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Michael Greger, MD - The Cure for Heart Disease

silvercord says...

Hey Stormsinger,

There are plenty of studies on how the diet affects heart and circulatory health. Here is a compilation of some of them:

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/105/7/893.full

They conclude:

The most important dietary recommendations are as follows:

Keep an energy balance, indicated by a body mass index below 25 kg/m2.

Consume <10% of energy from saturated fat.
Consume <2% of energy from trans fat.
Eat (fatty) fish at least once a week.

Eat ≥400 g of vegetables and fruits per day.

Limit salt consumption to <6 g/d.
If these recommendations are followed, coronary heart disease can be eliminated to a large extent in the population aged <70 years, and by implementing these recommendations at middle-age, there will be lower annual costs for medical care in older age.


The data continues to pour in that diet can prevent and reverse heart disease. To the extent people eat healthily, they can benefit from the truth those studies serve to illuminate.

Stormsinger said:

I think you mean "ascends". Without peer-reviewed studies (which pretty well requires stats), it's not science.

Michael Greger, MD - The Cure for Heart Disease

curiousity says...

My dad just had to have a stent put in and have medication. He's an active person who hates taking medication. He started following a diet by Esselstyn which is essentially plants-based and very low fat (i.e. no added oils, etc) with the goal of getting off his medication. I watched a video by Esselstyn and it was interesting. (I'll have to watch this one later as I need to leave for work.) He did not require any of his study group to exercise. One point he brought up that I hadn't heard before was about how olive oil is actual bad for you. While it does create a better ratio of cholesterol, it still increases it. He talked about two sequential studies (monkey and then rat) where each group were given either monounsaturated oil (olive oil) or saturated oil. At the end when the autopsies were done, both had very similar build of of plaque, etc in their arteries. It's made me decide to try to follow in my dad's footsteps when it comes to diet.

I also have a friend who is very happy and almost constant advocate of the paleo diet. IMHO, I think anyone will feel better if they steer away from processed foods, eat a variety, get plenty of fiber, etc.

Butter vs Margarine

siftbot says...

Tags for this video have been changed from 'butter, margarine, fat, saturated fat, unsaturated, hydrogenation, cholesterol' to 'fat, saturated fat, unsaturated, hydrogenation, cholesterol, ASAPScience' - edited by messenger

Why U.S. Internet Access is Slow, Costly, and Unfair

charliem says...

Data transmission in modern worlds follows rules of contention.
ISP's typically provision their networks with 1:50 or higher contention ratios, because they know that 50 people on any normal day wont use up 1 torrent-user's typical bandwidth consumption under full saturation.

The ratios are calculated from the average access edge speeds....say avg speed is 3mbps, they could provision 50 customers to share 3mbps in the core network before they consider upgrading.

Contention....noone uses the entire networks bandwidth the entire time its available. Otherwise networking equipment and access costs would be 50 times greater!!

Its just not efficient to plan for everyone to saturate everyones links at the same time and not have a bottleneck....because 99% of the rest of the time, noones using shit on average. What a waste of power, space, equipment, service fees, support contracts, engineers to maintain the equipment / network etc..etc...etc...

Celebrity Encounters (Blog Entry by lucky760)

chingalera says...

I've met a few heavyweight jazz musicians-Dizzy Gillespie, Marcus Roberts, Sonny Rollins, McCoy Tyner, Herbie Mann, uhhh...Met B.B. KIng after a show (all these are in passing after shows) Partied with Ike Willis a couple times in different states (guitar player for Zappa for years)
Played 3 holes of golf onna photo shoot with Nolan Ryan when he pitched for the Astros.
Met a few rock stars, Met and spoke with Roger Daltrey when I was 11 years old atta Mall record shop in Dallas(1976 NA Tour, last with Kieth Moon) , my mom was standing in line to get her albums autographed, and then when it was her turn, she grabbed Daltrey by his head and hi-jacked him with a wet one, got a picture of that one...Daltrey looked overwhelmed and looked over at me and asked, "That your mum?!"

Most impressive star-saturation came Labor Day weekend, 1975 in Atoka Oklahoma atta 3-day outdoor concert event...camp out-I was 10, found a backstage pass onna chain, and wandered around backstage and on buses with a fuckload of country stars.
Waylon Jennings, Jerry Jeff Walker, can't remember em all, I was a little kid but i remember a lotta musicians tripping on me running around backstage-Some thought I was just a roadie's kid.
Met Jerry Lee Lewis backstage there....

bioshock infinite - beast of america trailer

artician says...

