I had something similar happen, except the piece of metal came through the windshield and impaled itself in the center console. If I didn't swerve left when I saw it coming...

If that’s your position I wont bother reading past sentence one.

It’s exactly the same as your other mistake, claiming a billion in goods delayed in transport is the same as a billion dollar loss.

Money not spent is not the same as money lost. It’s actual money lost vs potential expenditure delayed. It’s permanent actual jobs lost vs potential temporary construction delayed (the project as planned is cancelled, not the plan to build a pipeline SOMEWHERE, and spend a billion on it, just not through reservations and sensitive watersheds on the cheap.)

The auto manufacturers will never recoup the lost production, the oil company will build a pipeline. There are costs to delays/redesign, absolutely, but they aren’t 100% of the projected project costs or anywhere close.

Have a nice day. I’ve grown tired of the merry go round. I’m pretty sure we understand each other’s positions, and don’t see progress beyond that. You insist on not seeing similarities and differences I think are incontrovertible….like the idea that a blockade of a major city, closing it down for weeks +, is far more unacceptable and inconveniences exponentially more people and business than a blockade of a railroad out in the country, or of a pipeline on tribal land by the tribe.

@newtboy,

A company cancelling a multi-billion dollar project means multi-billion dollars not spent on the work of the project, that many jobs out of the economy. Exactly the same as a car manufacturer shutting down for a week, by your logic nothing was lost, the company just stopped spending money for a couple days...

I only support the groups right to protest, and not to illegally block roads or borders. I stand by my wish is for their prompt arrest when illegal blocking roads, borders or places of business.

That said, I believe it also wrong of me to fail to point out that our federal government has continually refused to act as I would wish in promptly shutting down illegal blockades. This is the very first instance were they've shown any interest in a prompt police enforced end, and they've in fact jump much further to invoking a declaration of national emergency so they can also target protesters bank accounts directly and without court orders.

An analogy would be someone that supports arresting people for possession of marijuana. The government then proceeds to only selectively enforce that law, say only acting to make arrests when people are a particular creed or color. It's perfectly consistent to believe the government arrests are wrong and unfair, and to NOT support them, while at the same time still believing the idea of the rule applied fairly being a good idea.

One side is about what I think the line for protest should be:
-I believe the right to protest should be independent of creed or belief, and should only be restricted when actions taken are illegal.(Ideally illegal being defined as impeding on freedoms of others)

By that, the convoy blockade of border or streets should have led to immediate arrests.

In the eye of fairness though, the last two years have already seen at a minimum 3 major protests, that included illegal blockades of work sites and railways and those were ALL allowed to run for weeks and in 2 cases months. The government of the day even tripped over themselves to message their support for the overall causes of the protestors.

In that light, it's wrong to simply ignore the fact that the first protest that is likely to vote conservative is the ONLY one where the government immediately condemns everything about them and feels compelled to intervene urgently.

Churches were literally burning last summer, and our PM's public statements spent most of their time sympathizing with the anger before pleading that burning churches isn't helpful. Where'd all that compassion for folks that you disagree with go when it meant a small number of downtown Ottawa business shutdown and horns honking go. Now our PM invokes terrorizing of the populace.

Trudeau's actions have been distressingly similar to Trump's as the division in our country grows, he's using his words to reach out to the extreme end of his side of the aisle, while tossing gasoline and vitriol onto his opposition. It's making things worse in the worst possible way when we need leaders uniting instead of stoking further division.

@newtboy,

??? How exactly do you figure cancellation of a billion dollar project is no where near the economic cost of blocking a border crossing for awhile at similar cost???

I'll tell you what the difference in Canada is, the dollars lost from the pipeline were being lost in Alberta, the dollars lost from the convoy were in Ontario. In Canada we've got a pretty sad history of if it happens to western provinces, it doesn't matter. Much like the urban/rural divide in the US. The response is pretty similar as well, the urban side just laughs at the loss of the stupid backwards country folk. When the same thing hits them though it's a national emergency.

