>> ^chilaxe:

Has Nader taken responsibility yet for being such a negative influence on liberalism? A lot of people will have been affected by the Iraq war, justices Roberts and Alito for the next 30 years, and the worst oil spill in US history.


In other words, "shut up and do as you're told."

Laying the blame for those things at Nader's feet is a pretty loathsome act.

Nader represents a lot of leftists, like myself, who are continuously marginalized and belittled by those "sensible" mainstream liberals who are "just being realistic."

"Just being sensible" like almost all of the Democrats we have in office now, who still can't get anything done even with the sizable majority voters gave them two years ago.

You Democrats...you want my vote, you want my support, but then you want me to just shut up and go away.

I've had it.

Has Nader taken responsibility yet for being such a negative influence on liberalism? A lot of people will have been affected by the Iraq war, justices Roberts and Alito for the next 30 years, and the worst oil spill in US history.

Being a leader carries responsibility, even if the masses will follow the same leaders no matter what. Taking responsibility is good because it implies a person will try in the future to avoid the error in reasoning that led to the mission failure.

Taking responsibility also protects the reputation of liberalism. Defend it with your life.

Only in America can a Congressman, who takes in the most amount of political contributions from the industry he regulates and whose state borders the largest man-made catastrophes in US history, apologize to the company that created the largest man-made catastrophe in US history for "a shakedown."

Fuck you, you gerrymandered tick. It's the fault of enablers like you that this happened.

@lampishthing I think the main cost savings would be in terms of supplies -- ammo, food, fuel, base construction and maintenance, replacing destroyed vehicles and other equipment, etc.

I'm not really worried about what will happen to the military with no wars to fight. That should be their normal state. As it is, all the stories I hear are that the soldiers fighting now have done more combat tours than almost any military in US history, so I'd be more than happy to give them the opportunity to retire.

When Ronald Reagan "inherited" the mess that spineless anti-Semite socialist neo-maxie-zoom-dweebie James Carter left behind, America was nearly lost. In two years, Reagan's policies turned the country around and the 1980s were one of the most vibrant economic periods in US history. And all Reagan did was unleash the dynamic will of the American people, lowering taxes so people could keep more of what they earned. Government isn't the solution to our problems, government IS the problem.

In two years obamarx could have turned America away from the European model, nations going bankrupt one after the other because socialism always flops in the long run, human nature being what it is.

Instead The One is attempting to put America on the same path tried for 80 years in the soviet union. Government central planning is a total failure and communism is responsible for 100 million deaths around the globe.

Doesn't matter if you give obamarx 4 years (likely!) or 40, his policies have about as much effectiveness as trying to scrub a shadow off a sidewalk.

Blaming Bush changes nothing HERE and NOW. Government cannot tax or spend us into prosperity.

November 2nd, 2010 we'll see who's awake.



>> ^Marzden:

Bush had 8 years to fuck everything up big time and you expect obama whose only been in office for 2 to get it all right immediately? Wake the fuck up this aint a computer game, fixing the shit that bush left behind is going to take years.

related (and unsifted)
http://videosift.com/video/Gulf-Oil-Spill-One-of-Worst-in-US-History

This bill ignores the real problem. Not justly dealing with the illegal immigration problem that exists in the western states. Tijuana any one, or Nogales? What about the 100 mile inland search and identify checkpoints? I was stopped but never searched every time I went from Arizona to Texas; I was questioned as well.

That's the hardest thing about this bill is that it seems to be doing some good, when in reality it is not. It skirts the issues, and only tightens its grip around civil rights and the freedom of citizens to move from place to place; without fear of repercussion or because of their pigmentation. It also puts a heavy hammer over the police to force them to do their jobs; whatever that may be.

There is an illegal immigration issue, but it hardly requires racist, or unconstitutional laws to solve it. As stereotypical as this sounds, a large amount of people will think that if a bill is not in place then illegal immigrants will get a free ride. That does a disservice to all Naturalized Citizens(Some of which may be more informed of US history than any Naturally Born Citizen), and it disenfranchises the conservative right; hardly needed at the moment.

Whether it is liked or not; illegal immigration is Illegal and that will probably never change.

I don't really remember Obama selling weapons to Iran either.

Or starting the "War on Drugs"

Or tripling the national debt.

