oh I don't know... Yeah, his initial reaction is typical teenager, but just because the words weren't his doesn't mean it won't make him think. He had a 1.5 hour flight to get ribbed by his teammates and coaches and think about the whole thing. He's probably a marginally better person for it in the long run.

>> ^bareboards2:

Something tells me this kid learned doodly squat. Not his words, not his remorse.

Something tells me this kid learned doodly squat. Not his words, not his remorse.

Wow, I have just lost respect for Bill Moyers. He has stooped to flat out lying and playing a fear mongering video that is full of BS. Right at 1 minute he says "one of the guns used was an AK-47 type assault weapon that was banned in 1994." This is a flat out lie. The so called "assault weapon ban" did not actually ban any weapons, it only banned cosmetic features on semi automatic replicas, or more accurately it limited a gun to having no more than two military style features found on the real assault weapon. His "AK-47 type assault weapon" would have still been legal, it just might have looked less scary.

The 1994 Assault Weapon Ban was political stunt that banned something that people feared, but didn't do squat to prevent crime. The DOJ conducted a study on the effect of the 1994 Assault Weapon ban and found that its effects on gun violence was "too small for reliable measurement, because assault weapons are rarely used in gun crimes." The Brady Center did a study of the ban and their findings were that "assault weapons" were only used in 1.6% of gun crimes.

I can't believe he played that clip of a scary muslim instructing on how easy it is to go to a gun show and walk out with a fully automatic weapon without a background check or showing any ID, without checking the facts claimed. That is total fear mongering BS. First of all you can't buy a gun at all, even at a gun show without a background check. Second, to legally own a fully automatic weapon requires a class 3 firearms license, which isn't easy to get or cheap, and you must register your weapons with the ATF. Way to go on fact checking that video Bill.

How come you never hear about the crimes that are prevented by people lawfully carrying a gun? A NIJ and another independent study from 1993 and 1994 found that 800,000 to 2.5 million crimes per year are prevented each year most of which the victim never had to fire a shot.

"You don't...squat!"

You're suposed to have benches/seats all over a gym, especially near the squat rack.

/gym design fail

The account of events as discussed suggests that at the time of the altercation, Zimmerman was no longer 'in pursuit' but was heading back to his vehicle. If that is the case, then SYG applies. That's the line that Zimmerman's camp is going to follow anyway. It's a solid defense that could very well - as some have said - let him "walk" with only an investigation and no trial at all.

This is why you have the other camp desperately pumping agenda-driven narratives into the mix. They know if they can gin up enough outrage they'll get a trial when otherwise it would have just been thrown out or languish in proceedural limbo. And then there's the human flotsam like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and the rest of the professional bigots of the race-shakedown industry. They don't care jack-squat about Zimmerman, Martin or anything else. This is just thier bread & butter - getting people angry so they can make money... The slimeballs are literal carrion fowl.

If you had a little more empathy, you would see why people are so upset and angry. Anyone with a darker skinned kid is upset and concerned that murder can be so easy to commit and get away with.

And you're completely wrong when you say noone is looking at Zimmerman's side. For god's sake the guy killed a kid and he's walking free. The police and state attorneys were on his side from the start. They already said: "We can find no reason to arrest or charge Zimmerman".That's the problem. If they had arrested Zimmerman from the start none of the protest would have happened.>> ^Darkhand:

>> ^NetRunner:
I think this is part of the issue. The left's position isn't "off with Zimmerman's head!" it's "we demand a real criminal investigation!"
The people we're most mad at are the Florida police for looking the other way. I don't know if Zimmerman is guilty of a crime or not, but I'm pretty fucking sure that him shooting and killing an unarmed kid warranted more action from the police than what happened.
I don't understand why that isn't everyone's reaction. Why is the right fighting that...at all? Why has this turned into another partisan political spat?
Do you guys think killing people isn't a big deal?
>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
But you've all tried Zimmerman, convicted him, and are demanding his head on a platter based on jack-squat except a bunch of what can only be described as OPINION PIECES.