I've tried pointing out costs and your just rejecting them out of hand , while whole hog accepting the highest estimates for the convoy cost as gospel truth. Like the literally a company walking from a multi-billion dollar project and you insist that's nothing and the days the border was blockaded clearly must have cost more...


For years now I've insisted that illegal blockades of worksites, job sites or trade routes should be met with prompt arrests and re-opening of the route/site.

Until January of this year, the entirety of the Liberal minded half of my country(Ottawa centric) called that authoritarian, repressive and were against the notion. Now I find myself in a weird spot, as suddenly that same crowd DOES want that action and more to be taken promptly. And the conservative crowd that agreed with me before is now kinda walking things back.

I read it, nowhere did it give an estimate of what those protests cost, and it indicated there were multiple other routes for the oil to travel so didn’t even disrupt oil transportation completely, much less ALL commerce.
And it was about pipelines crossing their (or protected) land it seems, a far cry from the truckers. Yes, the validity and severity of your cause matters, just like the damage you do and to whom.

Billions worth of goods stuck temporarily…but no actual estimated cost for their delay, this cost billions in lost production and salaries that won’t be recovered.

That protest was targeted against the offending entity, not the populace. I have no issue with natives blockading their own land and preserves that feed those reservations against permanent destruction for some private profits. That’s a far cry from the truckers blockading the main border crossing for industry and tourism because they’re afraid to get a poke.

The numbers I saw were special. Hundreds of millions-billions lost (your billions in goods delayed doesn’t have a price tag). That was before the bridge was reopened. These protesters weren’t satisfied with that damage and continued to close your capitol with ever shifting demands. Since regular measures had failed, I support emergency measures, seizure, even forfeiture after trial, of any funds or tools used.

Perhaps they became only as localized (but certainly not as targeted, and localized in a city not the unpopulated country), but they had already done exponentially more damage and showed no sign of end or even demands.

Let’s ignore someone personally supporting a grass roots movement outside their country and control, please. I find it a red herring totally unconnected to how he governs.

Yes, some Floyd protests were more violent than the truckers, some weren’t, remember how they were all violently smashed, tear gassed, rubber bullets galore, run through with police trucks, unmarked vans pulling up and grabbing people crossing the streets, unmarked vans driving through towns full of police shooting tear gas at any moving body, etc? Don’t pretend the response is similar.
Also, the Floyd protests lasted a weekend in most cases (occupy Portland really wasn’t about Floyd) and went elsewhere the next march. They weren’t closing down one area for weeks intent on staying. Most lasted hours and were peaceful until police became violent, despite right wing media’s fear-mongering.

I think you’re stretching, putting on blinders, and doing insane mental gymnastics to pretend you believe that. From the actual damage caused, the idiotic reasoning behind it (quickly abandoned), the extremely uncanadianness of the self centered far right rally masquerading as protest, the international damage, the foreign involvement from planning to funding, these are unique “protests” in numerous ways.

Their idiotic beliefs are only one of many distinctions I’ve pointed out, and as I mentioned only color public opinion and the amount of patience they’re given by the public, not how the government treats them. It’s not at all honest for you to pretend that’s the entirety of my position…it’s very Bob of you, and has lost some of my respect.

Pipelines crossing sovereign territory or preserves = bad so blockading those areas to force pipeline movement = good….oil companies didn’t truck the oil out, they increased shipments from other areas by rail. Read the article you linked.

Native cultures and governments are different. Pretending an elected board for a reservation works for the people is naive in the extreme. Read about politics on reservations, who funds the people that get elected in most cases, what happens to opposing candidates…saying the board signed off while so many showed up to fight against it seems a bit at odds, no? Like maybe the board members were bribed, had ties with the oil industry, or other conflicts….just maybe?

And again, those protests didn’t cost a fraction what the truckers did from my research. Delaying delivery of a billion in goods isn’t the same as costing a billion in losses. Neither is delaying or cancelling a billion dollar project. Be adult please….don’t make such specious arguments ….please. They don’t slip by, and they make me think you are being disingenuous.

