>> ^Trancecoach:

Placebo effect on mice, Westy?
You must be joking!
Lolololol
>> ^westy:
>> ^Trancecoach:
So there's actually been some hard data collected on the effects of prayer on healing. The effects are extremely modest (albeit statistically significant).
Dr. Bernard Grad worked with a self-proclaimed healer, Oskar Estabany, and observed that Estebany could "psychically" (i.e., prayer-at-a-distance) inhibit the damage caused by saline to red blood cells, thereby decreasing the healing time of wounds in mice, as compared to a control group of mice for whose healing was not prayed.
That said, I think this family needs to get the hint... unless of course the man's right, and the woman's foot IS all she has (and judging by her family, he might be right).

I call bullshit
as sumone said the only time praying helps is when u tell sumone that people are giving a shit about them and u end up with posative phycalogical effects , and placebo effect.
the same thing would happen if u told an ill person that people were thinking about them and wanted them to get better.

as for this video WTF BBQ lol



I stoped talking about mice and the study after i typed "I call Bull shit"

you took what i said out of context , i was restating the realty of things on humans and just highlighting what sumone else had alredy said , the fact that you were talking about mice is not evan relivent.

Fact is there have been so manny studies and its allso the sort of thing that if it worked you would have plenty of evidence evan before you did a study.

Yeah, if the mice believe that "medicine" is going to help them, then it will work.....

What I want to know is how they convinced the mice they were sick to begin with in order for the placebo affect to work.

>> ^Trancecoach:

Placebo effect on mice, Westy?
You must be joking!
Lolololol
>> ^westy:
>> ^Trancecoach:
So there's actually been some hard data collected on the effects of prayer on healing. The effects are extremely modest (albeit statistically significant).
Dr. Bernard Grad worked with a self-proclaimed healer, Oskar Estabany, and observed that Estebany could "psychically" (i.e., prayer-at-a-distance) inhibit the damage caused by saline to red blood cells, thereby decreasing the healing time of wounds in mice, as compared to a control group of mice for whose healing was not prayed.
That said, I think this family needs to get the hint... unless of course the man's right, and the woman's foot IS all she has (and judging by her family, he might be right).

I call bullshit
as sumone said the only time praying helps is when u tell sumone that people are giving a shit about them and u end up with posative phycalogical effects , and placebo effect.
the same thing would happen if u told an ill person that people were thinking about them and wanted them to get better.

as for this video WTF BBQ lol

Grad, Bernard. "Paranormal Healing and Life Energy." American Society for Psychical Research Newsletter 7 (1981).

——. "Some Biological Effects of the 'Laying on of Hands': A Review of Experiments with Animals and Plants." Journal of the American Society for Psychical Research 59 (1965).

——. "A Telekinetic Effect on Plant Growth." International Journal of Parapsychology 3 (1961); 5 (1963).

Grad, Bernard, Remi J. Cadoret, and G. I. Paul. "The Influence of an Unorthodox Method of Treatment on Wound Healing in Mice." International Journal of Parapsychology 3, no. 2 (1961).


>> ^hpqp:

>> ^Trancecoach:
So there's actually been some hard data collected on the effects of prayer on healing. The effects are extremely modest (albeit statistically significant).
Dr. Bernard Grad worked with a self-proclaimed healer, Oskar Estabany, and observed that Estebany could "psychically" (i.e., prayer-at-a-distance) inhibit the damage caused by saline to red blood cells, thereby decreasing the healing time of wounds in mice, as compared to a control group of mice for whose healing was not prayed.
That said, I think this family needs to get the hint... unless of course the man's right, and the woman's foot IS all she has (and judging by her family, he might be right).

Link to study, please?

Agreed. Link please.>> ^hpqp:

>> ^Trancecoach:
So there's actually been some hard data collected on the effects of prayer on healing. The effects are extremely modest (albeit statistically significant).
Dr. Bernard Grad worked with a self-proclaimed healer, Oskar Estabany, and observed that Estebany could "psychically" (i.e., prayer-at-a-distance) inhibit the damage caused by saline to red blood cells, thereby decreasing the healing time of wounds in mice, as compared to a control group of mice for whose healing was not prayed.
That said, I think this family needs to get the hint... unless of course the man's right, and the woman's foot IS all she has (and judging by her family, he might be right).

Link to study, please?

Placebo effect on mice, Westy?
You must be joking!
Lolololol

>> ^westy:

>> ^Trancecoach:
So there's actually been some hard data collected on the effects of prayer on healing. The effects are extremely modest (albeit statistically significant).
Dr. Bernard Grad worked with a self-proclaimed healer, Oskar Estabany, and observed that Estebany could "psychically" (i.e., prayer-at-a-distance) inhibit the damage caused by saline to red blood cells, thereby decreasing the healing time of wounds in mice, as compared to a control group of mice for whose healing was not prayed.
That said, I think this family needs to get the hint... unless of course the man's right, and the woman's foot IS all she has (and judging by her family, he might be right).