I'm not a birther but I feel the same way Winstonfield does too. Until the police say "We can find no reason to arrest or charge Zimmerman" everyone needs to be patient. Have Rallys and Prayer Vigils for the family but being so angry about it doesn't solve anything.
Killing people is a big deal and if Zimmerman wasn't defending himself then he needs to be tried and convicted as a criminal.
Let the prosecutor do her job and if she doesn't THEN hold her accountable. I feel like we've hit the "fast forwarded button" skip a year and George Zimmerman was released and the mayor presented him with a key to the and gave a speech about how Zimmerman is a great citizen for "stopping a dangerous negro".
People act like I'm defending Zimmerman when it will always seem that way because nobody else is looking at the other side of the case. Until this video came out we had no reason to NOT believe Zimmerman over what was in our individual hearts.
Now Zimmerman needs to pray that the hospital took photos of him or something looking really beat up or can explain away why in that video he looks perfectly fine.

Curious; can you outline your friend's argument?>> ^Ryjkyj:

I understand what you're saying about people seeing what they want and manipulating a tragedy to their own ends. But I have no problem with the "court of public opinion" (as influenced on the Sift by TYT) supporting the family and deciding that the initial investigation was flawed, and that Zimmerman needs to be arrested and brought to trial. Now that's happening anyway, but people are going to follow it and discuss it like they would any popular murder case.
I believe Zimmerman is a pathetic Charles Bronson wannabe, but I'm not ready to convict him. One of my friends made a very convincing case just last night that he'll get off in the end. Either way, the outcome is going to be very politically relevant to every American, no matter how they feel about it.
>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
But you've all tried Zimmerman, convicted him, and are demanding his head on a platter based on jack-squat except a bunch of what can only be described as OPINION PIECES.

>> ^NetRunner:

I think this is part of the issue. The left's position isn't "off with Zimmerman's head!" it's "we demand a real criminal investigation!"
The people we're most mad at are the Florida police for looking the other way. I don't know if Zimmerman is guilty of a crime or not, but I'm pretty fucking sure that him shooting and killing an unarmed kid warranted more action from the police than what happened.
I don't understand why that isn't everyone's reaction. Why is the right fighting that...at all? Why has this turned into another partisan political spat?
Do you guys think killing people isn't a big deal?
>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
But you've all tried Zimmerman, convicted him, and are demanding his head on a platter based on jack-squat except a bunch of what can only be described as OPINION PIECES.


I'm not a birther but I feel the same way Winstonfield does too. Until the police say "We can find no reason to arrest or charge Zimmerman" everyone needs to be patient. Have Rallys and Prayer Vigils for the family but being so angry about it doesn't solve anything.

Killing people is a big deal and if Zimmerman wasn't defending himself then he needs to be tried and convicted as a criminal.

Let the prosecutor do her job and if she doesn't THEN hold her accountable. I feel like we've hit the "fast forwarded button" skip a year and George Zimmerman was released and the mayor presented him with a key to the and gave a speech about how Zimmerman is a great citizen for "stopping a dangerous negro".

People act like I'm defending Zimmerman when it will always seem that way because nobody else is looking at the other side of the case. Until this video came out we had no reason to NOT believe Zimmerman over what was in our individual hearts.

Now Zimmerman needs to pray that the hospital took photos of him or something looking really beat up or can explain away why in that video he looks perfectly fine.

Wait, I am confused... Obama is black, and usually presumed guilty before innocent as a black man first. We agree on that 100% I assume...but the proper way to word your argument would have been, "when a black man is shot and killed by a Hispanic, you are here insisting the Hispanic guy is innocent until proven guilty."

If we say Zimmerman is for the most part white, then Obama is white too, and that's just retarded... We know society goes by racial clumping and that shit is not going to change any time soon. In fact, this is the first time I have ever heard "White Hispanic" in my life--when the Media wants to stir up shit for dollar's sake.

