I know I've been just kind of a wallflower on this website for years, but I just want to take a moment to tell y'all that I appreciate the long form generally civil conversations you guys have on here about topics which tend to garner incredibly uncivil discussion.

Maybe that's the perk to being a wallflower that I keep missing.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'Springsteen, Wallflowers, One Headlight, VMA, MTV, Jake Dylan, owned' to 'Springsteen, Wallflowers, One Headlight, VMA, MTV, Jakob Dylan, owned' - edited by doogle

Things i noticed:

- Isn't it a bit sexist of her to assume that the robots in transformers weren't their equivalent of female?
- Ditto District 9, though we couldn't pronounce their names nor tell if they were conversing.
- I thought there was a bit in watchmen where older/younger silk spectre spoke about something other than a man - at least for a bit.
- The bourne supremacy has 2 named women talking to each other about old assassination missions and capturing a rogue assassin. As does the third one because it follows directly on from the second. Does this qualify as 'talking about a man'? If so, that is a very arbitrary line to be drawn.
- Isn't wall-e about robots?
- Austin Powers are films lampooning the objectifying of women/the wallflower stereotype.
- The wedding singer has the two named sisters talking about the degree of tongue acceptable at weddings. Again, i say that if you can bend the rules to say that is technically 'talking about a man', then you could equally bend them another way in this and other examples.
- ^ Such as X-men where there are many group conversations involving named women. I'm not an expert on those films so i can't say for sure if there's a clear conversation between 2 named women, but group convo's with multiple named women there are.
- Interview with a vampire has a conversation between the child vampire (who is of course a woman trapped in a child's body, this is a big point in the film) and the woman selected to be bitten to be her mother, both are named.

If you make a film based anywhere in history past 50-60 years ago, you're going to hit the culture factor. You can't just manufacture women into places where they wouldn't have been in a time where women were not considered equal. You may as well complain about racism in a film taking place when black people were used in slavery.
- Shawshank
- Pirates
- Gladiator

There are films with a very powerful and strong female protagonist battling against the odds and coming out on top. Some of these films don't even pass the test - how can this be when it's basically saying "Women can be better/stronger than men?"
- GI Jane (vs. GI Joe) - fights against all the odds and eventually shows people how wrong they were.
- Fifth element - she saves him, he saves her, she saves the planet?
- Alien 3
- Tomb Raider
- Arguably 'Wanted'

^ It almost feels like she's mocking her own theory/criticism by naming these films. "Hey look everyone, even films with a super-strong female character kicking everyone's ass and showing how women aren't wallflowers........................is perpetuating the stereotype that women are submissive wallflowers!"

It's almost like naming examples of where the theory fails to be true. Which ...renders the theory useless?

I do think there's a point to be made, but i don't think it's as bad as they want to believe it is, and i certainly don't think that this is demonstrated by the films listed. Show films like pulp fiction, se7en, etc. even fight club. Those convince me. The others make me think "I don't think these people will be happy until we make 2 versions of every film with the sexes mirror'd."

If they can't value the fifth element, alien and tomb raider as films that fight against a stereotype, when exactly are they going to be happy?

RE: A musical mind fuck

The one my friend posted on Facebook is slightly different. I'm just showing you her answers since I did yours instead. )

Cheers,
Leah


1. Open your library (iTunes, Winamp, Media Player, iPod, etc)
2. Put it on shuffle
3. Press play
4. For every question, type the song that's playing
5. When you go to a new question, press the next button
6. Don't lie and try to pretend you're cool...

OPENING CREDITS: No Need to Argue - The Cranberries

WAKING UP: Rise - Flobots

FIRST DAY AT SCHOOL: Joy to the World - Three Dog Night

FALLING IN LOVE: Oh Lady Be good! - Ella Fitzgerald

FIGHT SONG: June - Pete Yorn

BREAKING UP: Sleepwalker - The Wallflowers

PROM: Halloween - Dave Matthews Band

LIFE'S OK: Somewhere I Belong - Linkin Park

MENTAL BREAKDOWN: All My Friends - Counting Crows

DRIVING: From Yesterday - 30 Seconds to Mars

FLASHBACK: Good Luck Charm - Elvis Presley

GETTING BACK TOGETHER: Peaceful Easy Feeling - The Eagles

BIRTH OF CHILD: Sofa Song - The Kooks

WEDDING: Helena - My Chemical Romance

FINAL BATTLE: I Won't dance - Ella Fitzgerald

DEATH SCENE: Joe Harper Saturday Morning - Van Morrison

FUNERAL SONG: Disenchanted - My Chemical Romance

END CREDITS: Seaside - The Kooks

Yeah, that life thing comes out of nowhere.

There was this kid girl from Norway who used to have wallflower.nu. She started it when she was still a little brat and it was always a bright spot in my day to pop in there and see what she was up to. So precocious. She changed her name and was going to be a web designer. She changed her website every other week or so.

Then, she grew up.