Economic disruption of the blockades was similar to the Mohawk blockade of railways about 2 years ago:
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-ottawa-rejects-police-intervention-to-put-an-end-to-blockades/

Similarly, mass lay offs and multi-billions of dollars of goods stuck sitting around waiting to get to the industries needing them.

Since at least 2012 the attempted expansion of an existing pipeline(Trans Mountain) was targeted continuously by blockades. Opposition and resulting delays leading to cost overruns so large that company ultimately halted the multi-billion dollar project.

In terms of dollars being lost, the convoy protest wasn't special. More over, the blockade of the border in Ontario that was causing the real economic damage was dismantled and removed before the 'emergency measures' were enacted. Which is to state, the emergency measures were primarily intended to clear out downtown Ottawa. In downtown Ottawa though, the damages were at minimum as localized as any of the lumber or pipeline blockades mentioned.


Prime Minister Trudeau couldn't be more unequivocal when he was expressing his support for the farmer protests in India and the Floyd protests in the US. Clip if you'd like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9EaSF6Y0eE

The protests in India absolutely did immensely more harm to India's economy than the convoy here did in Canada. The protests in support of Floyd were again unequivocally more violent than the convoy in Canada.

There really is no basis by which to point to the convoy's actions and find them in any way unique or distinct from multiple other protests within Canada, or ones abroad that have been either given more latitude, or outright embraced and supported.

The distinction as even you can't resist going after, is that their beliefs they are protesting for are stupid and wrong, so no right to protest for them. That isn't how the right to protest within a democracy should be allowed to work.

I also have to point out the 'ethical' argument isn't as cut and dry as you want to make it out either.
-Pipelines bad so blockading is good ignores the fact the same oil gets pumped regardless, it just gets loaded into trucks that burn even more oil to haul it and have a fair greater risk of accidents and spills.
-Defending the rights and lands of Aboriginal peoples(like at Coastal Gas Link site violently attacked with millions in damages while the convoy was being vilified for 'incitement') is anything but obvious. The Wet'suwet'en hereditary leaders made claim to parts of the pipeline route and demanded it be shut down. However, the same Wet'suwet'en people's multiple elected Band Councils signed on with their wishes to proceed with the project. In fact, ALL elected representatives of ALL the Bands with land along the route had ALL signed onto the project and wanting it to proceed. It is in no way obvious that ignoring the will of those other bands to favour the conflicting claims of the hereditary leaders is clearly the most respectful of the people's wishes.

Wait….so you are saying you see no difference between this protest and BLM (besides the skin color of the protesters)….but you are in favor of this and vehemently against BLM?…and you don’t see the blatant racism? LMFAHS!!

Sorry, no.
Only racist tools like you refuse to see both the similarities and differences.

Threatening, fighting, closing businesses, loudly occupying residential neighborhoods (truckers for weeks, also blocking the border crossing with the most commerce for weeks to disrupt both economies,) and definitely some killing by Covid carrying truckers. Sounds similar with truckers causing more damage and disruption to the innocent.

No false flag attacks by the left, (killing, burning, bombing, shooting cops, ) all done dressed as and pretending to be truckers. Many false flag attacks by the right (killing, burning, bombing, killing cops,) all done dressed as and pretending to be BLM activists, caught and admitted to, dumb shit. Sounds pretty different without a misinformation campaign by right wing media and false flag operation by right wingers.

Sounds to me and the rest of the world like the tiny minority of unpopular truckers have done exponentially more economic damage and likely killed more through Covid….and done so because they’re cowardly self centered snowflakes afraid to get a tiny shot in order to gain a privilege, not because people who look like them are being murdered in the streets daily by a government sponsored gang with immunity and have been for the lifespan of our nation.

Only cultists like you refuse to see or admit it, it’s blatant and obvious. You act like a child covered in chocolate trying to lie that you didn’t eat the cake, Bob. You convince no one with your denials, because we see what you say before and after them. You only make yourself a liar, but that’s nothing new.

Self centered babies are gone now, lost their trucks, many lost their Canadian driver’s license maybe for life, some going to prison. Now what are they going to protest now that they can’t drive their trucks across the border ever again? Losers.

Derp. Such a racist tool…consistently and constantly.

