Alright, there's a backstory.

This woman, an established ventriloquist (if you can believe it) used to crass material was given 30 minutes to prepare for a school crowd. Out of her element, she bombed. The video was posted. Picked up by the show Tosh.0. After which she got a chance for "Web Redemption", which you can check here:

http://youtu.be/11uzrWkupWo?t=1m49s

@Shepppard, could you take the time to read my post about murder jokes rather than rape jokes? See if that doesn't scare you like (some) rape jokes do most women.

And why are women scared about rape jokes like Tosh's?

Because we life in a society that doesn't recognize that there are loads of uncaught and unconvicted kiiling-for-thrill murderers, and the very real danger is not recognized NOR fought back against.

There is nothing wrong with a rape joke in a world where there is no fear of rape. There is no fear of Hitler. There is no fear of piles of dead babies. And men age 17-25 pay much higher insurance rates than anyone else -- and not because they are great drivers.

And until you get that distinction, then this is a parallel discussion. You can go on and on about freedom of speech, that no one is disagreeing with. And others will continue to try to get you to understand that there is something wrong in our society and until it is faced and addressed, the problem will never be solved.

It isn't about banning rape jokes. It is about understanding how the bloody hell you can think certain rape jokes are funny. Because in my murder scenario, I guarantee you, if you were the person singled out by that hypothetical comic, you would NOT be laughing.

Yeah I agree with Lindy on most everything, except her citations. I understand that there exists a "Trigger" that is something that's real. However there is no scientific evidence that jokes perpetuate a culture of rape. I've heard about Rape Culture a lot and I can understand where the ideas come from, like if you constantly hear only bad things about the black community what will you assume when you encounter a black person. That stuff is all very interesting and deserves to be studied, but it's not set in stone, there's simply not enough evidence for it and proper education can over come it.

I've been raised by TV, I love the show Cops when I was a kid, what I saw was violent black people. When I was conscious enough to actually THINK though I didn't come down on the side that black people are inherently violent and are responsible for their own plight. I looked at the facts, what causes the ghettos in America and what we are doing to help people take control of their lives. Basically we've been kicking them in the face since they tried to get their freedom, we've made being black a crime and have incarcerated them in large outdoor prisons.

So I agree that these things like Rape Culture have validity, what Lindy's point was is that they're facts and unimpeachable facts. I don't agree, but I certainly am ok with her calling Daniel Tosh a fucking dick for telling just a really ignorant and stupid joke.

So what I like about this debate more than anything is that it happened. That this is something people can watch and talk about on their own, and discuss with other people. It takes a lot of hard work to build up a mental defense against the onslaught of bullshit we all face everyday, you can more easily do it while commiserating with other people.

I agree with you whole heartedly, Louis CK has thought very long and hard about a lot of things and he's responsible. Daniel Tosh was on stage at a club, relatively young comic who got shitty with a girl and had a very stupid reaction. A lot of people went after him and a lot of others defended him, but it wasn't smart it was a yelling match back and forth which doesn't help anything. This conversation helped everybody on videosift because we're both soo smart bareboards.

@Yogi -- GREAT POST about freedom of speech.

Lindy agrees with you, too. She said so repeatedly. This isn't about censorship. It is about an atmosphere of violence towards women in our society that is considered acceptable, and how these "jokes" can perpetuate it. The power of language -- she even says that -- we don't agree on the power of language, she tells Norton.

As for loving Louis CK -- what I said was I have never heard him say anything that wasn't searingly honest and respectful. When he does a bit on rape, it is worlds apart from Tosh calling on men in a comedy club to rape a woman present in the room. I can't remember the bit(s) Louis has told, but I know that I have heard them and been admiring of his brilliance in tackling a difficult subject. I also do have a sense memory of "whoa, dude! that is going to piss some people off!"

Louis CK is not for everyone. And not everyone fully understands the nuance of his work (I think -- that sounds self aggrandizing, but I do believe it is true.)

hehe dead but Tosh.0 already has grabbed a bunch for next show

Dear Ant,

Can you please confirm you have "Newness" selected on the front page?

