If you don't live in America, I don't expect you to understand, but we have a lot of bad people here with bigger guns and no issue at all with murdering an entire family, kids and all, for an Xbox.

Essentially you are saying you support a blood-thirsty murderer over two property-coveting thieves. Whoopee.

>> ^rottenseed:

I don't feel bad about the two men that were shot, however, nobody's life was at risk so I can't really backup the guy that shot them. There is a chance, however, that he might be unaware of the well-being of his neighbors (ie, they might have been inside, injured, or incapacitated). Both parties took risks, if I had to measure which one's risk was for the right reasons, I'd lean toward the side of the shooter. It's not a pretty situation. Not all situations have a pretty solution.

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>> ^Hive13:

>> ^Yogi:
>> ^Hive13:
This happened over four years ago. Joe Horn was cleared by a grand jury in 2008. Both men were shot on Joe Horn's property and by Texas law he is within his state rights to defend his property.
Now, I am not saying that what he did was right or justified in any way, but, if two men ran onto my property after I personally witnessed them robbing my neighbor, I'd be reaching for a gun. I wouldn't be looking for a fight like this guy was, but I'd sure a shit defend my property.

No ones attacking property...they're taking it. If they had guns and were firing on your property then I'd understand. However taking your bullshit TV and knick knacks just doesn't mean a fucking thing which it comes to peoples lives period.
Now if you were say in a position where all you had was some food to live and they were stealing your food then I'd say you'd have the right to defend your life with deadly force. But this scenario would most likely have to play out in Africa or some post apocalyptic wasteland that people seem to wish would come around so they could shoot people on a whim.

So, I should just let convicted felon illegal immigrants with a vast criminal history just walk into my house and take whatever they want, in the presence of my wife and four children? What fucking planet do you live on? There are many people out there that would kill you and anyone in your house for $50.
The right to defend your property is an American right from the very beginning of this country. It isn't about property in the material sense....who cares about that? It is property in the sense that my wife and kids needs to feel safe and secure in their own home in their own beds.
In this case, I would have watched them from inside my home, called 911 and waited. If they headed toward my house, you had better believe that there would be one of my several guns in my hand ready to stop them from entering my house. If they did actually enter, they would get one warning and then they would get shot. Period.
If you don't live in America, I don't expect you to understand, but we have a lot of bad people here with bigger guns and no issue at all with murdering an entire family, kids and all, for an Xbox.


WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?!? It wasn't his home...his neighbors weren't fucking there. They were absolutely NO THREAT. Are you just making shit up to get mad about or something?

Also yes I live in America, I've lived in some of the worst areas of Southern California. Never had a problem because this epidemic of bad people coming into your home and murdering you doesn't exist.

>> ^Yogi:

>> ^Hive13:
This happened over four years ago. Joe Horn was cleared by a grand jury in 2008. Both men were shot on Joe Horn's property and by Texas law he is within his state rights to defend his property.
Now, I am not saying that what he did was right or justified in any way, but, if two men ran onto my property after I personally witnessed them robbing my neighbor, I'd be reaching for a gun. I wouldn't be looking for a fight like this guy was, but I'd sure a shit defend my property.

No ones attacking property...they're taking it. If they had guns and were firing on your property then I'd understand. However taking your bullshit TV and knick knacks just doesn't mean a fucking thing which it comes to peoples lives period.
Now if you were say in a position where all you had was some food to live and they were stealing your food then I'd say you'd have the right to defend your life with deadly force. But this scenario would most likely have to play out in Africa or some post apocalyptic wasteland that people seem to wish would come around so they could shoot people on a whim.


So, I should just let convicted felon illegal immigrants with a vast criminal history just walk into my house and take whatever they want, in the presence of my wife and four children? What fucking planet do you live on? There are many people out there that would kill you and anyone in your house for $50.

The right to defend your property is an American right from the very beginning of this country. It isn't about property in the material sense....who cares about that? It is property in the sense that my wife and kids needs to feel safe and secure in their own home in their own beds.

