I blame Walt Whitman.

"Walt Whitman?! AHHHHHHHH DAMN YOU WALT WHITMAN!!! I. Hate. You. Walt. Freaking. Whitman. Leaves of Grass my Ass!!!"

As I stand aloof and look, there is to me something
profoundly affecting in large masses of men,
following the lead of those who do not believe
in men.

--Walt Whitman

As I stand aloof and look, there is to me something
profoundly affecting in large masses of men,
following the lead of those who do not believe
in men.

--Walt Whitman

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

Gliding Over All

GLIDING o'er all, through all,
Through Nature, Time, and Space,
As a ship on the waters advancing,
The voyage of the soul--not life alone,
Death, many deaths I'll sing.

Walt Whitman

Hey, thannks for the leads. I just watched some of Midnight in Paris, and realised I'd never read the classics. Would you suggest I start with your Connecticut one?
In reply to this comment by jonny:
[edit] woops, meant to reply on the talk post.

Twain is a great choice - definitely read A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court. It's LOL funny. Some of my favorites among the American classics are Poe, Emerson, Washington Irving, Walt Whitman, Joseph Heller, Vonnegut (is he counted as classic yet?). Edgar Allen Poe is a must. I first read The Pit and the Pendulum in my 30s and it scared the shit out of me. He clearly had access to the best drugs available in the world at the time. Other top Poe choices - The Black Cat, The Cask of Amontillado, and The Tell-Tale Heart.
In reply to this comment by kymbos:
I'm reading Chuck Palahniuk's Fight Club, which is a pretty good page turner.

I'm interested in reading some classic American literature if anyone would recommend some for a guy who has never really read any of the classics (like Mark Twain, Hemmingway, Fitzgerald).

I'm green.

Twain is a great choice - definitely read A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court. It's LOL funny. Some of my favorites among the American classics are Poe, Emerson, Washington Irving, Walt Whitman, Joseph Heller, Kurt Vonnegut, Gore Vidal (are those last two counted as classic yet?). Edgar Allen Poe is a must. I first read The Pit and the Pendulum in my 30s and it scared the shit out of me. He clearly had access to the best drugs available in the world at the time. Other top Poe choices - The Black Cat, The Cask of Amontillado, and The Tell-Tale Heart.
In reply to this comment by kymbos:
I'm reading Chuck Palahniuk's Fight Club, which is a pretty good page turner.

I'm interested in reading some classic American literature if anyone would recommend some for a guy who has never really read any of the classics (like Mark Twain, Hemmingway, Fitzgerald).

I'm green.

[edit] woops, meant to reply on the talk post.

Twain is a great choice - definitely read A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court. It's LOL funny. Some of my favorites among the American classics are Poe, Emerson, Washington Irving, Walt Whitman, Joseph Heller, Vonnegut (is he counted as classic yet?). Edgar Allen Poe is a must. I first read The Pit and the Pendulum in my 30s and it scared the shit out of me. He clearly had access to the best drugs available in the world at the time. Other top Poe choices - The Black Cat, The Cask of Amontillado, and The Tell-Tale Heart.
In reply to this comment by kymbos:
I'm reading Chuck Palahniuk's Fight Club, which is a pretty good page turner.

I'm interested in reading some classic American literature if anyone would recommend some for a guy who has never really read any of the classics (like Mark Twain, Hemmingway, Fitzgerald).

I'm green.

DFT,

I think Sam is prepared to make the distinction between moderate and radical Islam - and I believe he does. Still, it is true that he writes that religious moderation creates the foundation for religious extremism.

The problem is Hedges is greatly misrepresenting Sam's sentiment. He does not present the scenario in the detail or terms that Sam does in regard to the nuclear first strike or the use of torture. To generalize as he has done paints Sam's comments as advocating for a nuclear first strike against 'muslims'. That simply isn't true.


I think Sam would say if any group (religous, political, ideological) came to power somewhere in the world and had the means and will to deploy WMD we may be forced into a 'First Strike'.

I agree with you that the Middle East despises the US for its constant violence and meddling in their affairs. However, it seems that a perverted form of Islam is still used to motivate many of the 'foot soldiers.' It really isn't an either/or. You have blow back that expresses itself through the regional religion.