Or lying to Congress.

Or enacting the largest tax increase in history

Or arming and training the Mujahedeen (including one Osama Bin-Laden)

Or attempting to overthrow the the Sandinista revolution in Nicaragua, resulting in mass slaughter.

Or deregulating the media

Or deregulating the SNL industry, resulting in a massive financial collapse

Or selling chemical weapons to Saddam Hussein

Or denying the threat of AIDS/HIV

Or...

Or...

But Obama hasn't been in office long enough to see if he can match Ronnie's record of having "The Most Corrupt Administration in US History" with 135 members of his admin indicted or investigated.

Aren't the nativism, paranoia, and economic populism that are regular occurrences throughout US history a closer analog than Nazism? Or is this just meant as wishful thinking?

The anti-war left doesn't exist anymore? You haven't been in Washington in the last week or so have you Paul?

(I shouldn't say anti-war, thats a misnomer and a republican buzzword, like pro-abortion. More accurately its people who are simply 'against this war.')

I think that Obama will get us out of Afganistan, but he's not stupid, he knows that pulling out immediately does nothing for us. We are in this war BECAUSE we pulled out of a war there to fast last time. When Russia was at war with the country we backed the 'freedom fighters' there. They called themselves Taliban. We armed them, we put them in power and after we built a few bases there we left with hardly a word. This is something the US has done time and time again throughout US history. I once had a history teacher who said basically 'The US is great at fighting wars, but we are terrible at ending them and negotiating after the war has ended.' I disagreed with him then but I absolutely agree with him today.

Besides that I don't think America will ever be without some battle going on somewhere or bombing somewhere or some war (legal or not,) simply because for a solid portion of this country, being at war is a national past time. But largely because we have this 4th wing of government in this country called the Pentagon and US Military Industrial Complex.

If this whole drawn out process turns out to be a slowly built up plan designed to drop a boulder on the opposition once they've exhausted themselves then it will be one of the most masterful political maneuvers in US history. It would also change the political dynamic for good during the Obama administration by demonstrating to the crack-pots on the right that their shenanigans are ineffective.

I remain optimistic that the public option will return with strength when the moment is right. I have to maintain that optimism because we need this administration to turn the tide against the ultra-conservative forces that have been crippling this country for the past 8 years. It's become far too easy for the mindless zombie right wing fanatics to manipulate all of us.

Most textbooks today already ARE whitewashed versions of actual history. Historical figures are presented and mythical hero's who either surpassed incredible odds at great peril, or were practical saints. Here's just a couple bits you will almost certainly never learn in a high school classroom.

a) Helen Keller - Blind and Deaf, everyone has probably seen the scene where she learns finally how to sign under the water from a pump. What you don't know was that after graduating from college she joined the Socialist Party and hailed the coming of Socialism. (She had good reasons for this, look her up if your interested)

b) Woodrow Wilson - Despite receiving a large black vote into office, the man created many policies that were as he was in fact, extremely racist. This cause at least in part, the large resurgence of white supremacist racism during the late part of his term and afterwards.

I could go on about the atrocities that Columbus committed as well. The plain fact is that US History as taught in high school today centers EVERYTHING on Europe having "accomplished" everything first. And this crazy overprotective moron wants to whitewash it even further.

The liberal side seems (for the moment), to have a heavy percentage of comprisers then fanatics. Were as conservatives, have a heavy amount of fanatics to comprisers.

I'd say that both sides are almost entirely composed of fanatics. Also, I reject the concept that government needs to 'get things done'. Some of the BEST, most productive legislative sessions in US history were times when the government was 100% deadlocked.

My opinion is that the LESS government accomplishes in a session, the better that government is. The fewer agenda items that pass, the better. When government does nothing, the people prosper.

Being a bigger fan of REM than I am of modern US history, I had wondered about the exact context of the Exhuming McCarthy song. Thanks for posting.

Yeah - the 'ask audience' question really is best when it is confined to questions that are general knowledge. The Fresca thing was very specific to Presidential/US history, and asking the general public that kind of question is not going to produce a reliable result. People who use the audience for the last 5 questions are usually making a mistake. Use that puppy in questions 1-7 if you need it.

But above all - if you're not 100% certain then DON'T GUESS! Take what you've got and run.