>> ^Deano:

Odd that they couldn't get this released for the Xmas rush.


Publishers are slowly (thankfully) recognizing that the Christmas-rush is bullshit. More are waiting until just after Christmas when they don't have to compete with the Xmas-game hype, and gamers have already blazed through the holiday offerings and are looking for something for the new year.

I have always bought less games around Christmas simply because of the over-saturation. I'll pick one (maybe) and wait to see how the others fare and get them when they're prices drop, if at all. I get frustrated at the complete lack of new games in the summer seasons too, so I'm happy more releases are spreading out.

And this looks like it will be around the same level of quality of the original. Great atmosphere and amazing visualization, but tired and overly-scripted gameplay. The character animation, though, looks particularly horrible, which is a bummer.

Banned iphone 5 Promo

yellowc says...

Sorry, perhaps I should of worded that point differently, I meant that a ppi that allows for retina (android equiv) is sufficient, after this point we need to compare screens on more noticeable differences. The S3 and the iPhone5 are both at 306ppi, the differences is screen size/resolution, colour, rendering algorithms and screen tech (pentile vs IPS). Which is a preference, I have no problem with you liking larger phones, this is just not a point of advantage or disadvantage you can target as a phone fault, it is a user choice. Some people also prefer looking at over-saturated colours, they find them more "real" or "vivid" etc, that's all fine.

The other points I think we can leave as is.

Yes iTunes is a heaping pile of shit, I'm not about to defend it, I got my N7 with Jellybean and saw how refined the Play experience is, switching accounts on the fly, loads content for that account etc. It was simply put, light years ahead of the syncing bullshit that Apple puts me through. In fact the N7 is really the first Android device I've been actively recommending to people, it is undeniably a solid good product, I can not fault it (other than lacklustre 3rd party support but I won't be blaming Android for that).

But really, these days, you can ignore iTunes and I'm guessing a lot of people do or are content with what it does. To stick with my mum, her iPad has never plugged in to a PC (except when she couldn't do OTA updates but she didn't have to deal with that), she does everything on the device. In fact, she wouldn't go near a computer, Apple or otherwise, she has absolutely no interest in them fullstop. My mother-in-law is the same, it took me about a year to convince her to pick-up an iPad, now she does her shopping online, uses email etc but she has no desire to touch anything else and still won't step out of the apps she knows. These two weren't a market just a few years ago, you wouldn't even dream of bothering with them.

I don't know what it is that makes it so appealing but Apple seems to and they focus all their attention on it. I know also this is anecdotal (but you don't have to look far to see more). Everything you see isn't aimed at us, I find most Apple's marketing over the top and cheesy, this is why I can find this video funny even if I do prefer Apple products, it just isn't for us. The "lens...cover" line had me in tears.

I know we like to think we can understand how non-tech people work but we simply don't, I have been teaching the basics to people for a long time and I'll still freely admit I'm still bewildered by how little people actually understand. They're not stupid people, we just take it all for granted, it is a different mindset entirely and is why the tech world has such a hard time understanding Apple. For instance, do you know how useful iOS is to the accessibly challenged? It is light years ahead of Android or any body else, it isn't even a choice for this market, no matter what the other phones offer. iOS is the only realistic option.

I've probably gone a tangent here but it all comes back to why Apple is what it is and why I try to defend against attacks that compare it at a tech race level. I don't want the world to go back to what it was, there is room in the market for the needs of everyone to be met.

