Butterfly guard, guillotine, rear naked choke... we got gibbon gracie over here!

>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:
You're dumb. That's a technique called a REAR naked choke.
There's no other way to do than from behind.
>> ^Lawdeedaw:
>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:
..huh?
>> ^Lawdeedaw:
If it wasn't from behind I would upvote...ah hell, you didn't put it in equality so that's fine.


She started choking him out when his back was turned. Not what I call fair, even for a woman.



Yeah, and? Still a coward's choke hold so your point it moot.

You're dumb. That's a technique called a REAR naked choke.

There's no other way to do than from behind.

>> ^Lawdeedaw:

>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:
..huh?
>> ^Lawdeedaw:
If it wasn't from behind I would upvote...ah hell, you didn't put it in equality so that's fine.


She started choking him out when his back was turned. Not what I call fair, even for a woman.

At 2:05 Trap Door Spidercat attempts the Rear Naked Choke Hold but fails when the opponent squirms away...

Tags for this video have been changed from 'choke hold, sleeper, out cold, knocked out, mixed martial arts, fighter' to 'rear naked choke, sleeper, mixed martial arts, fighter, cristiane santos' - edited by xxovercastxx

The rear naked choke can be done as a "blood choke", where the arteries on either side of the neck are cut off, or as an "air choke", where you simply can't breathe. The blood choke is quite a bit faster, taking about 4 seconds, whereas the air choke usually takes around 10. Neither is harmful provided you let go when the person passes out, particularly the air choke which is applied here.

My understanding is that the blood choke is banned in UFC because it's "dangerous", but I think it's really banned because it's just too fast.

Maynard takes brazilian ju jitsu. He put that dude in a rear naked choke

"One of those MMA trainers should show him the proper way to lock in that rear naked choke."

Well, that and not to cross his ankles from rear mount when he's that low, and to roll his shoulders in standup, and to cut the corner on the double leg rather than shooting a tackle double, and about a million other things. Then again, if we're being realistic here, the bad guy would probably pass out after 3-5 seconds in the RNC, and then it would be 5 minutes of Donnie Yen uncomfortably trying to look badass while squeezing a limp, unconscious guy's neck.

One of those MMA trainers should show him the proper way to lock in that rear naked choke.

*sigh*.

While it is true that the Gracie family made submission attacks famous by representing Brazilian jiu-jitsu (BJJ) in mixed martial arts (MMA), everything you just posted is - and I almost never say this - completely ignorant of the sport and martial arts as a whole.

Submissions were not brought into "the sport" - and by this, I assume you mean MMA - by the Gracies. The Gracies, as I wrote in my BJJ sift, took the judo/jujitsu taught to them by Mitsuyo Maeda and developed the newaza groundwork into a new system, focused on establishing positional improvement and dominance before the application of submissions. It was this conceptual change from the general judo mindset of throw-and-fall-or-scramble-to-position, rather than the submissions themselves. Judo, for the most part, has all the submission BJJ does, it just generally doesn't train them as much or as well. So really, the submissions were brought into the sport by judo, which was brought into creation by Kano through adaptation of the teachings of jiu-jitsu. If you want to argue about fighters using the submissions, sure Royce Gracie made use of them famously in UFC 1, but the first UFC tournament was set up to ensure no other submission grappling styles, including judo, was entered to make a clearer differentiation of style versus style, among other reasons. When such fighter picking was stopped, submission fighters from many styles sprung up in MMA competition.

If you're not talking about modern MMA, then consider the fact that pankration from Greece in 648 BC was the first Western MMA competition, and chokeholds and joint locks were widely displayed and documented.

Consider that catch wrestling can be traced in nearly every culture, from Lancashire catch-as-catch-can wrestling to the US hook wrestling to the Indian pehlwani.

Or you might even be referencing the infamous gong sau of China, where kung fu masters would challenge each other for the rights to open schools in villages or cities, matching style versus style, starting from millenia ago and continuing to the present day. Of course, dubious as the documentation surrounding those matches were, and as stupid as kwoon-storming is, there have been accounts of Chin na masters defeating other strikers through armbars and rear naked chokes.

As for "ruining the sport", I can only assume you're talking about the present version of MMA, as represented largely by the UFC and Pride FC (which have recently been merged as one organization. The UFC and Pride, as you may know, evolved out of the Vale tudo competitions in Brazil and Japan, which when brought to the US were imitated and televised. Of course, you should also be aware of the fact that vale tudo tournaments were largely organized by Helio Gracie, the original creator of Brazilian jiu-jitsu, and his descendants. The UFC was created largely as the brainchild of Rorion Gracie, Helio's eldest son and BJJ black belt, as well as Art Davies, one of Rorion's student. In fact, according to many inside sources who were present for the UFC's founding, it was created in a large part to showcase BJJ for the US, just as Pride FC was created in a a large part to showcase Rickson Gracie, another one of Helio's sons, versus Nobuhiko Takada, a famous Japanese shoot-wrestler and mixed martial artist who also trained in a form of submission wrestling. So how exactly do you figure that modern MMA, which exists largely because the Gracies wanted to showcase the effectiveness of submission fighting versus pure striking styles, is somehow ruined because it did exactly that?

