If you had a little more empathy, you would see why people are so upset and angry. Anyone with a darker skinned kid is upset and concerned that murder can be so easy to commit and get away with.

And you're completely wrong when you say noone is looking at Zimmerman's side. For god's sake the guy killed a kid and he's walking free. The police and state attorneys were on his side from the start. They already said: "We can find no reason to arrest or charge Zimmerman".That's the problem. If they had arrested Zimmerman from the start none of the protest would have happened.>> ^Darkhand:

>> ^NetRunner:
I think this is part of the issue. The left's position isn't "off with Zimmerman's head!" it's "we demand a real criminal investigation!"
The people we're most mad at are the Florida police for looking the other way. I don't know if Zimmerman is guilty of a crime or not, but I'm pretty fucking sure that him shooting and killing an unarmed kid warranted more action from the police than what happened.
I don't understand why that isn't everyone's reaction. Why is the right fighting that...at all? Why has this turned into another partisan political spat?
Do you guys think killing people isn't a big deal?
>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
But you've all tried Zimmerman, convicted him, and are demanding his head on a platter based on jack-squat except a bunch of what can only be described as OPINION PIECES.

I'm not a birther but I feel the same way Winstonfield does too. Until the police say "We can find no reason to arrest or charge Zimmerman" everyone needs to be patient. Have Rallys and Prayer Vigils for the family but being so angry about it doesn't solve anything.
Killing people is a big deal and if Zimmerman wasn't defending himself then he needs to be tried and convicted as a criminal.
Let the prosecutor do her job and if she doesn't THEN hold her accountable. I feel like we've hit the "fast forwarded button" skip a year and George Zimmerman was released and the mayor presented him with a key to the and gave a speech about how Zimmerman is a great citizen for "stopping a dangerous negro".
People act like I'm defending Zimmerman when it will always seem that way because nobody else is looking at the other side of the case. Until this video came out we had no reason to NOT believe Zimmerman over what was in our individual hearts.
Now Zimmerman needs to pray that the hospital took photos of him or something looking really beat up or can explain away why in that video he looks perfectly fine.

Curious; can you outline your friend's argument?>> ^Ryjkyj:

I understand what you're saying about people seeing what they want and manipulating a tragedy to their own ends. But I have no problem with the "court of public opinion" (as influenced on the Sift by TYT) supporting the family and deciding that the initial investigation was flawed, and that Zimmerman needs to be arrested and brought to trial. Now that's happening anyway, but people are going to follow it and discuss it like they would any popular murder case.
I believe Zimmerman is a pathetic Charles Bronson wannabe, but I'm not ready to convict him. One of my friends made a very convincing case just last night that he'll get off in the end. Either way, the outcome is going to be very politically relevant to every American, no matter how they feel about it.
>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
But you've all tried Zimmerman, convicted him, and are demanding his head on a platter based on jack-squat except a bunch of what can only be described as OPINION PIECES.

>> ^NetRunner:

I think this is part of the issue. The left's position isn't "off with Zimmerman's head!" it's "we demand a real criminal investigation!"
The people we're most mad at are the Florida police for looking the other way. I don't know if Zimmerman is guilty of a crime or not, but I'm pretty fucking sure that him shooting and killing an unarmed kid warranted more action from the police than what happened.
I don't understand why that isn't everyone's reaction. Why is the right fighting that...at all? Why has this turned into another partisan political spat?
Do you guys think killing people isn't a big deal?
>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
But you've all tried Zimmerman, convicted him, and are demanding his head on a platter based on jack-squat except a bunch of what can only be described as OPINION PIECES.


I'm not a birther but I feel the same way Winstonfield does too. Until the police say "We can find no reason to arrest or charge Zimmerman" everyone needs to be patient. Have Rallys and Prayer Vigils for the family but being so angry about it doesn't solve anything.

Killing people is a big deal and if Zimmerman wasn't defending himself then he needs to be tried and convicted as a criminal.

Let the prosecutor do her job and if she doesn't THEN hold her accountable. I feel like we've hit the "fast forwarded button" skip a year and George Zimmerman was released and the mayor presented him with a key to the and gave a speech about how Zimmerman is a great citizen for "stopping a dangerous negro".