>> ^spoco2:

@yellowc A fine rebuttal sir, except lacking in a great deal of thinking things through.
First you say the screen on the phone is the best due to colour, ppi and fonts, and then say that ppi doesn't matter. (Higher resolution in a smaller screen = higher ppi) Personally? I think this pixel density bullshit is some finely crafted bullshit by Apple to create a metric that no-one cared about before, and really kind of shouldn't, but they tout it because they like to make sure they win it... so, their 4" screen with its weird 1136 x 640 resolution is apparently better than a 4.64" screen with 1280x720 (so native 720p HD)? I too wasn't sold on larger screens. My last phone was 3.5" just like the current iPhone, and I thought I wouldn't want a phone with a larger screen as then it wouldn't fit in my pocket, and would be a pain in the butt. Then I tried on the Galaxy Nexus in store and found it fit in my pocket better (by being thinner) and was soooo much nicer for viewing content on than 3.5"
I said myself that I'd only ever used NFC once, don't much care about it. Can see that it could be cool having stickers/pads in your car and on your bedside table to automatically put your phone into various modes based on what you're doing, but I've cared so little I haven't ordered the tags to try it.
Video calling... who actually uses it? As I said, we've had it here in Australia for 9 years. Most feature and smart phones have supported it. I've been able to do it for years. Have I once felt the need? Nope.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with iOS as an operating system, what I'm saying is that it LOOKS amazingly old, feels really quite antiquated. I look forward to Apple redesigning it and making it fresh again. Without being an Android fanboy, I find the look and design of ICS and Jellybean Android to be so much more fresh than iOS. This is nothing to do with functionality, just look, something which Apple could change so easily, it's odd that they are letting it get so stale.
In terms of Apple 'understanding' the regular Joe... what I don't get is how such a large number of my friends have ended up completely wiping their entire iTunes library because of the insanely stupid way in which iTunes handles moving your device between computers and how it handles syncing them. That is not user friendly, has been going on for years, and yet never addressed.
Horses for courses. Look, there are plenty of reasons to go with an iDevice... but the ever burgeoning market share of Android (now more than Apple) demonstrates that not everyone wants to be locked into the Apple ecosphere.

The "Mourning After" Pill-supplied by your friendly rapist!

PostalBlowfish says...

>> ^bareboards2:

I'm guessing you are a man?
Because as a woman, I started howling in recognition of the lambasting of the whole Akin fiasco that was apparent as soon as the woman started speaking.
Of course, I am not the Arbitrator of All Femme Comedy. I'll be interested to see if other women sifters find this funny.

>> ^PostalBlowfish:
its a little heavy handed to be labeled a joke, and im not sure where the punchline is.



I don't think my penis had anything to do with how I didn't laugh. I got a decent chuckle out of the article I read yesterday that showed Akin dropping 11 points in the polls. I think the obviousness of the video and the saturation of the issue in the news works against it. Almost immediately, I thought "ok I get it" and I only gave it the next minute thinking there was going to be a joke.

Hopefully 3 months from now it will be a lot funnier.

Scientific Weight Loss Tips

LarsaruS says...

>> ^pyloricvalve:

In "Why we get fat", Gary Taubes argues very persuasively that the above is almost entirely wrong. Increasing exercise will have have the effect of increasing hunger or reducing your activity at other times through tiredness. Eating less will likewise reduce your activity level or lead to levels of hunger that are intolerable in the long term. The way to lose weight according to him is the Atkins, South Beach, Primal method of reducing sugar and carb intake to something very low. Personally I found it very convincing and I strongly recommend the book.


Yup, I've done Keto combined with Intermittent Fasting (I usually eat one meal a day after I get home from work, sometimes I eat lunch too if we go out and eat at my workplace) and I've lost ~30 kg (~66 pounds) in 5-6 months and I have not been hungry once since I entered ketosis. No exercise involved at all either. (Yes yes... 1 data point does not a fact make, especially when they are subjective feelings)

So instead of eating sugar with more sugar and fat-free foods with added sugar in it to make it palatable... eat natural full-fat products and protein and be full all day... or you could eat sugar and have an insulin spike 30 mins later and end up with a lower blood sugar than you started with... unless you eat again. Ergo the "You should 5 meals a day" thing.

Some linky things
Scientific sources about the effects of Ketogenic Diet
1 Cancer
2 Alzheimers
3 Diabetes (Type 2)
4 Cardiovascular health and Dietary saturated fat
5 Review of LC diet and health markers

Blog
6 Cholesterol (Blog by a doctor so iffy source but interesting stuff anyway; I recommend reading all parts really)
7 How we came to believe cholesterol and fat is bad for us (From the same blog. 1 hour talk on the subject)

Video series/lectures
8 Cancer again (Video lecture)
9 The role of fat in weight loss (Video series, 3 parts)
10 Why we get fat (Video series, 3 parts)
11 2011 Public Forum in San Francisco at Nutrition and Health Conference (Video series, 4 part playlist)

You can also look into some of the videos on the sift such as:
12 The Food Revolution (Video/lecture sifted on VS)
13 Sugar the bitter truth.