I think maybe they're saying 'couch' grass with an Aussie accent, which would sound very similar to cooch.

That was not that quick compared to equivalent combustion engines….>11 seconds? I expected much better acceleration, but not top speed. Turns out it has neither compared to some similarly powerful combustion engines.



Keep in mind, the Bugatti is made for top speeds, not acceleration, but wins on both counts.

The Chiron will accelerate from 0–97 km/h) in under 2.5 seconds, 0–200 km/h (120 mph) in under 6.5 seconds and 0–300 km/h (190 mph) in under 13.6 seconds. The Chiron's top speed is electronically limited to 420 km/h (260 mph) for safety reasons. The anticipated full top speed of the Bugatti Chiron is believed to be around 463 km/h (288 mph

Also, this is a Chiron, not the Chiron super sport version, not the top of the line. Weight is similar.

Electric is great…it’s not better at performance yet. Don’t oversell it.

I saw similar footage yesterday that they said was an area that had been cleaned up mid December, so that’s only 1 month worth of stolen packages. I think this has been an issue there for over a year now.

Poor Bob.
Every case of voter fraud found I’ve heard of was committed by a Republican bar one, a Democrat who’s husband died but she cast his vote anyway….for Trump. That’s 399 Republican cases, one semi-Democrat….or as you say, both sides….good people on both sides. 🤦‍♂️

Yes, I’ve had enough Republican voter fraud, schemes from single fraudulent votes to ballot harvesting and changing to schemes to throw out millions of votes based on Republican lies and false claims. Voter ID doesn’t address any of the fraud that actually happens.

Remember Trump’s national commission looking at voter fraud, the voting integrity commission….from 2017!? Remember how it quietly disappeared because they couldn’t find ANY fraud? Back then Trump said he would make certain there wasn’t any fraud going forward….what happened? That seemed vitally important to you people. Did he just forget? Did he fail miserably? Or did he make up the fraud fraud because his ego can’t accept that he lost in a historic landslide?

That said, under 400 possible cases nation wide, barely any in person frauds at all, none capable of changing the outcome of any elections (well, there actually was a mayoral race I read was overturned because of one fraudulent vote scheme by one candidate, but that wasn’t in person and the system caught it) …that is absolutely not a reason to disenfranchise millions of voters (I remind you that’s exactly what Republicans called for when you lost in 2020…just throw out any votes in areas where you claimed an individual fraud, invariably areas where Democrats won). It’s not a reason to put up road blocks that disenfranchise millions by putting poll taxes and hurdles in place.

I support a voter ID, if the ID is free and obtainable by anyone regardless of their documentation….but that makes it worthless. If the ID costs money, that’s a poll tax, and illegal. If the requirements to get the ID cost money, that’s a poll tax and out. If the affluent can obtain the ID easily, but the indigent have to spend a day or more in line to get one, no. Issue free national ID to everyone, including homeless, then it’s not too much of an obstacle. I think voting should be an obligation for every citizen over 18…I’ve never skipped an election even though I rarely like who I can vote for.

I point out that a voter ID law would do almost nothing to combat any fraud, because in person fraud isn’t the issue. Falsely claiming fraud is the issue. Republicans trying to defraud the system with fraudulent electors is a problem. Republicans harvesting mail in ballots from the elderly and filling them in for Republican candidates is a problem. Voter ID doesn’t address these problems, the real election fraud issues with real consequences, instead they target the poor with clear intent to dissuade them from exercising their rights, effectively blocking millions of votes from fear one invalid vote might be cast. That is the intent, and the result…not election security, but massive vote denials of a targeted population.

How about imagining requiring a firearm ID, required to buy, own, or possess a firearm, with fees, renewal fees, and documentation requirements to obtain….oh wait, I don’t have to, someone in congress suggested it (in the 90’s I think) and the right lost it’s fucking mind over the draconian government trampling their rights…but similar requirements to vote, sure, that’s fine because the ID they already have is acceptable….fuck the rights of people who don’t have a drivers license.
In person voter fraud is not an issue, voter ID solves a problem that doesn’t exist and creates a major problem for millions….intentionally.