If it had been Zimmerman shot by a KKK member, who thinks the fucking paper would label it a white-on-white crime? Who on the sift would label it as such?

>> ^bcglorf:

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
coming from one of the most politically biased individuals to ever puke up worthless polarized talking points on the sift
I understand your fear and anger. When leftists encounter a conservative that puts forth simple, logical arguements that conflict with liberal ideology, your response is the default. Lash out. Attack. Insult. That's all the left has really got. We see it in the blogosphere right now with the Obamacare SCOTUS case. Liberals are literally gobsmacked at how Barry-boy's law has been so utterly and easily turned into swiss cheese - even though the arguments have been there for decades. Not having any intelligent, logical response to the simple, common-sense arguments, what do they do? Visit the leftist blog of your choice to see netizens stomping and bellowing like elephants - much like yourself. You suffer from the same malady, but on a smaller scale when you encounter me here on the Sift. I understand, and you have my pity.
But of course the truth is that I've never done any of the things you accuse me of. Like far too many on the left, you appear to confuse your hatred and anger towards an intellectual idea that contrasts your own with the persons present them. There is so much bologna flying around the internet about this Trevon case in particular that I have refused to take any stance whatsoever. I am not the guy tweeting the address of retirees to lynch mobs. I am not the guy putting out 'dead or alive' bounties. I'm not the guy making wild accusations based on 3rd hand internet stories, facebook comments, and media talking points which are based on rumors, innuendo, and theory. I'm just a guy saying, "chillax".
What I find loathsome is the tone of the discussion. It reminds me very much of the Duke Lacrosse case where the media latched on to a sensational story and ran with it, kicked out a narrative they liked, and pretended it was true. The whole nation tried, convicted, and demanded the execution of the Lacrosse team. The "evidence" was equally conclusive. How could a bunch of rich white boys NOT be guilty? Aaaaand then when the actual investigation happened the whole thing fell apart. I'm not saying that's the case here. I'm saying it is too early to say anything at all, and that there's a ton of agenda-based, race-inspired hype rush to jugement that is causing a lot of people on the indeological left to forget the first rule in US jurisprudence...
Innocent until proven guilty.
But you've all tried Zimmerman, convicted him, and are demanding his head on a platter based on jack-squat except a bunch of what can only be described as OPINION PIECES. The media doesn't know anything, and there are a ton of race-baiters down there in Florida that are very desperately churning up everything they can in order to advance the agenda that this was a hate crime. Frankly, I'm not buying it. I'll wait for the actual investigation. All this stuff flying around right now is obviously designed to establish a narrative before the trial - and I'm not listening to a word of it.
Why? Adam Corrola of all people nails it in his podcast...
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/03/29/Adam-Carolla-Media% 20Bias
The entire story about that "poor persecuted gay student driven to suicide by his bigoted roommate"? Yeah - it was all bullcrap. So was the Duke Lacrosse case. Again - I'm not saying that's the case here. I'm saying let's wait for some REAL data as opposed to all this clearly agenda-driven bullcrap that is designed to establish a narrative. You all think you're smart, right? Prove it for a change and stop being parrots. There's a ton of people down there throwing gas bombs so you'll react the way they want. Stop being thier tools. Shut off the news. Ignore everyone who is shouting for your attention - because they're probably a charlatan or demagogue. Just go about your business and wait for the courts to take care of this.

And yet when it comes to Obama he's guilty until proven innocent.
Your ignoring the biggest accusation leveled against you. When a black man is shot and killed by a white guy, you are here insisting the white guy is innocent until proven guilty, which is fine and nobody is even really arguing against it. The trouble is at the exact same time you go around insisting that a black man who has been accepted as president forged his birth records and was in fact born in Kenya, guilty until proven innocent, and not even a certified birth certificate accepted by the highest authority in the state is in your mind enough evidence to prove his innocence.
That contradiction of positions that paints you in a horrific light and you might want to address it rather than ignoring it.