(Seems they are both sifted by me... Oh my... self promotion galore!)

Blunder at the Olympics After Serena Williams Wins Gold

FlowersInHisHair says...

>> ^Deano:

Does anyone stop to think why the hell are we staring at flags like they're amazingly important and significant. I'm beginning to feel abnormal seeing the number of wide-eyed flag-waving Brits on the tv. They really buy into this nationalistic crap.
Makes a change from all the wide-eyed flag-waving nationalistic Americans that saturate the media the rest of the time.

Christian Bakery Denies Service to Gay Couple

petpeeved says...

>> ^shinyblurry:

The parameters of marriage was determined by God at the beginning of His creation. We have turned away from God in these United States, and so we have turned away from the biblical standard, however, not as much as gay marriage proponents have stated. Even with the media saturation and the constant infiltration of gay special interest groups into the national discourse, we have these realities:
1. A gay marriage amendment has never passed at the ballot box. It has failed everywhere it has been tried, with the voters rejecting it 32 times since 1998.
2. Constitutional bans on gay marriage have been successful 100 percent of time at the ballot box, passing in 31 states, typically with wide margins. This includes liberal strongholds like California and Hawaii. 38 states ban it to some degree.
The people don't appear to want gay marriage, and they are strongly in favor of the biblical definition of marriage. If you don't want to accept the reality that God has defined marriage, then accept the reality that most people are not that hot for this, and they don't want to take the country in this direction.
>> ^petpeeved:
>> ^shinyblurry:
If polygamy were legal, would it be a civil rights issue if he refused to bake one for a polygamous wedding? How about a cake for someone wanted to marry their dog, or their car? He believes marriage is between a man and a woman and refuses to make a cake for any other kind of wedding. This has nothing to do with their sexual orientation, it has to do with his moral opposition to the corruption of the institution of marriage.
>> ^petpeeved:
>> ^shinyblurry:
Don't try that shit, it's discrimination, you know exactly why he was refusing to make a gay wedding cake that type of lying isn't going to help your argument. 2nd it's not a double-standard to hand someone their ass when they say something stupid. You do something counter to the way a society has been going you get shouted down in the public square. We're moving towards legalizing gay marriage and giving equal rights to all americans, you go counter to that you're gonna get yelled at.
Sorry but you're wrong, it isn't discrimination. They were still able to do business there if they wanted another kind of cake, and I'm sure they're still welcome to do so. The man doesn't want to make a gay wedding cake because he believes marriage is between a man and a woman, and that gay marriage is immoral.
Also filth posted on message boards? Is this your first day on the internet? I'm pretty sure Justin Beiber hasn't done anything to anyone on the internet and still he's talked about worse than Hitler. You're in hyperbole country mother fucker, deal with it.
Now you want to continue discriminating against people and not doing your job to make cakes or hand out birth control pills than yeah your life is gonna be made harder. Too bad because you're lives are already way too easy as it is. Complaining about christian discrimination, bitch there's children dying in Africa, shut the fuck up.

So discrimination against Christians is okay, because people talk trash all the time and children are dying in Africa? In other words, you just wave your hand and make excuses..proving that you don't really think discrimination is wrong, so long as its against people you disagree with. It's clear you want equal rights for everyone except Christians.
>> ^Yogi

So blacks weren't being discriminated against on the buses and water fountains, because, hey, they could still ride...just not in the front of the bus and hey, they could get a drink...just not at this particular water fountain.
Sounds like the sequel to separate but equal.


You know what is the main flaw in the argument of Christians who claim that they have the sole right to define what the institution of marriage represents and who is permitted to access it?
Simply this:
Christians don't own, didn't invent, and have no right to control marriage. They don't hold the patent on it. Not the idea of marriage, not the word of marriage, nothing. The concept of marriage belongs to the human race and predates Christianity by millenia and continents. Therefore, they have no special rights or privilege to impose their definition of it upon the rest of the nation.
But don't take my word for it. You have google at your finger tips.