In this case, I would have watched them from inside my home, called 911 and waited. If they headed toward my house, you had better believe that there would be one of my several guns in my hand ready to stop them from entering my house. If they did actually enter, they would get one warning and then they would get shot. Period.

If you don't live in America, I don't expect you to understand, but we have a lot of bad people here with bigger guns and no issue at all with murdering an entire family, kids and all, for an Xbox.

>> ^Hive13:

This happened over four years ago. Joe Horn was cleared by a grand jury in 2008. Both men were shot on Joe Horn's property and by Texas law he is within his state rights to defend his property.
Now, I am not saying that what he did was right or justified in any way, but, if two men ran onto my property after I personally witnessed them robbing my neighbor, I'd be reaching for a gun. I wouldn't be looking for a fight like this guy was, but I'd sure a shit defend my property.


No ones attacking property...they're taking it. If they had guns and were firing on your property then I'd understand. However taking your bullshit TV and knick knacks just doesn't mean a fucking thing which it comes to peoples lives period.

Now if you were say in a position where all you had was some food to live and they were stealing your food then I'd say you'd have the right to defend your life with deadly force. But this scenario would most likely have to play out in Africa or some post apocalyptic wasteland that people seem to wish would come around so they could shoot people on a whim.

>> ^braindonut:

Some people watch too many cowboy movies and dream of getting to play hero... I'm surprised he even called 911.

He wanted to make sure his "heroism" was properly recorded for posterity.

At least a death sentence involves a trial!>> ^Enzoblue:

No one deserves a death sentence for stealing.

Unless the shooter was a cop. Then it's perfectly legal! = ]

Yes, it's fucked up and wrong to shoot an unarmed person in the back.
And yes, Mr. Horn should sit in jail for a few years to think about what he's done.

However, it's pretty dumb to rob people in a state full of gun nuts.

Twas a calculated risk that didn't pan out.
>> ^notarobot:

Not a defensible legal reason for shooting a loaded firearm into another human being. >> ^GenjiKilpatrick:
that sucks.
but then again.. shouldn't have been burglin'.

Not a defensible legal reason for shooting a loaded firearm into another human being. >> ^GenjiKilpatrick:

that sucks.
but then again.. shouldn't have been burglin'.

WITH GOOD CAUSE:

On November 21, 1980, the Los Angeles fire department responded to a 911 call from Henley's house. Inside they found an unconscious 16-year-old prostitute who later was determined to have overdosed on cocaine. Henley pleaded no contest to a misdemeanor charge of contributing to the delinquency of a minor and received two years' probation.


There's just not enough love in the world.

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

Little known fact: Most cats are allergic to Don Henley.

This is why I'm glad I'm not living in the USA. Every idiot (or non-idiot) can carry a gun, every idiot (or non idiot) can become governour, every idiot (or non idiot) can applaud the fact that human beings have been killed - by the very same state that should protect the lives of each of their citizens. Some might call this freedom and liberty, some I call it irresponsible.

Just a judgement call, but would bet the applauding audience wasn't made up entirely of Texans, and pretty sure that Texas isn't the only state with a death penalty, so why the title "...Welcome to Texas...". Why not one of the other 34 states that have a death penalty, or hey, why not "Welcome to California" where the debate was actually held, and presumably Californians made up a good chunk of the applauding audience(?).

Oh, and DerHasisttot... putting a needle into these psychopathic reprobates is a great way to protect citizens of the state. Next time one of these 'reformed' mass murdering fuckheads kicks your door in and threatens to rape your wife, kill your kids and burn your house down, good luck with the 911 call. I'm sure your new houseguest will give you some time to reflect on your upstanding humanitarianism, and whether your principles will keep you from getting skull fucked after he shoots you in the head. Me, I'd sooner have the gun. Not a great way to live, but at least you live.

>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:

very interested what QM and the like have to say on this.


If you have the option of choosing your arguments...pick them carefully...and don't pick this one lol.