And finally, you have absolutely no idea about submission grappling. If you think getting a submission hold is a "basic skill" that can beat anybody, and the sport now revolves around using and avoiding those holds, then how do you figure that only one of the five current UFC title holders is a well-known submission specialist, and even HE won his title fight two days ago by knockout? If it's such a get-out-of-jail-free card, why doesn't everybody just use those magical subs? How come sprawl-and-brawl and ground-and-pound are becoming such dominant strategies of fighting in MMA fights? Oh, and what did you mean by "strength, skill, stamina or fighting spirit" having no effect on submission grappling? Superior skill, strength, stamina, and fighting spirit is what submission grappling is all about. The fighter with the greatest combination of all four will win, just as with any other art in MMA. Look at Yuki Nakai, the grappler who continued a fight despite being eye-gouged illegally to the point of complete blindness and yet continued on not only win his fight by submission but also fight AGAIN the SAME night against the most feared grappler in the world at the time, Rickson Gracie. Look at Ronaldo de Souza, aka Jacare, who had his arm broken in a fight but continued to fight and win. Heck, look at Rickson Gracie, who is well-known for having an insane cardio routines involving sandy beaches and mountain running. Or any of the MMA athletes at the top of the sport, who train and spar and weight lift and run and work out for hours on end each day and every day so they can become strong and build up endurance and improve their skills, all thanks to their fighting spirit and determination to be the best.

If you doubt me on any of those facts, just get yourself to a real, honest-to-goodness MMA gym, and tell the first MMA fighter you see that submission holds are ruining the sport. Seriously. I'd like to know what happens.

Do you know why I'm annoyed by your comment, Enzoblue? I'm annoyed because training submission grappling is not fucking easy. It is hard, painful work to train. It is expensive as hell, in terms of money as well as time and effort. I am shit-awful at it, and my only goal each day I step on the mat, which is every damn day, is to suck a little less than the day before, and sometimes, like today, I don't feel like that's happened, and I haven't been able to move my neck in certain directions for days because of a neck crank that got cranked on too hard. And yet tomorrow, I'm going to put on my smelly, sweaty gi, get in my friend's carpool, and go roll around on a mat with large, sweaty men who outweigh me by over 50 pounds on average for several hours, and come back tired and sore and cranky. (Hah, pun, get it? It's a joke because my spinal column isn't functioning properly.) And I'm happy with all of that, from the musty gym smell to the same old jokes my friends make about me being gay that they've made for years, because through my training I know I am acquiring a skillset that is not available or acquired in the general public, and yes, I do take pride in what I do because it is a part of my life and part of who I am, and also there's the fact that my training and dedication can and have helped me to choke fools out who are deserving of it, just as those things have saved the lives of friends and acquaintances who were attacked in ghettos and Iraqi villages. And yet here you come to say that I, along with every other MMA competitor who has devoted far larger amounts of their life to perfecting the art of submission grappling, am ruining the beautiful sport of mixed martial arts, a sport that I am, as well as those competitors far above me, dedicated to as well and one that I do my best to represent well in the public eye. No. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to let you say that, because you're wrong.

Consider this: the UFC and modern MMA changed what "one would actually consider fighting". People used to think those flicky, chambered TKD kicks would hurt, or that they could just avoid a takedown attempt with elbows to the spine, or even in later years, they could just fight out of guard. The sport has evolved, and anybody who has a half a brain can see that a good MMA fighter needs to train to fight out of the three ranges that have been established through the test of the fight, standup, clinch, and ground, as well as be able to strike, grapple, and submit from all three ranges if necessary, as well as defend against an opponent's attempts to do so to oneself. Submission grappling is part of the sport out of necessity, not because it's what people (and by that I mean Westerners) think of when they think about fighting, or because it looks pretty - it's in the sport because it works. The skills and abilities trained in sub grappling allow a more skilled fighter to beat a less skilled opponent, given reasonable size comparisons, just as with every other martial art that has been used with success in MMA. The concept of MMA is the extension of Bruce Lee's philosophy of Jeet Kune Do - take what works, and lose what doesn't. So in reality, sub grappling being used to win fights in MMA is really part of the evolution and development of martial arts, in fact it embodies what MMA and the development of effective martial arts is all about. And if that simple fact offends, then perhaps you don't understand quite as much about MMA as you might like to think you do.

Prior to pepper spray and tasers, guns and choke holds were used in situations when the use of pepper spray and tasers would have been much more helpful. For example, a man with a knife can now be stopped with a taser, while he would previously have been shot. Pepper spray can be used against unarmed assailants. And properly-applied choke holds are useful for subduing assailants without the danger of blunt-force trauma or electrical shock.

Choke holds were resulting in peoples' deaths because LEOs were not being properly trained in the proper application of chokes. There is a huge difference between a properly applied rear naked choke, which cuts off blood supply to the brain by squeezing off the carotid arteries, and a rear forearm choke, which cuts off air supply by compressing the trachea. Blood chokes are effective and can be applied with very little force without the risk of permanent injury or death if they are properly-applied and released shortly after unconsciousness (about 4-10 seconds into the choke). There is a relatively huge margin for brain damage (another 15-20 seconds before it becomes dangerous) with a blood choke. Air chokes can damage the trachea and require a huge amount of force comparatively.

Trained properly, there is pretty much no danger to blood chokes. If you're truly interested, go look up at the mortality rates for chokes being applied in grappling tournaments, like a judo shiai. It's basically 0%, since trained grapplers can easily apply the choke without danger to either them or their opponent.