As much as I want to applaud you for shifting to a "fact" based argument with elements of reasoning as opposed to your pure belief based system of thought, I'm greatly confused as to where your statistics are coming from. I'm also a little irked that you forced me to do all the googling by the way. There are mountains of evidence that on every front, from the popular vote to constitutional challenges, that gay marriage is gaining support, not losing it.

Here, let me google it for you.

Just a few rulings on the constitutional level:

November 2003: the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court ruled that barring gays and lesbians from marrying violates the state constitution. The Massachusetts Chief Justice concluded that to “deny the protections, benefits, and obligations conferred by civil marriage” to gay couples was unconstitutional because it denied “the dignity and equality of all individuals” and made them “second-class citizens.” Strong opposition followed the ruling.

August 4, 2010: Chief U.S. District Judge Vaughn Walker ruled that Proposition 8, the 2008 referendum that banned same-sex marriage in California, violates the 14th Amendment's equal protection clause. "Proposition 8 singles out gays and lesbians and legitimates their unequal treatment," Vaughn wrote in his opinion. "Proposition 8 perpetuates the stereotype that gays and lesbians are incapable of forming long-term loving relationships and that gays and lesbians are not good parents."

February 7, 2012: the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in California ruled 2–1 that Proposition 8, the 2008 referendum that banned same-sex marriage in state, is unconstitutional because it violates the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment. In the ruling, the court said, the law "operates with no apparent purpose but to impose on gays and lesbians, through the public law, a majority's private disapproval of them and their relationships."

On the popular opinion front:

A June 6 CNN/ORC International poll showed that a majority of Americans support same-sex marriage being legalized at 54%, while 42% are opposed.

A May 22 NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll showed that 54% of Americans would support a law in their state making same-sex marriage legal, with 40% opposed.

A May 17-20 ABC News/Washington Post poll showed that 53% believe same-sex marriage should be legal, with only 39% opposed, a low-water mark for opposition in any national poll so far.

A May 10 USA Today/Gallup Poll, taken one day after Barack Obama became the first sitting President to express support for same-sex marriage,[14] showed 51% of Americans agreed with the President's endorsement. A May 8 Gallup Poll showed plurality support for same-sex marriage nationwide, with 50% in favor and 48% opposed.

An April Pew Research Center poll showed support for same-sex marriage at 47%, while opposition fell to an all-time low of 43%.

A March 7-10 ABC News/Washington Post poll found 52% of adults thought it should be legal for same-sex couples to get married, while 42% disagreed and 5% were unsure.[18] A March survey by the Public Religion Research Institute found 52% of Americans supported allowing same-sex couples to marry, while 44% opposed.

A February 29 - March 3 NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll found 49% of adults supported allowing same-sex couples to marry, while 40% opposed.

One last note on a slightly different topic: religious groups funding anti-gay legislation, most notoriously, the Prop. 8 campaign in California. If Christians are going to use their funds as a group, not individuals, why are they being given tax-free exemptions? Why should people, such as myself, who don't share their beliefs, subsidize their political ambitions?

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”

I don't want the government to curtail the ability of the religious to practice their faith but I don't think the first amendment was intended to give religions the overwhelming competitive advantage of tax-free money at the ballot box.

This could be solved two ways: no more organizational level contributions to political campaigns, i.e. the close to 200k the Mormon Church donated to support Prop. 8, OR remove tax-exempt status from religions.

By the way, it might seem impossible to conceive of a time when tax-exempt status for religion wasn't taken for granted but it's been a controversial issue from the inception of America. For example, even President Grant and Madison were against tax-exemption for religions.

Christian Bakery Denies Service to Gay Couple

shinyblurry says...

The parameters of marriage was determined by God at the beginning of His creation. We have turned away from God in these United States, and so we have turned away from the biblical standard, however, not as much as gay marriage proponents have stated. Even with the media saturation and the constant infiltration of gay special interest groups into the national discourse, we have these realities:

1. A gay marriage amendment has never passed at the ballot box. It has failed everywhere it has been tried, with the voters rejecting it 32 times since 1998.

2. Constitutional bans on gay marriage have been successful 100 percent of time at the ballot box, passing in 31 states, typically with wide margins. This includes liberal strongholds like California and Hawaii. 38 states ban it to some degree.

