>> ^ctrlaltbleach:

So whats the difference between the whole Id, Ego, Superego conflict in your head and Schizophrenia? Doesn't everyone talk to themselves to some degree? When does it technically get to the Schizophrenia point?


I suppose that depends on whether the voice in your head is yours or somebody elses.

Schizophrenia is a pretty terrifying disease. Probably of all the diseases one might have, physical or mental, that would be more or less the worst I can imagine.

As a psychotherapist, I have made several dents in schizophrenia patients. Milton Erickson's success in denting a schizophrenia patient was to sit beside him on a park bench, mimicking the patient's every move and sound, until the patient was dented.

So whats the difference between the whole Id, Ego, Superego conflict in your head and Schizophrenia? Doesn't everyone talk to themselves to some degree? When does it technically get to the Schizophrenia point?

Thank you bmg for post this. As a psychotherapist, schizophrenia is a very tough condition to treat. No amount of therapy without proper medication can make a dent in the symptoms. It's one of the few mental health diagnoses where medication (anti-psychotics) really does help.

In the hypothetical of this video, this person is very fortunate because s/he has a loving relative/friend who understands him/her and is helping him/her get by. Having that person there makes a huge difference. Isolation+schizophrenia=danger.

The first thing I did was dig up the full blogs that Stan takes excerpts from and read them in context. Some of the excerpts take on very different meanings in their full context. When he refers to "starving" her, for example, he's talking about sending her to bed without dinner when she refused to eat what was made. This was something recommended by her doctor. I think most kids are "starved" this way at some point in their life and I don't think anyone ought to be screaming "child abuse" because a child refuses to eat their dinner.

That Stan would blatantly manipulate the facts to agree with his version of the story tells me not to trust anything he says. I then went and looked over some of his other content and found a lot of was what I would categorize as wingnut conspiracy theories.

Of course I'm not playing apologist for the parents. Whether they were right or wrong is another argument. My point is that the people in this thread, Stan's blog, and elsewhere, who are making their own diagnosis based on what they saw on Oprah, read in the LAT and/or saw in this video clip have no basis or qualifications to do so.

>> ^Whacky:

xxovercastxx said: "If you look at the rest of the blog you link to, it's a blog about how medication is bad, doctors are evil and everything is a conspiracy"
Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion; though the vast majority of the information written about in post on this blog are backed up by substantial evidence (there is also many humorous, satirical, and personal opinion pieces). I have to wonder if you took the time to actually do any research about what you read before dismissing it off the cuff xxovercastxx?
Of course anyone that wants to play apologist for these parents that are "admitted" abusers are entitled to their opinions (and there are many). I guess they are also many people that excuse our main stream media writing reports that excludes key related facts in their articles.
http://bipolar-stanscroniclesandnarritiv
e.blogspot.com/2009/07/los-angeles-times-reporter-defends.html
If that's what you coin wacky, then so be it.

I'm not sure why you're addressing some of this to me because a lot of it has nothing to do with what I said. I don't give a shit what the father's diagnosis is nor did I even allude to it. He's no more qualified to make a diagnosis than you, me, bipolar stan, or all the people leaving abusive comments on his blog. That was my whole point; that professionals have given her a diagnosis of schizophrenia and for some reason you, bipolar stan and a horde of internet warriors think you know better and you're all citing each other as supporting evidence.

I'm not sure what kinda fucked up glasses you're looking at this through to think they're parading her around for attention. They seem to be doing the same sort of things that lots of parents with children with mysterious/unusual conditions/illnesses do: get them exposure in the hopes of finding someone who can help.

Could bipolar stan be right? Sure. Young Earth Creationists could be right too, but since they can't back up their claims, I don't take them very seriously. Why should I listen to bipolar stan? Because lots of other people think along the same lines? See sentence 3 of this paragraph.

>> ^ponceleon:

Sorry, but just because the father, who has blogged about beating and starving his own child in order to deal with her behavior, says that his diagnosis is the right one doesn't make it so.
Again, if you had read my post, you'd see that I'm not saying that this is absolutely Munchausen, I'm just saying that these people are a BIT too media-hungry... Oprah, LATimes, etc... they seem like attention whores and frankly I think it is a good idea to question ANYONE who is more concerned about getting media coverage than anything else.
Is the blog I posted a bit whacky in general? Sure. Is it possible they are right? Are there a BUNCH more people who seemed to have the same idea? Yup.
Just because you find a doctor who is willing to go along with Munchausen by proxy doesn't make the diagnosis correct. I'd say by the very comments here in the sift that there is a lot of debate as to what exactly is going on with this girl and to dismiss the idea that the parents might be a bit nuts themselves is very dangerous

Sorry, but just because the father, who has blogged about beating and starving his own child in order to deal with her behavior, says that his diagnosis is the right one doesn't make it so.