That listing is without any doubt displaying published videos in order of newest publish date. This is the listing of the latest published 15 videos as directly fetched within the database:
Best Drive Thru Prank Ever
Porn Sites (RealLifeDickParty.com) - Aziz Ansari
Everything Wrong With The Hunger Games In 4 Minutes Or Less
Close Your Eyes and Fall Down
You ever get so broke, that it just becomes funny to you?
Russian Extreme Sport Mountain Ball Ends In Tragedy
The wobbly beam of the Vela pulsar
Chinese Don't Need No Stinkin' Cannons
Tosh.0 - Uncle and Niece Talk
Male to Female - 3 Year Timeline
The Ronettes - Baby I Love You (Isolated Vocals)
New Changes to YouTube?
The new russian 5th generation stealth fighter Sukhoi T-50
Atheist TV host boots Christian for calling raped kid "evil"
Star Trek TNG - Test Footage

That listing is identical to the videos currently displayed in the front page's Newness listing.

If you'd like, you can continue pretending I'm not here and respond to Dag again, but I'm sitting right here.

Sincerely,
lucky760 (not Dag)

>> ^hpqp:

>> ^Shepppard:
This wasn't a web redemption, it was some other thing.. a web star profile thing. She didn't do anything stupid that needed redeeming.

I think it's the Tosh who needed redeeming. After the rape "joke" it was time he learned that there are proper ways to put one's foot in one's mouth!


I SEE what you did there...

>> ^Shepppard:

This wasn't a web redemption, it was some other thing.. a web star profile thing. She didn't do anything stupid that needed redeeming.


I think it's the Tosh who needed redeeming. After the rape "joke" it was time he learned that there are proper ways to put one's foot in one's mouth!

In reply to this comment by eric3579:


Ewww ... there's "Slimey Kreme" coming out of his NOSE! =o/

That's a terrible joke and in bad taste. Like Daniel Tosh, though, he has the right to say it and everything (to me at least,) is open game for comedians.

You just don't have to stick around and listen to them. Personally, I would have heckled that one though.

@hpqp

I agree with you (I think). If I'm reading your post correctly you're saying that people shouldn't be able to say something reprehensible and then hide behind the "it's just a joke" shield to avoid criticism about what they said. CK Louis was right I think--most comedians have a hard time dealing with criticism. It's easier to attack the people who don't think the joke is funny by insisting they don't have a sense of humor than it is to admit your joke bombed.

I have no idea if things went down the way the blogger says they did, but when I heard what Tosh allegedly said, my first thought was that he crossed the line. I think rape is a valid topic to joke about but he was no longer joking about rape as an abstract concept, he was basically intimidating a member of the audience in order to shut her up so he could get on with his show. No, I don't think he was serious (if he really said it) but he certainly deserved to be criticized for the alleged intimidation.

The problem (as is amply demonstrated in this thread) is that the public debate got distracted by irrelevant 1st amendment rights hysteria, discussions of which topics were "appropriate" for comedy, what is or isn't offensive, etc. when really, like you said, the issue is whether or not Tosh used the implied threat of rape to silence a critic.

Words that will never be uttered by the likes of Dan Tosh.

Which is a good thing in it's own way, I guess...

>> ^Payback:

Looks a bit like Daniel Tosh.


was totally going to say it looks like Daniel Tosh green screened himself into this one.

Looks a bit like Daniel Tosh.

Damn, I forgot to tick the "email me when comments" box and missed out on half the discussion I started

One strawman needs to be definitely burnt right now, and it's the whole "offended" thing: nowhere did I argue that a comedian (or anyone) has no right to be offensive, and @Ryjkyj is right to say that everything is offensive to someone. I agree with Steve Hughes about offensiveness. Another strawman is the whole "waaah you're attacking my free speech!" clause that is often bandied about by those who have the worst things to say (e.g. WBC or the MRA-holes on the web). Nobody's saying you shouldn't be allowed to say horrible and/or offensive things, but you should be condemned (morally and socially, not legally) for doing so, especially when what you say borders on threatening (just as an aside, @shuac, for all your 1st amendment wonderfulness in the US I'm pretty sure there are exceptions, e.g. threatening someone or, you know, yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre ).
I agree that heckling is a huge no-no, and I agree that Tosh had the right (nay, obligation) to shut her up, but the way he did it seems to say something pretty terrible about his mindset. Had it been Louis CK on stage he probably would've retorted with a hilarious rape joke, proving the woman wrong without resorting to base intimidation.

_{(As for the term "rape culture", it is a controversial concept in feminism that I only partly agree with; it would be more accurate to call it "violence against women culture", but you can see why they chose the short and shocking title.)}