I call bullshit
as sumone said the only time praying helps is when u tell sumone that people are giving a shit about them and u end up with posative phycalogical effects , and placebo effect.
the same thing would happen if u told an ill person that people were thinking about them and wanted them to get better.

as for this video WTF BBQ lol

>> ^Trancecoach:

So there's actually been some hard data collected on the effects of prayer on healing. The effects are extremely modest (albeit statistically significant).
Dr. Bernard Grad worked with a self-proclaimed healer, Oskar Estabany, and observed that Estebany could "psychically" (i.e., prayer-at-a-distance) inhibit the damage caused by saline to red blood cells, thereby decreasing the healing time of wounds in mice, as compared to a control group of mice for whose healing was not prayed.
That said, I think this family needs to get the hint... unless of course the man's right, and the woman's foot IS all she has (and judging by her family, he might be right).


Link to study, please?

>> ^Trancecoach:

So there's actually been some hard data collected on the effects of prayer on healing. The effects are extremely modest (albeit statistically significant).
Dr. Bernard Grad worked with a self-proclaimed healer, Oskar Estabany, and observed that Estebany could "psychically" (i.e., prayer-at-a-distance) inhibit the damage caused by saline to red blood cells, thereby decreasing the healing time of wounds in mice, as compared to a control group of mice for whose healing was not prayed.
That said, I think this family needs to get the hint... unless of course the man's right, and the woman's foot IS all she has (and judging by her family, he might be right).


I call bullshit

as sumone said the only time praying helps is when u tell sumone that people are giving a shit about them and u end up with posative phycalogical effects , and placebo effect.

the same thing would happen if u told an ill person that people were thinking about them and wanted them to get better.


as for this video WTF BBQ lol

So there's actually been some hard data collected on the effects of prayer on healing. The effects are extremely modest (albeit statistically significant).

Dr. Bernard Grad worked with a self-proclaimed healer, Oskar Estabany, and observed that Estebany could "psychically" (i.e., prayer-at-a-distance) inhibit the damage caused by saline to red blood cells, thereby decreasing the healing time of wounds in mice, as compared to a control group of mice for whose healing was not prayed.

That said, I think this family needs to get the hint... unless of course the man's right, and the woman's foot IS all she has (and judging by her family, he might be right).

>> ^KnivesOut:

So what's left? A person missing 75% of brain mass in a vegetative state?


I can't speak for this case, but I had a benign tumor the size of a kiwi fruit removed from the left side of my brain 7 years ago, and I'm fine (albeit on anti-seizure meds for probably the rest of my life). How damaging the tumor or cyst is to the brain I think has to do with how quickly it grows,and surely the location; it's probably generally less serious if the tumor/cyst growth occurs on the "outside" of the brain vs inside it.

The brain gets compressed to accommodate the growth, but the brain itself in some/many? cases isn't considered damaged. In my case the compression of the brain finally got to the point where I had a grand-mal seizure -- that was my first clue anything was wrong. After my surgery I basically had a dented brain, but it "bounced back" to its former size over a few months.

My guess is that this person had a similar experience, that they had no clue it was there for quite a while, even though their brain was getting progressively more squashed and they might have been having weird symptoms, like motor or behavioral oddities, or seizures, etc. Depends on the area of the brain that's being stimulated from the compression.

Oh, here's more info on the video from the link provided by Hawkinson above:
_________________

The video below uses saline to gradually "float" the cyst out of the brain. The neurosurgeon gently squirts small volumes of saline into the space around and behind the cyst until it neatly plops into the surgical pan, intact. The patient, a 16 year old girl, fully recovered.

- And, what happens to the hole the cyst left in the brain?

"The empty space initially gets filled up by the fluid which covers thr brain called CSF, then the brain which was compressed by the cyst expands to normal state filling up the space."

It's actually pointless to introduce the solar energy input into the equation at all Crake. The sun has shone and will shine for far longer than human beings will ever manage to survive on this planet. When I and many others look at agricultural reform we look at those aspects of the food production chain that humans can control and can change. The 'facilitation' you talk about is the entire crux of the modern day agricultural dilemma. There are an infinite number of ways that facilitation could happen, and the concern and debate is whether or not the road industry has chosen for us is the one that will bare the most fruit. Clearly it has not. The reasons, myriad, I don't want to write a thesis on the sift.

And I agree, when you start looking at government crop subsidies the energy calculation does lose its relevance. Why? Because you have jumped a 100 steps up a chain that was problematic at its root. The agricultural subsidy issue is a whole other Pandora's box.

Again, it's not the Haber process itself that is unsustainable, it is the entire industrial agricultural framework. The Haber process's dependence on natural gas is problematic, and even with future technological developments aside, it's a reductionist solution that undermines the multitude of complimentary farming techniques that could naturally introduce nitrogen into the soil. It's the kind of simplified agricultural solution that corporate agribusiness monopolies love, and it's this mutual reinforcement that causes concern. Again, the Haber process is a small piece of huge puzzle, we digress.

And with regards to future developments, let me illustrate why future developments are almost irrelevant to many of the problems at hand. In India for example there is a 500 year old tradition of aquaculture, for shrimp specifically. Most of the farms are small, local and sustainably run using various aquaculture farming methods (if you are interested you could read up on the Bheri system of aquaculture, just one of the many traditional systems).