I think she broke up with her boyfriend and now she's going to be a teacher. Everything seems like it's going to be fine in her life, but that hopeful, dreamy, slightly bratty kid is gone and now she's a young adult, a little cynical and already tired of the work-a-day grind.

^

I didn't think it was competitive. And I will certainly concede that I and others like me could be reading too much into it. But what is at first both of them leading quickly turns into Bruce driving the song, could it just be that he was a better showman? Who knows? Also the significant downturn the Wallflowers took after this, they still released music but never gained the massive popularity they had then

You know these people talk a big game... but once someone who knows what they are talking about wants to dance they act the wallflower. You have no idea how much it pisses me off.

>> ^kronosposeidon:
<deleted to end the argument>

Oh but... oh but...

xxovercastxx:
"I have not labeled anyone a "brainless dipshit" for liking this song. "
And
I specifically said I don't have any issue with people who like this song, so I'm starting to think you all just enjoy being offended and/or arguing.

Except that your original comment was You know how sometimes you have one of those moments where you just realize that you're surrounded by brainless dipshits? This song at the height of its success was the biggest such moment I can recall.

That's what sent us all off... You did label those who enjoy it as brainless dipshits via that comment, and that's what gave us cause for some 'discussion'.

Later you honed that comment to be more along the lines of that you hate people who suggest that this is a great song, which I tend to agree with, but at the same time if said people also enjoyed a wide range of music with integrity and artistic value as well, are they not allowed to think a simplistic, catchy tune is also great?

Still, I'll join in the lament of really great music not being appreciated by the masses, but enjoy listening to what I enjoy.

And to illustrate the point that I have no claim to 'great taste'... here is some of the artists on high rotation in my media player:
The Beatles, Metallica, VAST, The Waifs, Live, The Whitlams, Bryan Adams, Enigma, Chris Isaak, Barenaked Ladies, The Tea Party, David Gray, Green Day, Era, Bernard Fanning, Dave Matthews Band, Marcy Playground, Regina Spektor, INXS, Vivaldi, Pink, Missy Higgins, Meat Loaf, The Wallflowers.

See... in that small sample of what I enjoy I'm sure most people would have some that they'd go 'Nice' to, some they'd go 'Oh my god, how embarrassing', some they go 'Who?' and so on... everyone has different tastes, different RANGE of tastes. I enjoy many, many other artists than those few I just grabbed off my media player, and within them there are sure to be more cringe worthy artists, more 'who's, more 'nice'... let everyone enjoy the full range of what they enjoy.

Yes you did, Karaidl. It was kind of like "twit," and "twat." Easy to score points on that, eh? The second offender usually is the one who gets noticed. It's the NFL referee effect of comment posting.

The point here, though, is this. I'm not that funny or insightful, controversial or contentious. I'm the wallflower variety of commenter; not nearly as meteoric as you (who seems to garner lots of upvotes). As there have been a plethora of upvotes in my direction over the last three days, I, therefore, declare the Sift officially broken.

Someone please fix it!

OK, I haven't weighed in for a while. I'm still with the "get over it" camp. But, at the risk of being labeled a "bleeding heart", the comments in this thread have brought to mind lyrics from an old 10cc album of mine, "Bloody Tourists", which, by the way, I recommend....

For the wallflowers out there...

"She may be quiet
She may be shy
But don't you bring her down
Don't pass her by
The world of wisdom behind her eyes
Could answer everything
But you and I
We seem to wander in a daydream (ooh ooh)
We never look around
The world is full of other people (ooh ooh)
And we put 'em down....

She's not beautiful
But don't make it plain
You underestimate
It's not a game
A heart of gold
Behind the drab
Would comfort anyone
But you and I
Should try to see it from the other side (oooh)
We'll get a shock
It could surprise you
The world is full of other people (ooh ooh)
Take a look around....
To wonder why
The world keeps turning
For you and I"

I may have a solution....like any habit, skill, or discipline, one must develop social skills which afford the meat-bot meaningful connections with their fellow sentients...sure, would have helped if the imprint was in place, but you can thank yer dweebish, wallflower parents for that- no use whining about it now-One must develop interaction skills, by stepping out every once in a while.....force yourself to interact with other humans in the flesh, of else that particular withering branch of yer tree will wither, and you'll end up twisted crank-The world is fast approaching some fiendish unfriendly experio-scape, so times' a wastin'! Interact. Press the flesh. Fuck, go do the free hug thing....or else you wanna end up like the cat lady?? She's hot, but not.

I see a future world of paranoid, fear-motivated automatons headed our way, and the programmers have had yer number, for some time now....gotta break outta that shit, and teach yourself to derrive meaning from the sea of bullshit dysfunction, we call, modern society in the west.......

Look at China....an example of conformity I for one hope explodes into majick, at N. Korea, as the fucking middle east.....What would help to make these "communities" more dynamic?......a freekin' brain douche, that's what!!! Mushrooms for everyone!!!!