Again, if you had read my post, you'd see that I'm not saying that this is absolutely Munchausen, I'm just saying that these people are a BIT too media-hungry... Oprah, LATimes, etc... they seem like attention whores and frankly I think it is a good idea to question ANYONE who is more concerned about getting media coverage than anything else.

Is the blog I posted a bit whacky in general? Sure. Is it possible they are right? Are there a BUNCH more people who seemed to have the same idea? Yup.

Just because you find a doctor who is willing to go along with Munchausen by proxy doesn't make the diagnosis correct. I'd say by the very comments here in the sift that there is a lot of debate as to what exactly is going on with this girl and to dismiss the idea that the parents might be a bit nuts themselves is very dangerous.

>> ^xxovercastxx:

From what I can tell it has come under a lot of scrutiny and criticism from people who have no idea what they're talking about. The father refers to them, in his blog, as people "prepared to make (or refute) a diagnosis based on 44 minutes of television, newspaper articles, or even what I have written on this blog" and it seems pretty accurate.
He is completely up front about the accusations of abuse in his blog and has been investigated several times.
If you look at the rest of the blog you link to, it's a blog about how medication is bad, doctors are evil and everything is a conspiracy. I also looked around to see if the blogger listed any sort of relevant qualifications, but I'm not seeing any.
>> ^ponceleon:
Just FYI, while schizophrenia is a real and horrible thing, this case in particular has come under a lot of scrutiny as being possible a case of Munchhausen Syndrome by proxy. To be short with it, this is the parents either consciously or unconsciously projecting the illness on their child in order to seek attention.
I'm not trying to minimize the disease where it is real, but there was something quite exhibitionist and attention-getting about the way the parents were parading her around in the video that made me suspicious and when I googled it, there were a lot of claims that this wasn't quite passing the legitimacy sniff test.
Something isn't right here, but it might not be schizophrenia...
Have a look at this:
http://bipolar-stanscroniclesandnar
ritive.blogspot.com/2009/07/6-year-old-jani-schofield-schizophrenic.html

A question: do you know how much the anti-psychotic medication has been researched on children? Children and adults do react very differently to substances. An example: children and young teenagers need a lot more alcohol to show signs of being drunk (relative to body size), than adults do.

What I'm coming at is this: is it unethical to give very strong medication to children, when there is little scientific evidence? Might it damage more than it helps?

In reply to this comment by brycewi19:
Being a psychotherapist myself who works mostly with children, schizophrenia is one of the toughest emotionally for me to deal with. Mostly because the person is innately aware of their disorder and they almost always hate it. Their acceptance of their hallucinations is almost always universal, which makes it easier to team with them, but it's also nearly impossible to completely eradicate the symptoms.

I've worked with a handful of kids with this and the onset usually doesn't happen until just after puberty (usually 13-16 y.o. age range). This has got to be the earliest onset I've seen.

The best thing these parents can do for themselves is really form a strong support system team around them to give them breaks, think of different parenting strategies, etc. I certainly hope there's mental health services in their area that can help meet the entire family's needs and not just Jani's. Jani needs two strong and refreshed parents to help her out just as much as medications (though I'm not entirely certain how well anti-psychotics work on pre-pubescents, actually).

Sad.

>> ^L0cky:
Btw, I had schizophrenia between the age of 6 and 10. From this video I can say it was probably far milder than what this little girl is going through. It wasn't a pleasant time in my childhood and it's something I've never shared with anyone. It mostly affected me whenever I felt tired or bored; and always when I was alone. As I had no way to express what was happening and even at that age was aware of how crazy people were treated, I never told anyone. Only at the age of about 17, when reading a psychological thriller novel that happened to be prefaced with a medical description of schizophrenia (rather than crappy Hollywood style split personality portrayals) did I actually realise what I had gone through.
Strangely, and thankfully, it all ended rather suddenly one day when I was about 10. I was alone, and got extremely frustrated and demanded as loud as I could in my head that it stop; then I refused to entertain the thoughts ever again. In the 10 years after I probably felt something like it again on two occasions; both very mild and I just accepted it and it went away in seconds. In the last 10 years I've been completely fine.
/me sharing


Though an active imagination may be linked to schizophrenia, it isn't. I too went through an similar thing with an active imagination from about 3-10: "seeing" animals coming out of the bath tap, "seeing" the visage of death in every dark room, not being able to stop narratives from going on in my mind. And I too, got sick of it and made it stop. But thats not what schizophrenia is.