The people don't appear to want gay marriage, and they are strongly in favor of the biblical definition of marriage. If you don't want to accept the reality that God has defined marriage, then accept the reality that most people are not that hot for this, and they don't want to take the country in this direction.
>> ^petpeeved:

>> ^shinyblurry:
If polygamy were legal, would it be a civil rights issue if he refused to bake one for a polygamous wedding? How about a cake for someone wanted to marry their dog, or their car? He believes marriage is between a man and a woman and refuses to make a cake for any other kind of wedding. This has nothing to do with their sexual orientation, it has to do with his moral opposition to the corruption of the institution of marriage.
>> ^petpeeved:
>> ^shinyblurry:
Don't try that shit, it's discrimination, you know exactly why he was refusing to make a gay wedding cake that type of lying isn't going to help your argument. 2nd it's not a double-standard to hand someone their ass when they say something stupid. You do something counter to the way a society has been going you get shouted down in the public square. We're moving towards legalizing gay marriage and giving equal rights to all americans, you go counter to that you're gonna get yelled at.
Sorry but you're wrong, it isn't discrimination. They were still able to do business there if they wanted another kind of cake, and I'm sure they're still welcome to do so. The man doesn't want to make a gay wedding cake because he believes marriage is between a man and a woman, and that gay marriage is immoral.
Also filth posted on message boards? Is this your first day on the internet? I'm pretty sure Justin Beiber hasn't done anything to anyone on the internet and still he's talked about worse than Hitler. You're in hyperbole country mother fucker, deal with it.
Now you want to continue discriminating against people and not doing your job to make cakes or hand out birth control pills than yeah your life is gonna be made harder. Too bad because you're lives are already way too easy as it is. Complaining about christian discrimination, bitch there's children dying in Africa, shut the fuck up.

So discrimination against Christians is okay, because people talk trash all the time and children are dying in Africa? In other words, you just wave your hand and make excuses..proving that you don't really think discrimination is wrong, so long as its against people you disagree with. It's clear you want equal rights for everyone except Christians.
>> ^Yogi

So blacks weren't being discriminated against on the buses and water fountains, because, hey, they could still ride...just not in the front of the bus and hey, they could get a drink...just not at this particular water fountain.
Sounds like the sequel to separate but equal.


You know what is the main flaw in the argument of Christians who claim that they have the sole right to define what the institution of marriage represents and who is permitted to access it?
Simply this:
Christians don't own, didn't invent, and have no right to control marriage. They don't hold the patent on it. Not the idea of marriage, not the word of marriage, nothing. The concept of marriage belongs to the human race and predates Christianity by millenia and continents. Therefore, they have no special rights or privilege to impose their definition of it upon the rest of the nation.
But don't take my word for it. You have google at your finger tips.

Strangely erotic milk ad

Fantomas says...

>> ^chingalera:

Let's seeeee...Graceful flavor
100% Colesterol-free
low in saturated fat
naturally lactose-free
non genetically-modified ingredients..Yep, soy milk and semen share many refreshing and beneficial qualities "But does soy milk offer this, honey???...."
Move over Silk® ,It's MAN-MILK™ ....Only the jizmo, with proteins, vitamin C, amino acids, citrate, enzymes, flavins, fructose, acid phosphatase, citric acid, fibrinolysin, prostate specific antigen, proteolytic enzymes, zinc and baby-makin', wiggly-wigglers-has the unique combination that satisfies!!
But can you provide carton fulls at a time?

Strangely erotic milk ad

chingalera says...

Let's seeeee...Graceful flavor
100% Colesterol-free
low in saturated fat
naturally lactose-free
non genetically-modified ingredients..Yep, soy milk and semen share many refreshing and beneficial qualities "But does soy milk offer this, honey???...."
Move over Silk® ,It's MAN-MILK™ ....Only the jizmo, with proteins, vitamin C, amino acids, citrate, enzymes, flavins, fructose, acid phosphatase, citric acid, fibrinolysin, prostate specific antigen, proteolytic enzymes, zinc and baby-makin', wiggly-wigglers-has the unique combination that satisfies!!

A feelgood dashcam video

Auger8 jokingly says...

Ya sorta like when that guy tackled the idiot trying to steal the the Olympic torch.

>> ^Yogi:

I love it when good deeds get recognized. This kinda stuff happens all the time everywhere, never gets recognized enough. Maybe this will be a positive thing with everyone having cameras and our image saturated culture.



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