His ratings are crappy largely because he’s not doing enough, not because of what he’s done. He needs to replace Garland with someone willing to prosecute sedition against representatives and ex presidents. They’re in the shitter because 35% (you) automatically disapprove simply because he’s not Trump, and 35% disapprove because he’s not replacing Trump era policy enough. I’m in the latter category, as are most people I know, but we understand that without congress functioning there’s little he can do, and Republicans have the practical majority even though they’re the minority on paper. Keep killing off right wingers and maybe that will change this year, but I’m not holding my breath.

Lol. Failed economy? Sorry, Trump is the one who gave us a negative GDP, tens of millions unemployed, and an unmitigated pandemic with a cadre of morons unwilling to believe in it or take any safety measures to combat it. My portfolio lost 8-10% over 4 years under Trump, it gained over 30% in one year under Biden. If that’s failing, keep failing! GDP near -3% in 2020…+4% 2021…predicted to be 9% 2022. -3%!!! And you want to talk economy?! You fucktard.
Inflation….Trump printed 1/3 of every dollar circulating! That’s what causes inflation, you devalue the dollar when you print more. The market takes time to react….there’s going to be more coming to pay for Trump’s spending spree. Dumbass.
Covid! You’ve got to be fucking kidding me! Covid is a right wing (Trump) caused issue, made much worse by far right insanity of denial and conspiracy, and now nearly all hospitalization and death is anti vaxers, who are nearly all far right nutters that followed Trump’s “lead” and who’s heads exploded when he recently told them to get vaccinated. Look at “leftist” countries like New Zealand to compare a leftist government’s response results. (52 deaths). Moron.

Trump’s tax rates didn’t improve unemployment rates, or the economy. They didn’t trickle down. Growth went negative under those cuts, unemployment went to double digits! Debt and deficit went into orbit, rising faster than ever by miles….but that didn’t matter one whit to you when it was Republican debt and deficit, a much worse Republican economy, and insanely higher Republican unemployment rates. Idiot.

Holy fuck. Talk about ignoring reality. What color is the sky in your world? Is the ocean in the air with fish swimming overhead there?!

Ruh roe….Trump said vaccines are good.
The far right lunatic league has decided their conspiracy theories are correct, so Trump must be a libtard moron or part of the plan to force mind control drugs and microchips into them, and are quickly abandoning him! Lol…too good.
For instance, Owens has now said he’s a very very old man who only watches main stream news and no longer participates in their alternate facts/alternate reality. Not a ringing endorsement. Jones says something similar, Trump’s either ignorant or one of the most evil men.
So, thinking Republicans are fleeing the party in droves, and Q nuts are abandoning Trump in droves. Trump has abandoned McConnel, and McConnel is abandoning Trump.

This coming 2 weeks after Trump’s sad rally became such a super spreader event that his anti vax nutters decided they were attacked with anthrax, because Covid isn’t real so they couldn’t have it. If only there was a test to find out which one they have….

And don’t forget that cokehead Trump Jr just told conservatives to abandon Christianity…saying “the teachings of Jesus has gotten us nothing.”….abandoning both religion and grammar in one fell swoop.

I love it when a plan comes together. The self destruction of the Republican Party is a thing of beauty.

*quality engineering, sadly only required because the original contractors cut corners and no regulators caught it before it failed. IMO, the companies that built it should be paying that $1 billion price tag. They’re the ones who used low quality concrete, left out literally tons of rebar, and decided a soft dirt emergency spillway on an earthen dam was good enough.

This is why we need a $3 trillion infrastructure bill. Really, we likely need ten times that. We haven’t invested in infrastructure for decades.
Had there been regular real inspections they likely would have noticed the problem when repairs only cost $100 million. There are literally thousands of dams in America with similar, or worse issues, and no money to even properly inspect them, much less fix them before they fail. Waiting for them to fail costs at least 10 times what pre-failure repairs cost, but we only care after they fail.