People act like I'm defending Zimmerman when it will always seem that way because nobody else is looking at the other side of the case. Until this video came out we had no reason to NOT believe Zimmerman over what was in our individual hearts.

Now Zimmerman needs to pray that the hospital took photos of him or something looking really beat up or can explain away why in that video he looks perfectly fine.

Wait, I am confused... Obama is black, and usually presumed guilty before innocent as a black man first. We agree on that 100% I assume...but the proper way to word your argument would have been, "when a black man is shot and killed by a Hispanic, you are here insisting the Hispanic guy is innocent until proven guilty."

If we say Zimmerman is for the most part white, then Obama is white too, and that's just retarded... We know society goes by racial clumping and that shit is not going to change any time soon. In fact, this is the first time I have ever heard "White Hispanic" in my life--when the Media wants to stir up shit for dollar's sake.

If it had been Zimmerman shot by a KKK member, who thinks the fucking paper would label it a white-on-white crime? Who on the sift would label it as such?

>> ^bcglorf:

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
coming from one of the most politically biased individuals to ever puke up worthless polarized talking points on the sift
I understand your fear and anger. When leftists encounter a conservative that puts forth simple, logical arguements that conflict with liberal ideology, your response is the default. Lash out. Attack. Insult. That's all the left has really got. We see it in the blogosphere right now with the Obamacare SCOTUS case. Liberals are literally gobsmacked at how Barry-boy's law has been so utterly and easily turned into swiss cheese - even though the arguments have been there for decades. Not having any intelligent, logical response to the simple, common-sense arguments, what do they do? Visit the leftist blog of your choice to see netizens stomping and bellowing like elephants - much like yourself. You suffer from the same malady, but on a smaller scale when you encounter me here on the Sift. I understand, and you have my pity.
But of course the truth is that I've never done any of the things you accuse me of. Like far too many on the left, you appear to confuse your hatred and anger towards an intellectual idea that contrasts your own with the persons present them. There is so much bologna flying around the internet about this Trevon case in particular that I have refused to take any stance whatsoever. I am not the guy tweeting the address of retirees to lynch mobs. I am not the guy putting out 'dead or alive' bounties. I'm not the guy making wild accusations based on 3rd hand internet stories, facebook comments, and media talking points which are based on rumors, innuendo, and theory. I'm just a guy saying, "chillax".
What I find loathsome is the tone of the discussion. It reminds me very much of the Duke Lacrosse case where the media latched on to a sensational story and ran with it, kicked out a narrative they liked, and pretended it was true. The whole nation tried, convicted, and demanded the execution of the Lacrosse team. The "evidence" was equally conclusive. How could a bunch of rich white boys NOT be guilty? Aaaaand then when the actual investigation happened the whole thing fell apart. I'm not saying that's the case here. I'm saying it is too early to say anything at all, and that there's a ton of agenda-based, race-inspired hype rush to jugement that is causing a lot of people on the indeological left to forget the first rule in US jurisprudence...
Innocent until proven guilty.
But you've all tried Zimmerman, convicted him, and are demanding his head on a platter based on jack-squat except a bunch of what can only be described as OPINION PIECES. The media doesn't know anything, and there are a ton of race-baiters down there in Florida that are very desperately churning up everything they can in order to advance the agenda that this was a hate crime. Frankly, I'm not buying it. I'll wait for the actual investigation. All this stuff flying around right now is obviously designed to establish a narrative before the trial - and I'm not listening to a word of it.
Why? Adam Corrola of all people nails it in his podcast...
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/03/29/Adam-Carolla-Media% 20Bias
The entire story about that "poor persecuted gay student driven to suicide by his bigoted roommate"? Yeah - it was all bullcrap. So was the Duke Lacrosse case. Again - I'm not saying that's the case here. I'm saying let's wait for some REAL data as opposed to all this clearly agenda-driven bullcrap that is designed to establish a narrative. You all think you're smart, right? Prove it for a change and stop being parrots. There's a ton of people down there throwing gas bombs so you'll react the way they want. Stop being thier tools. Shut off the news. Ignore everyone who is shouting for your attention - because they're probably a charlatan or demagogue. Just go about your business and wait for the courts to take care of this.