This 'third world' farming technique as some might call it is just as profitable and has yields just as large as the more intensive commercial and industrial aquaculture methods. It has stood the test of time and it also forms the back bone of India's shrimp export economy, the largest in the world.

Industrial shrimp farming has had dismal success around the world. Taiwan, China, Mexico, Ecuador, all these countries have had huge issues keeping commercial shrimp farming sustainable. Wherever commercial shrimp farming has been tried, it has failed to a large degree, usually due to major disease outbreaks. That's why the call it the 'rape and run' industry.

Isn't it strange that the more industrial shrimp farms are introduced in India (due to government subsidies and incentives), the more 'environmental issues' they have to deal with that just didn't exist with the 'traditional third world systems' . . . mangrove destruction, drinking water pollution (from antibiotics and pesticides add to the shrimp ponds to minimize disease) , salinization of groundwater, etc.

Now you might argue with me that the solution to this problem potentially lies with future developments . . . a better antibiotic maybe, perhaps genetically engineering shrimp to be more resistant to disease and pollution, etc, or maybe the solution lies in adopting farming techniques that have been slowly perfected for the last 500 years and are proven to work, where the only interventions that could be made were natural ones and success was determined by how well you could maintain a balanced relationship with your local ecosystem. It is these farming systems and the mindset that they embody that I would like to see the world adopt, improve upon and gravitate towards.

Pinning your hopes for improvement on future developments and technology is totally misguided, especially when the core of the modern industrial agricultural foundation is so rotten. I have nothing against technology, but I'm not going to let the problems, born of brutish and unsophisticated industrial thinking, be overlooked by a corporate apologist futurist mindset. I'm not implying that's how you feel about the issue, but that the stance that many people have. There is an utter lack of holistic thinking in the industrial agricultural world (and everywhere else pretty much) and the direction it is leading us in is potentially frightening.

Last Feb, My wife got a Flu bug and she was out cold on the couch for 7 days. She couldn't eat or drink without violently expelling it from her system from both ends. She lost 15 lbs and when we finaly got her into the hospital, it took 3 bags of saline to rehydrate her.

It took another week to bring her back to being human again, but a total of 4 weeks all together to come back to full strength.

The flu can be bad, even a regular strain.
It sucks but you just have to tough it out.

She ot both the regular flu shot and H1N1 shot a few days ago. (she works in a docter's office), She had a lump on her arm a little bigger than a golf ball.

There's a whole fetish subgenre centered around injecting your scrotum and penis with fluids in order to fill them up. I've mostly heard of people using saline solution, but apparently this guy wanted something more permanent. As I understand it, the people who do this get enough kicks out of it they don't really care that it means they can't have sex. Of course with saline it's a more transient transformation, but it seems to be something people get quite addicted to. Go figure.

Interesting facts about Albatrosses...

- They have an acute sense of smell, which is unusual for birds.

- They drink sea water, and remove the salt via a gland near their eyes that secretes a 5% saline solution.

- Males and females bond over years, eventually for life.

- 19 of the 21 species are threatened

- They have special tendons that allow the birds to lock their shoulders, requiring no muscular effort to keep their wings open.

- Albatrosses have a glide ratio of 23:1

- They are not strong fliers, and their wing shape is poorly suited to flapping flight, but instead for efficient lift while gliding. In calm weather they are forced to rest on the surface until the wind returns .


Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albatross

>> ^TangledThorns:
On a side note the girl describing her experience with an abortion by Tiller was chilling. Using saline that burns the baby to death and then push it out into a toilet... awful.


What did you think they did, put a lollipop under a 1 tonne weight and wait for the featus to come get it Wile E. Coyote style?!?

I don't think anyone would quibble with the fact that abortion is not a pleasant process for anyone involved, particularly the featus.. So it's good that 'bleeding hearts' are actually out there councilling women who are considering abortion so that it's not the first option, it's the last... Rather than shooting doctors, blowing up clinics and making an ass of themselves on television.

Or would you prefer the mother go and get a coathanger and try to scrape the baby out, not only 'terminating it' (let's call a spade a spade, tearing it to pieces), but massively increasing the chances that she will die from either a placental haemorrhage or sepsis? Two deaths for the price of one sounds good to the right wing?

I'm not sure if you're a troll yet, but you definitely don't seem to fit in with the crowd here. Bill didn't PWN anybody, all he did was talk loud and in circles, like he normally does. And, as for "Killing Babies" you're definitely in the wrong place because there's a large base of people on the sift who are Pro-choice.

And you want to talk about changing the subject? How bout at the end, where she calls him out on having people actually listen to the garbage that's been spewed from him and took it to the point of killing people, TWICE, and then all he can say of is "We know where you're coming from, coming up next."



>> ^TangledThorns:
I saw this when it was aired and Bill pwn3d Joan Walsh. She is nothing more than a bleeding heart liberal who kept trying to change the subject. Good for Bill to call her out on doing that and making her admit she supports killing babies.
On a side note the girl describing her experience with an abortion by Tiller was chilling. Using saline that burns the baby to death and then push it out into a toilet... awful.