So you were asking whether our sense of the passage of time differs from childhood to adulthood? We already know humans are notoriously bad at estimates of time. Forward and backward telescoping, for example, are well known psychological phenomena. But aren't you trying to link that to.. something else? Something about dreams ... it all starts to get hazy there.
>> ^kceaton1:

>> ^berticus:
Bleh. This conversation is too waffly for me.

I know the time stuff is wonky, but here is a link that talks about it a little. I know there is more information out there on this as there were some studies that came out about six-ten months ago. Some of that will be in the archived area for www.physorg.com.
If I find the more pertinent data I'll put a link in this post within a few days.

From what I can tell it has come under a lot of scrutiny and criticism from people who have no idea what they're talking about. The father refers to them, in his blog, as people "prepared to make (or refute) a diagnosis based on 44 minutes of television, newspaper articles, or even what I have written on this blog" and it seems pretty accurate.

He is completely up front about the accusations of abuse in his blog and has been investigated several times.

If you look at the rest of the blog you link to, it's a blog about how medication is bad, doctors are evil and everything is a conspiracy. I also looked around to see if the blogger listed any sort of relevant qualifications, but I'm not seeing any.

>> ^ponceleon:

Just FYI, while schizophrenia is a real and horrible thing, this case in particular has come under a lot of scrutiny as being possible a case of Munchhausen Syndrome by proxy. To be short with it, this is the parents either consciously or unconsciously projecting the illness on their child in order to seek attention.
I'm not trying to minimize the disease where it is real, but there was something quite exhibitionist and attention-getting about the way the parents were parading her around in the video that made me suspicious and when I googled it, there were a lot of claims that this wasn't quite passing the legitimacy sniff test.
Something isn't right here, but it might not be schizophrenia...
Have a look at this:
http://bipolar-stanscroniclesandnar
ritive.blogspot.com/2009/07/6-year-old-jani-schofield-schizophrenic.html

>> ^berticus:

Bleh. This conversation is too waffly for me.


I know the time stuff is wonky, but here is a link that talks about it a little. I know there is more information out there on this as there were some studies that came out about six-ten months ago. Some of that will be in the archived area for www.physorg.com.

If I find the more pertinent data I'll put a link in this post within a few days.

Well, no not so much - but, everybody's got their problems. In any case, I was just psyched to see something really useful in my channel. Heh - I've been away for over a year, and I still have a channel?! This place really has gone downhill, huh?

I'm posting some funk and old time rock'n'roll - stuff you and about 3 other people here might like. Check it out. Hope you and the boy are well.

In reply to this comment by kronosposeidon:
Long time no see! Hope things are good with you. Thanks for the promote.

In reply to this comment by jonny:
This knowledge needs to be *promoted

Just FYI, while schizophrenia is a real and horrible thing, this case in particular has come under a lot of scrutiny as being possible a case of Munchhausen Syndrome by proxy. To be short with it, this is the parents either consciously or unconsciously projecting the illness on their child in order to seek attention.

I'm not trying to minimize the disease where it is real, but there was something quite exhibitionist and attention-getting about the way the parents were parading her around in the video that made me suspicious and when I googled it, there were a lot of claims that this wasn't quite passing the legitimacy sniff test.

Something isn't right here, but it might not be schizophrenia...

Have a look at this:

http://bipolar-stanscroniclesandnarritive.blogspot.com/2009/07/6-year-old-jani-schofield-schizophrenic.html

Being a psychotherapist myself who works mostly with children, schizophrenia is one of the toughest emotionally for me to deal with. Mostly because the person is innately aware of their disorder and they almost always hate it. Their acceptance of their hallucinations is almost always universal, which makes it easier to team with them, but it's also nearly impossible to completely eradicate the symptoms.

I've worked with a handful of kids with this and the onset usually doesn't happen until just after puberty (usually 13-16 y.o. age range). This has got to be the earliest onset I've seen.

The best thing these parents can do for themselves is really form a strong support system team around them to give them breaks, think of different parenting strategies, etc. I certainly hope there's mental health services in their area that can help meet the entire family's needs and not just Jani's. Jani needs two strong and refreshed parents to help her out just as much as medications (though I'm not entirely certain how well anti-psychotics work on pre-pubescents, actually).

Sad.