Chris Hedges, like David Eagleman, wants to represent the 'new atheists' as something that they are not - closed minded zealots with a blood-thirst. Having read of Sam and Hitchens' work do you really believe that represents them?


The smearing that Hedges is doing is similar to how atheist were dealt with near the turn of the 20th century when they were grouped with the unpopular fascist, socialist/communist, and darwinist. "Stalin was a socialist atheist, look what he did!"

Are Sam and Hitchens intolerant of people or of bad ideas? There is a big difference, and I reckon it is the latter.



Furthermore - Hedges here states that there is nothing in "human nature or human history to support that we are collectively morally moving forward as a species." (2:01 in the video) Really? Has Hedges bothered to read Sam's book Moral Landscape?

Steve Pinker on the Myth of Violence

Does Hedges posit then that we cannot progress morally? Slavery has been abolished, women were finally given the right to vote and equal rights, violence is on the decline globally... yet we are not collectively improving morally? Sorry Chris but the evidence is not in your favor.



I am pleased to see atheist coming back out. Thomas Paine, Walt Whitman, Thomas Huxley, Richard Ingersoll...Harris, Hitchens, Dawkins. Marching foward.

In closing - All opinions matter, but informed opinions matter more. That is why knowledge is good and ignorance is evil.

-Kevin

"First of all, it's a beautiful day, and I don't know what the hell you're doing inside."

Even Walt Whitman would agree, in this case, that it's worth staying indoors to listen to the learn'd astronomer.

Walt Whitman - Leaves of Grass

The "message" is all over the board, and the way the narrator uses the word "enslavement" reminds me of putting one's hand up to a flashlight beam so the shadow looks huge. Really, if you're going to ramble on about enslavement, start small. You're "enslaved" by your body, you will always need oxygen culled from air. You're "enslaved" by your own belly and the need for food. Except for a few lucky space/moon douchebags, most of us will forever be enslaved by gravity and the earth, never leaving it except to fly to Chicago on peanut-free airliners. You're "enslaved" by your loved ones who demand your time and energy to survive, with no permanent guarantee they will reciprocate. You're "enslaved" by your friends, their opinions, your opinions and the balance of honesty versus hurting feelings needlessly. And so on.

The State is "that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." We know this. The narrator was closest to the current truth when he described governments as mafias. But we've come a long way from the days when tyrants could execute whomever they wished at any time. At least in the "less enslaved" parts of the globe.

"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." --G. Washington.

Modern civilization depends on the one lousy master, or a few masters with powers divided, rather than the whims of 100 million little ones, for when anarchy reigns, the neighbor with the biggest guns and posse wins out. S/he may be benevolent today but not tomorrow. And so ...to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed...

Why do vids like this ultimately fail? Mostly due to vagueness and having no real answers, but mainly because they assume that in every epoch the State is all-powerful and all-knowing, when history proves none of them has it 100% correct, or even 30% correct. Governments rise and fall like tides. Sometimes they have no idea what they're doing, at others they know the right things to do but don't or won't do them for any number of reasons.

So what does this all mean? Relax. Grab a beer. Light up a joint. Per quantum mechanics or string theory or something, you both exist and do not exist right now. You are both free and "enslaved". Have a nice evening. I will, for I have pr0n!

O Me! O Life!

By Walt Whitman

O me! O life! of the questions of these recurring,
Of the endless trains of the faithless, of cities fill'd with the foolish,
Of myself forever reproaching myself, (for who more foolish than I,
and who more faithless?)
Of eyes that vainly crave the light, of the objects mean, of the
struggle ever renew'd,
Of the poor results of all, of the plodding and sordid crowds I see
around me,
Of the empty and useless years of the rest, with the rest me intertwined,
The question, O me! so sad, recurring--What good amid these, O me, O life?

Answer.
That you are here--that life exists and identity,
That the powerful play goes on, and you may contribute a verse.

"I am as bad as the worst, but, thank God, I am as good as the best."
Walt Whitman

All the best, MG.

Dylan was the Walt Whitman of our era.

Who will replace him?

Who will take that stand?