And yet when it comes to Obama he's guilty until proven innocent.
Your ignoring the biggest accusation leveled against you. When a black man is shot and killed by a white guy, you are here insisting the white guy is innocent until proven guilty, which is fine and nobody is even really arguing against it. The trouble is at the exact same time you go around insisting that a black man who has been accepted as president forged his birth records and was in fact born in Kenya, guilty until proven innocent, and not even a certified birth certificate accepted by the highest authority in the state is in your mind enough evidence to prove his innocence.
That contradiction of positions that paints you in a horrific light and you might want to address it rather than ignoring it.

Casey Annothny, a white woman, murdered her child or was directly negligent in her child's death. There was no looking the other way because she was white. Yet the prosecution fucked up the case. I wouldn't care how long it would take--get everything right under the law firs then arrest.

I say this because stand your ground is hard to fight against period. (Its not like other states where people should move to if they fear this shit.)

And if you want to know--the police wanted to make an arrest right away. They filed the paper work. It was the State's attorney that advised against it... (Why, I don't know?)


>> ^NetRunner:

I think this is part of the issue. The left's position isn't "off with Zimmerman's head!" it's "we demand a real criminal investigation!"
The people we're most mad at are the Florida police for looking the other way. I don't know if Zimmerman is guilty of a crime or not, but I'm pretty fucking sure that him shooting and killing an unarmed kid warranted more action from the police than what happened.
I don't understand why that isn't everyone's reaction. Why is the right fighting that...at all? Why has this turned into another partisan political spat?
Do you guys think killing people isn't a big deal?
>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
But you've all tried Zimmerman, convicted him, and are demanding his head on a platter based on jack-squat except a bunch of what can only be described as OPINION PIECES.

It is definitely racism here underscored by thoughts that people have the right to "protect" themselves, even if that protection is provoking another and responding with force--even if that protection is an overreaction(I punch you, you shoot me.)

Now, the question is does it matter if he is bleeding or not by law? The defense doesn't have to prove any injuries on Zimmerman in the first place, but the police report would probably be tossed from court if they can't explain this video (Like for example, they may have cleaned up Zimmerman before booking him.)

All this seems to me is minority on minority violence. Funny thing is, since I live close by, I hear about this shit all the times. Hispanics hate blacks and vice versa, the acrimony is insane. One said to not trust the spics but to deal with the white man because he is more the honest businessman...?

>> ^NetRunner:

I think this is part of the issue. The left's position isn't "off with Zimmerman's head!" it's "we demand a real criminal investigation!"
The people we're most mad at are the Florida police for looking the other way. I don't know if Zimmerman is guilty of a crime or not, but I'm pretty fucking sure that him shooting and killing an unarmed kid warranted more action from the police than what happened.
I don't understand why that isn't everyone's reaction. Why is the right fighting that...at all? Why has this turned into another partisan political spat?
Do you guys think killing people isn't a big deal?
>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
But you've all tried Zimmerman, convicted him, and are demanding his head on a platter based on jack-squat except a bunch of what can only be described as OPINION PIECES.

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:

coming from one of the most politically biased individuals to ever puke up worthless polarized talking points on the sift
I understand your fear and anger. When leftists encounter a conservative that puts forth simple, logical arguements that conflict with liberal ideology, your response is the default. Lash out. Attack. Insult. That's all the left has really got. We see it in the blogosphere right now with the Obamacare SCOTUS case. Liberals are literally gobsmacked at how Barry-boy's law has been so utterly and easily turned into swiss cheese - even though the arguments have been there for decades. Not having any intelligent, logical response to the simple, common-sense arguments, what do they do? Visit the leftist blog of your choice to see netizens stomping and bellowing like elephants - much like yourself. You suffer from the same malady, but on a smaller scale when you encounter me here on the Sift. I understand, and you have my pity.
But of course the truth is that I've never done any of the things you accuse me of. Like far too many on the left, you appear to confuse your hatred and anger towards an intellectual idea that contrasts your own with the persons present them. There is so much bologna flying around the internet about this Trevon case in particular that I have refused to take any stance whatsoever. I am not the guy tweeting the address of retirees to lynch mobs. I am not the guy putting out 'dead or alive' bounties. I'm not the guy making wild accusations based on 3rd hand internet stories, facebook comments, and media talking points which are based on rumors, innuendo, and theory. I'm just a guy saying, "chillax".
What I find loathsome is the tone of the discussion. It reminds me very much of the Duke Lacrosse case where the media latched on to a sensational story and ran with it, kicked out a narrative they liked, and pretended it was true. The whole nation tried, convicted, and demanded the execution of the Lacrosse team. The "evidence" was equally conclusive. How could a bunch of rich white boys NOT be guilty? Aaaaand then when the actual investigation happened the whole thing fell apart. I'm not saying that's the case here. I'm saying it is too early to say anything at all, and that there's a ton of agenda-based, race-inspired hype rush to jugement that is causing a lot of people on the indeological left to forget the first rule in US jurisprudence...
Innocent until proven guilty.
But you've all tried Zimmerman, convicted him, and are demanding his head on a platter based on jack-squat except a bunch of what can only be described as OPINION PIECES. The media doesn't know anything, and there are a ton of race-baiters down there in Florida that are very desperately churning up everything they can in order to advance the agenda that this was a hate crime. Frankly, I'm not buying it. I'll wait for the actual investigation. All this stuff flying around right now is obviously designed to establish a narrative before the trial - and I'm not listening to a word of it.
Why? Adam Corrola of all people nails it in his podcast...
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/03/29/Adam-Carolla-Media%
20Bias
The entire story about that "poor persecuted gay student driven to suicide by his bigoted roommate"? Yeah - it was all bullcrap. So was the Duke Lacrosse case. Again - I'm not saying that's the case here. I'm saying let's wait for some REAL data as opposed to all this clearly agenda-driven bullcrap that is designed to establish a narrative. You all think you're smart, right? Prove it for a change and stop being parrots. There's a ton of people down there throwing gas bombs so you'll react the way they want. Stop being thier tools. Shut off the news. Ignore everyone who is shouting for your attention - because they're probably a charlatan or demagogue. Just go about your business and wait for the courts to take care of this.


And yet when it comes to Obama he's guilty until proven innocent.

Your ignoring the biggest accusation leveled against you. When a black man is shot and killed by a white guy, you are here insisting the white guy is innocent until proven guilty, which is fine and nobody is even really arguing against it. The trouble is at the exact same time you go around insisting that a black man who has been accepted as president forged his birth records and was in fact born in Kenya, guilty until proven innocent, and not even a certified birth certificate accepted by the highest authority in the state is in your mind enough evidence to prove his innocence.

That contradiction of positions that paints you in a horrific light and you might want to address it rather than ignoring it.

I think this is part of the issue. The left's position isn't "off with Zimmerman's head!" it's "we demand a real criminal investigation!"

The people we're most mad at are the Florida police for looking the other way. I don't know if Zimmerman is guilty of a crime or not, but I'm pretty fucking sure that him shooting and killing an unarmed kid warranted more action from the police than what happened.

I don't understand why that isn't everyone's reaction. Why is the right fighting that...at all? Why has this turned into another partisan political spat?

Do you guys think killing people isn't a big deal?

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:

But you've all tried Zimmerman, convicted him, and are demanding his head on a platter based on jack-squat except a bunch of what can only be described as OPINION PIECES.

I understand what you're saying about people seeing what they want and manipulating a tragedy to their own ends. But I have no problem with the "court of public opinion" (as influenced on the Sift by TYT) supporting the family and deciding that the initial investigation was flawed, and that Zimmerman needs to be arrested and brought to trial. Now that's happening anyway, but people are going to follow it and discuss it like they would any popular murder case.

