This is one of the best atheist vs. theist debates I've seen. The Rabbi articulates just about the only way one can justify theism, though I'm not sure it's a viewpoint that's entirely compatible with the religions of the Book--more with 19th century Transcendentalism or Theosophy. In reply, Sam Harris responds with fairly good lines of argument which follow more or less straightforwardly from an empiricist viewpoint.

The one thing I would like to see Sam Harris do would be to clarify that it's not science specifically which he's using to attack theism, but the philosophical position underpinning science--empiricism. The real substance of the disagreement between Rabbi Wolpe and Harris is a disagreement about the importance of empirically justifying one's beliefs.

Wolpe is correct when he says that belief in God is a philosophical claim. Harris could more effectively respond by showing how it is that philosophical claims fail when subjected to adequate philosophical attacks.

awsome awsome awsome! i've always wanted to know more about sigur ros... Never really knew much to begin with, just loved the hell out of them. Their music is transcendental, brilliant, beautiful, and powerful. Now if only I had a clue on how to pronounce any of my favorite songs of theirs :-S

*promote

Turn, now, to politics. Consider, for example, a campaign for the Presidency. Would it be possible to imagine anything more uproariously idiotic - a deafening, nerve-wracking battle to the death between Tweedledum and Tweedledee, Harlequin and Sganarelle, Gobbo and Dr. Cook - the unspeakable, with fearful snorts, gradually swallowing the inconceivable? I defy any one to match it elsewhere on this earth. In other lands, at worst, there are at least intelligible issues, coherent ideas, salient personalities. Somebody says something, and somebody replies. But what did Harding say in 1920, and what did Cox reply? Who was Harding, anyhow, and who was Cox? Here, having perfected democracy, we lift the whole combat to symbolism, to transcendentalism, to metaphysics. Here we load a pair of palpably tin cannon with blank cartridges charged with talcum power, and so let fly. Here one may howl over the show without any uneasy reminder that it is serious, and that some one may be hurt. I hold that this elevation of politics to the plane of undiluted comedy is peculiarly American, that no-where else on this disreputable ball has the art of the sham-battle been developed to such fineness...

These videos, of this 'extreme' hippy content (meaning using the words, spiritual, transcendental, sensual etc. etc.) tend to have a high turn off factor for many, and push people away from what SHOULD be a natural thing rather than the ridiculous medical procedure it's become.

I think films that are slightly less 'hippy', like The business of being born I think, perhaps may be a better introduction as to why the medical led birthing industry has it all wrong.

(Of course I was actually quite disappointing with that film in the end where it goes all soft on the intervention side of things just because the director has a birth via c-section)

Sometimes I wish I could delete comments. Especially when they exist solely to whore votes.

I think where a lot of conflict is generated is where people try to substitute science for religion, or vice versa. When really they two are not really comparable to one another. Religion asks, and answers transcendental, or purpose-driven questions (i.e. why am I here? Is there a supreme being?) touching on the meta-physicals.

Science asks, and answers questions pertaining to our physical world (i.e. how did things start? How has life evolved?). It focuses on the tangible evidence stored in the very fabric of the world we know and live in.

Which is why science can't answer questions beyond what is physically represented. Because it has nothing to analyze.

Likewise religion cannot take transcendental events and place them in a physical light for science to analyze. It's up to the individual to rely on personal experence rather then anything tangible to others.

There was something transcendental about staring at Jessica Alba for 2 minutes and her staring back... The only thing that ruined it was I was afraid it was a shocker video that changed to a 3 week old decaying fetus halfway through.

Having used Salvia 10x several times successfully over the last several months, let me be the first to say: Respect it. These YouTube videos of kids doing bong loads of the stuff is pure looney tunes. Of course you're going to have a bad trip if you do that much all at once. Even I haven't progressed passed taking 1-2 hits in one sitting.

With all that said, it is truly a pleasant experience depending on how you use it. I have had soft music playing in a dimly lit room and have had some very transcendental experiences. I had one very pleasant trip where I felt like I had regressed back to when I was 2-3 years old, when you are making your first memories.

Other times, I've tried it a few times while playing Quake 3 and BF1942 and all I can say is, you are IN the game. Very wild. Also, tried it once while watching the TV show "The Office" and the mockumentary style lent itself perfectly to it. Made me feel like I was actually at Dunder-Mifflin Scranton branch listening to them scheme on how they were going to screw with Dwight.

But again, RESPECT the Salvia. Cause it will kick your ass.

Oh budzos, have some pride in your heritage. Humanity is unique and extraordinary; while biologically we may be "just another species of ape" our minds set us apart and, yes, elevate us.

Animals grope blindly through life, slavishly executing the commands of their instinct while we, the transcendental glory of the world, raise ourselves up; but there is another species on earth. Theists devote their lives to mal-thought and un-reason, wilfully corrupting everything beautiful in existence and worst of all, raping humanity of our evident lordship of the universe. They are ravagers and usurpers; the gnawing void that surrounds and enslaves us all. Resist, damn you.

a man whose empire will be measured in the Trillions - in his own lifetime - realizes he doesn't need to laugh OR get upset, or even Care what the peasants say or think or do.

Transcendental Wealth.

So is the scientific method a foundational belief system or is it something else? Is there a greater claim on truth that Science lays claim to, apart from calculable and measurable evidence? I also prefer science to magic, but both methods require skepticism and doubt.

If you try to sell me on the magical or transcendental powers of Hawking, Newton, or Einstein, then I am going to revolt. However, I am in total agreement with your "start calling it science or using to oppress people" statement.

I find that a few of the atheists in this forum often treat mother Science like Fundies treat the Holy Bible. Founts of unassailable and absolute truth. Rubbish.