Thanks Manchin, our nation is crumbling thanks to you joining the obstructionist Republican Party, someone needs to burn his yacht with his family on board while he watches, then burn him in his mansion and distribute his hundreds of millions back to the state he stole it from.
Edit: Btw- Goldman Sacks has revised their 2022 estimate for gdp based on Manchin killing the infrastructure bill from over 3% to barely 2%. >$200 BILLION just gone with his vote against America. This as Manchin says “the Democrats aught to push me into the Republican Party”, but you’re already there, Joe. They aught to deny you funding and primary you, but not hand another seat to Republicans as you suggest, traitor. They really aught to strip you of all assignments, all funding, all security, and start broadcasting your location 24/7 until you are gone. If you ask me, they aught to drop you feet first in a slow meat grinder and make a day of it, televised. Then they aught to forced feed you to your family before taking every dime they have and denying them any assistance from anywhere. That’s what aught to happen to skidmarks like you.

Democrats are denied even a hearing for even their centrist picks (Garland) outrageously unconstitutionally, then Republicans pick FAR RIGHT politicos to replace moderate leftist judges. That was new, never before seen in our history.
Sotomayor and Karen are centrists, dumb shit. Kavenaugh and Barrett are extremist far right wingers….Barrett is barely even a judge, rushed in by a lame duck traitorous seditionist and his lackeys, directly contradicting their own excuse for not hearing Obama’s nomination. They actually admitted they rammed her through as fast as possible with the barest minimum of examination in order to pack the court in anticipation of them contesting the election results….admitted it before the election.
Kavenaugh and Barrett are both extremist Far right wingers, political activist judges, who lied in their confirmation, one is a multiple rapist, never investigated, the other a religious extremist with zero experience who said she would recuse herself on any issue of faith, but hasn’t recused herself from any.
Throw down the gauntlet?! Opposition to his nomination centered on his perceived willingness to roll back the civil rights rulings of the Warren and Burger courts, and his role in the Saturday Night Massacre during the Watergate scandal. On October 23, 1987, the Senate rejected Robert Bork's nomination to the Supreme Court by a roll call vote of 42—58. Bork's margin of rejection by the Senate remains, by percentage, the third-largest on record and broke a 142-year record for largest defeat of a Supreme Court nomination. A historic immediate bipartisan rejection because he was totally unsuited, and had undeniably tried to help Nixon cover up Watergate as acting AG by firing the special prosecutor at Nixon’s direction (the AG and deputy AG had quit when Nixon insisted)….*.
Absolutely nothing similar to Obama being denied a hearing for his picks for a year until his term ended….*. Holy shit! What stupidity.

There are far fewer “conservatives” today, the Republican Party is 26% of the population, not a majority.

Yes, they are throwing cases to the packed court as fast as possible before their stolen majority evaporates. I support a 15 justice Supreme Court with a constitutional amendment halting any further additions without a 2/3 majority….add 6 hyper liberals…no judicial experience necessary or even preferred…AOC would be great.

Why bring a case you might lose? Because cases are supposed to be heard on their merits, not based on political affiliation you ignorant cow. You think the Supreme Court should be a political wing of the right, choosing and deciding cases based on political affiliation, not the law, science, common sense, ethics, or precedent….but only when it serves you.

So, gun rights should be up to states? That’s the next step if you win that fight…the constitution dies and states decide everything….as civil war erupts. Great plan, so patriotic. Remember, California is big enough that when they require fingerprint scanners on all guns sold in the state, manufacturers will add them to all guns….when semi auto guns are banned, manufacturers will move to single shot guns….just like auto manufacturers changed their cars to meet our requirements. Is that your plan? Had you even considered what individual states being in control means? It means California becomes the leader of America, controlling the other states by means of our size, wealth, and international clout. Enjoy.

Not like this, it hasn’t. Never in American history has the court been politicized and weaponized against the will of the majority to ignore precedent (contrary to their oaths and confirmation statements) in order to overturn established law and constitutional rights as a political act. Never.

Just to prove a point, a white pastor (in similar clothes to Ahmaud) decided to run through the neighborhood carrying a TV on his shoulder for over 2 miles…..big surprise, he had absolutely no problem, no confrontation, no police called. I wonder why.