I believe Zimmerman is a pathetic Charles Bronson wannabe, but I'm not ready to convict him. One of my friends made a very convincing case just last night that he'll get off in the end. Either way, the outcome is going to be very politically relevant to every American, no matter how they feel about it.
>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:

But you've all tried Zimmerman, convicted him, and are demanding his head on a platter based on jack-squat except a bunch of what can only be described as OPINION PIECES.

coming from one of the most politically biased individuals to ever puke up worthless polarized talking points on the sift

I understand your fear and anger. When leftists encounter a conservative that puts forth simple, logical arguements that conflict with liberal ideology, your response is the default. Lash out. Attack. Insult. That's all the left has really got. We see it in the blogosphere right now with the Obamacare SCOTUS case. Liberals are literally gobsmacked at how Barry-boy's law has been so utterly and easily turned into swiss cheese - even though the arguments have been there for decades. Not having any intelligent, logical response to the simple, common-sense arguments, what do they do? Visit the leftist blog of your choice to see netizens stomping and bellowing like elephants - much like yourself. You suffer from the same malady, but on a smaller scale when you encounter me here on the Sift. I understand, and you have my pity.

But of course the truth is that I've never done any of the things you accuse me of. Like far too many on the left, you appear to confuse your hatred and anger towards an intellectual idea that contrasts your own with the persons present them. There is so much bologna flying around the internet about this Trevon case in particular that I have refused to take any stance whatsoever. I am not the guy tweeting the address of retirees to lynch mobs. I am not the guy putting out 'dead or alive' bounties. I'm not the guy making wild accusations based on 3rd hand internet stories, facebook comments, and media talking points which are based on rumors, innuendo, and theory. I'm just a guy saying, "chillax".

What I find loathsome is the tone of the discussion. It reminds me very much of the Duke Lacrosse case where the media latched on to a sensational story and ran with it, kicked out a narrative they liked, and pretended it was true. The whole nation tried, convicted, and demanded the execution of the Lacrosse team. The "evidence" was equally conclusive. How could a bunch of rich white boys NOT be guilty? Aaaaand then when the actual investigation happened the whole thing fell apart. I'm not saying that's the case here. I'm saying it is too early to say anything at all, and that there's a ton of agenda-based, race-inspired hype rush to jugement that is causing a lot of people on the indeological left to forget the first rule in US jurisprudence...

Innocent until proven guilty.

But you've all tried Zimmerman, convicted him, and are demanding his head on a platter based on jack-squat except a bunch of what can only be described as OPINION PIECES. The media doesn't know anything, and there are a ton of race-baiters down there in Florida that are very desperately churning up everything they can in order to advance the agenda that this was a hate crime. Frankly, I'm not buying it. I'll wait for the actual investigation. All this stuff flying around right now is obviously designed to establish a narrative before the trial - and I'm not listening to a word of it.

Why? Adam Corrola of all people nails it in his podcast...

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/03/29/Adam-Carolla-Media%20Bias

The entire story about that "poor persecuted gay student driven to suicide by his bigoted roommate"? Yeah - it was all bullcrap. So was the Duke Lacrosse case. Again - I'm not saying that's the case here. I'm saying let's wait for some REAL data as opposed to all this clearly agenda-driven bullcrap that is designed to establish a narrative. You all think you're smart, right? Prove it for a change and stop being parrots. There's a ton of people down there throwing gas bombs so you'll react the way they want. Stop being thier tools. Shut off the news. Ignore everyone who is shouting for your attention - because they're probably a charlatan or demagogue. Just go about your business and wait for the courts to take care of this.

For all the raving and quibbling over this guys actions, our world would be a much better place if the average parent was more like him.
1. He actually cares about how his child is behaving, that's already better than almost 50% of my kids classmates have.

2. He is actually trying to discipline his child. It seems most parents these days think a stern 5 minute talking to is punishment enough for anything.

3. He actually is trying to teach the value of hard work and make sure his kids don't grow up expecting everything and anything be given them on a platter. If you look at the self entitled attitude that is omnipresent in society, I'd again love to see this guy's approach adopted in place of the status quo.

>> ^shinyblurry:

You have a lot more problems than you know about.