Casey Annothny, a white woman, murdered her child or was directly negligent in her child's death. There was no looking the other way because she was white. Yet the prosecution fucked up the case. I wouldn't care how long it would take--get everything right under the law firs then arrest.

I say this because stand your ground is hard to fight against period. (Its not like other states where people should move to if they fear this shit.)

And if you want to know--the police wanted to make an arrest right away. They filed the paper work. It was the State's attorney that advised against it... (Why, I don't know?)


>> ^NetRunner:

I think this is part of the issue. The left's position isn't "off with Zimmerman's head!" it's "we demand a real criminal investigation!"
The people we're most mad at are the Florida police for looking the other way. I don't know if Zimmerman is guilty of a crime or not, but I'm pretty fucking sure that him shooting and killing an unarmed kid warranted more action from the police than what happened.
I don't understand why that isn't everyone's reaction. Why is the right fighting that...at all? Why has this turned into another partisan political spat?
Do you guys think killing people isn't a big deal?
>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
But you've all tried Zimmerman, convicted him, and are demanding his head on a platter based on jack-squat except a bunch of what can only be described as OPINION PIECES.

It is definitely racism here underscored by thoughts that people have the right to "protect" themselves, even if that protection is provoking another and responding with force--even if that protection is an overreaction(I punch you, you shoot me.)

Now, the question is does it matter if he is bleeding or not by law? The defense doesn't have to prove any injuries on Zimmerman in the first place, but the police report would probably be tossed from court if they can't explain this video (Like for example, they may have cleaned up Zimmerman before booking him.)

All this seems to me is minority on minority violence. Funny thing is, since I live close by, I hear about this shit all the times. Hispanics hate blacks and vice versa, the acrimony is insane. One said to not trust the spics but to deal with the white man because he is more the honest businessman...?

>> ^NetRunner:

I think this is part of the issue. The left's position isn't "off with Zimmerman's head!" it's "we demand a real criminal investigation!"
The people we're most mad at are the Florida police for looking the other way. I don't know if Zimmerman is guilty of a crime or not, but I'm pretty fucking sure that him shooting and killing an unarmed kid warranted more action from the police than what happened.
I don't understand why that isn't everyone's reaction. Why is the right fighting that...at all? Why has this turned into another partisan political spat?
Do you guys think killing people isn't a big deal?
>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
But you've all tried Zimmerman, convicted him, and are demanding his head on a platter based on jack-squat except a bunch of what can only be described as OPINION PIECES.

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:

coming from one of the most politically biased individuals to ever puke up worthless polarized talking points on the sift
I understand your fear and anger. When leftists encounter a conservative that puts forth simple, logical arguements that conflict with liberal ideology, your response is the default. Lash out. Attack. Insult. That's all the left has really got. We see it in the blogosphere right now with the Obamacare SCOTUS case. Liberals are literally gobsmacked at how Barry-boy's law has been so utterly and easily turned into swiss cheese - even though the arguments have been there for decades. Not having any intelligent, logical response to the simple, common-sense arguments, what do they do? Visit the leftist blog of your choice to see netizens stomping and bellowing like elephants - much like yourself. You suffer from the same malady, but on a smaller scale when you encounter me here on the Sift. I understand, and you have my pity.
But of course the truth is that I've never done any of the things you accuse me of. Like far too many on the left, you appear to confuse your hatred and anger towards an intellectual idea that contrasts your own with the persons present them. There is so much bologna flying around the internet about this Trevon case in particular that I have refused to take any stance whatsoever. I am not the guy tweeting the address of retirees to lynch mobs. I am not the guy putting out 'dead or alive' bounties. I'm not the guy making wild accusations based on 3rd hand internet stories, facebook comments, and media talking points which are based on rumors, innuendo, and theory. I'm just a guy saying, "chillax".
What I find loathsome is the tone of the discussion. It reminds me very much of the Duke Lacrosse case where the media latched on to a sensational story and ran with it, kicked out a narrative they liked, and pretended it was true. The whole nation tried, convicted, and demanded the execution of the Lacrosse team. The "evidence" was equally conclusive. How could a bunch of rich white boys NOT be guilty? Aaaaand then when the actual investigation happened the whole thing fell apart. I'm not saying that's the case here. I'm saying it is too early to say anything at all, and that there's a ton of agenda-based, race-inspired hype rush to jugement that is causing a lot of people on the indeological left to forget the first rule in US jurisprudence...
Innocent until proven guilty.
But you've all tried Zimmerman, convicted him, and are demanding his head on a platter based on jack-squat except a bunch of what can only be described as OPINION PIECES. The media doesn't know anything, and there are a ton of race-baiters down there in Florida that are very desperately churning up everything they can in order to advance the agenda that this was a hate crime. Frankly, I'm not buying it. I'll wait for the actual investigation. All this stuff flying around right now is obviously designed to establish a narrative before the trial - and I'm not listening to a word of it.
Why? Adam Corrola of all people nails it in his podcast...
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/03/29/Adam-Carolla-Media%
20Bias
The entire story about that "poor persecuted gay student driven to suicide by his bigoted roommate"? Yeah - it was all bullcrap. So was the Duke Lacrosse case. Again - I'm not saying that's the case here. I'm saying let's wait for some REAL data as opposed to all this clearly agenda-driven bullcrap that is designed to establish a narrative. You all think you're smart, right? Prove it for a change and stop being parrots. There's a ton of people down there throwing gas bombs so you'll react the way they want. Stop being thier tools. Shut off the news. Ignore everyone who is shouting for your attention - because they're probably a charlatan or demagogue. Just go about your business and wait for the courts to take care of this.


And yet when it comes to Obama he's guilty until proven innocent.

Your ignoring the biggest accusation leveled against you. When a black man is shot and killed by a white guy, you are here insisting the white guy is innocent until proven guilty, which is fine and nobody is even really arguing against it. The trouble is at the exact same time you go around insisting that a black man who has been accepted as president forged his birth records and was in fact born in Kenya, guilty until proven innocent, and not even a certified birth certificate accepted by the highest authority in the state is in your mind enough evidence to prove his innocence.

That contradiction of positions that paints you in a horrific light and you might want to address it rather than ignoring it.

I think this is part of the issue. The left's position isn't "off with Zimmerman's head!" it's "we demand a real criminal investigation!"

The people we're most mad at are the Florida police for looking the other way. I don't know if Zimmerman is guilty of a crime or not, but I'm pretty fucking sure that him shooting and killing an unarmed kid warranted more action from the police than what happened.

I don't understand why that isn't everyone's reaction. Why is the right fighting that...at all? Why has this turned into another partisan political spat?

Do you guys think killing people isn't a big deal?

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:

But you've all tried Zimmerman, convicted him, and are demanding his head on a platter based on jack-squat except a bunch of what can only be described as OPINION PIECES.

I understand what you're saying about people seeing what they want and manipulating a tragedy to their own ends. But I have no problem with the "court of public opinion" (as influenced on the Sift by TYT) supporting the family and deciding that the initial investigation was flawed, and that Zimmerman needs to be arrested and brought to trial. Now that's happening anyway, but people are going to follow it and discuss it like they would any popular murder case.

I believe Zimmerman is a pathetic Charles Bronson wannabe, but I'm not ready to convict him. One of my friends made a very convincing case just last night that he'll get off in the end. Either way, the outcome is going to be very politically relevant to every American, no matter how they feel about it.
>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:

But you've all tried Zimmerman, convicted him, and are demanding his head on a platter based on jack-squat except a bunch of what can only be described as OPINION PIECES.