Watch your step here, mate. You are drifting dangerously close to being even more of a sanctimonious turd than you already are. Again, any problems that I do have, will not be solved with the addition of more religion. Less religion? Might help things on a global scale, but on a personal level, I have removed it's (negative) influence from my life.

>> ^shinyblurry:

but you said it yourself, youre satisified with a worldly life. You're not interested in God, you don't fear Him, and you don't want to live a holy and sanctified life.

I much more interested in living a good life. I wish to lead an ethical life, be happy and be a good friend and husband.

Also I support that which is good and oppose that which is evil. Kinda like Jesus, or more awesomely, Batman.

>> ^shinyblurry:

Instead of changing or reaching out to God, you want Jesus on a silver platter, to pursue at your leisure. So, it isn't really a mystery why you haven't heard anything from Him is it?

If I had a friend who had a serious problem, but wouldn't acknowledge it, I wouldn't wait for them to come to me. I'd try to help. I think most people would. So that leaves the following possibilities in order of probability (starting at the most likely)

1. Jesus (the man) is dead, if he ever really existed in the first place. Jesus (the "son of god") is a fairy tale.

2. Jesus/God/Allah/Buddah is perfectly happy with the way I'm living my life, and chooses to let me get on with it.

3. Jesus knows I'm screwing my life up(!?), but is such a collossal dick that he can't even be bothered to intervene. And again, don't give me that bullshit of "he has intervened, through the church. blah blah blah". Back to my hypothetical friend with a problem. Let's say he's a heroin addict for the sake of argument. Would I be morally ok with just sending an email to the local addiction centre suggesting they look into this?

You have a lot more problems than you know about, but you said it yourself, youre satisified with a worldly life. You're not interested in God, you don't fear Him, and you don't want to live a holy and sanctified life. Instead of changing or reaching out to God, you want Jesus on a silver platter, to pursue at your leisure. So, it isn't really a mystery why you haven't heard anything from Him is it?

>> ^ChaosEngine:
>> ^shinyblurry:
Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.
If He showed up, would you give your life over to Him? I don't know if God is answering half-hearted prayers..
You might also try to find out more about it.. http://www.needhim.org/ ..there is a good penn jillette video there
>> ^xxovercastxx:
>> ^shinyblurry:
You can test the claims of Christianity by placing your faith in Jesus Christ, and asking Him to come into your life as Lord and Savior.
And when he doesn't show, then what do we do?


So, in order to be convinced, the first thing you need to do is believe?
Not good enough. My life is perfectly fine without jesus, or any other mythical figures . My life may not be perfect, but none of the problems I have would be improved with the addition of a set of nonsensical rules and mindless sycophancy. So if jesus loves me, and wants me to believe in him, he's gonna have to meet me halfway here. I will admit he's my lord and saviour, yadda yadda yadda the second he gives me one shred of evidence he exists. And no bullshit voices, either. I want hard empirical evidence. C'mon, he's "the son of god". Surely that can't be beyond him?
aside from Batman. Batman is waaaay more awesome than jesus.

I went looking and found this. It seems like this video is indeed *timeshift. That is how I read it.

"What possessed Paychex (or whatever company before them) to put a monstrous, rotating metal head in front of the building, I will never know, but it is cool. Even better is the fact that the head is made up of bunches of little platters. Unfortunately, what looks like perhaps fifty tiny platters do not spin - only the larger "bundles" of platters (four or five of them).

This means that the forehead and the nose can be pointing in different directions at times. It seems to happen - roughly - every fifteen minutes or so, and the head points generally in compass points in relation to the building behind it, but it does not necessarily go around those points, stopping at each in order (like dealing a deck of cards).

Instead, it seems to follow you. We had an impromptu picnic, and the head pointed away from the building. But when we were sitting on the steps, it turned to look at us, in a disjointed way. Then we went to the side and it reconfigured (to its normal state) and looked in that direction. Then we went back to the steps and it turned that way. Eventually we got used to it, until we went to leave and the head turned and in its cross-plattered way, it turned to look at us, as if to ask us not to go. That was a bit creepy."