Jane you ignorant slut…..MY tangent straw men!?! Lol!!! You mean like how many ultrasound techs I’ve known!? Or what my personal hands on experience is….as if one can only have an opinion on abortion or knowledge of the stages of development if they are ultrasound techs. Aaaaaahahahaha. That must be good meth.
Ok, here….again…. Illiterate Fool: you aren’t so blatantly hypocritical that you are both anti choice and anti mandatory vaccination, are you?

No one said it makes one a doctor besides you. Another paper tiger you set up for yourself. It’s not clever, you aren’t “winning”, you need your Ritalin.

My degree is general science, so I’m actually qualified to answer general science questions like this one. What’s your degree in again?

Bob, if you won’t or can’t read, there’s no point repeating myself again….Your question, replete with grammatical errors, was answered multiple times above. Reading comprehension is obviously not a strong suit for you.

In short, my hands on knowledge is decades of science education well beyond biology, necessarily including basic medical education (like topics like this), a continuing curiosity about how things work that keeps me up to date on most mainstream science including medical breakthroughs and quackery like your arguments, and ties to the Stanford medical community because my mother edited all their publications for decades, forwarding me the most interesting advancements they made, often before they were published.

Now, again I ask…what’s your personal experience on this topic? I’m absolutely certain it’s less, there’s no way an 8th grade dropout works in medicine. You have no experience and no education, no understanding, no knowledge at all, just what bubba dun told you down to da boars nest.

It’s what there is at 6 weeks. The whole thing is less than a newt in the egg, no limbs, 1/2 the size of a pea….the heart isn’t formed at all. Get someone to read for you, watch a film, this isn’t hard info to find if you remove your head from your anus. Look at real medical sites, not anti abortion propaganda sites, they lie, exaggerate, and obfuscate.

Pseudo science quackery.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/real-climate-science/

OMG...I had no idea.
I went to one for a while, specifically for back pain and nothing else. It didn't even help with that. I had no idea about the other quackery or the pseudo religious nature of the craft.
Reading how they operate, they sound something like Scientology, some guy came up with an insane idea to make money, and convinced a huge group to follow along and defend the insanity zealously, including sueing detractors or investigators for libel.

Just wow.

See also:

Pseudoscience
Quackery

Beyond this being hokum in the vein of snake oil, are you affiliated with the company putting these videos up?

Isn't it far more truthful to say that the reason lies are allowed to fester like this is because we have a media that cares more about ad revenue and making everything a controversy even when it isn't.

That's the only reason lies have a platform to influence people from. Sure there will always be some quack website spouting BS, but it would be far easier to dismiss as quackery if the media didn't give them a voice and legitimacy.

So, this is a major misconception by the public about where the money actually goes when drugs are developed. Read the link you have there, but with a more realistic eye about where the money is going. Drugs are SUPER expensive, but only because they're super expensive to discover. 'Drug discovery' is a tremendously difficult thing, to the point where it is the wetdream of a professional drug discoverer in the pharma world to discover 1 drug in their 30+ year career. During that time, the team of pharma researchers all have to be paid for their PhD level of expertise, and the human cost in developed countries is quite expensive! If there are 1000 people in one pharma company, and each person makes ~70+ thousand, and benefits cost another 100+ thousand per person each year, then the human cost alone in that rough exercise accounts for 170 million yearly for just 1000 people, and can touch the billion dollar figure per year for very large companies. That is where the money is going in that 1.3 billion dollar figure.

The major problem lies in developing a substance that actually does something, and you know exactly what that something is, including all side effects. To get a statistically valid clinical trial is actually a rather hard thing to do; a poorly designed clinical trial can prove whatever you want it to. Considering your St. John's wort example, the most costly 'drug discovery' component is already finished, it would just need to go through clinical trials as a drug for antidepression. The body of evidence in place may already serve for early phase clinical trials, and it may just need to go through a couple of more trials to prove its efficacy (and determine side effects). It would cost some money, but it would NOT be so prohibitively expensive as starting from complete scratch.

Considering this, the idea that it's 'unfair' to make the supplements world actually prove their product does what it is promised to do (or at the very least, not be harmful) is a bit odd. Quackery is illegal for moral reasons, and hard to argue that what the supplements world is doing is not quackery; particularly with the Dr. Oz zeal, false promises are being sold millions of bottles at a time. It is in the public's interest to get this stuff tested and approved!

I won't argue that Chiro makes your joints feel better, Cracking my knuckles makes my knuckles feel better too... but it doesn't make them better. It doesn't "heal" anything, and that is alternative medicine's "Big Issue" with "Allopathic" medicine. You will ALWAYS, 100% guaranteed, get better care from a Physical Therapist, as they're there to ensure your body gets strong enough to heal itself. They can handle "acute adjustments" as well, but they prefer the holistic solution. The best part is, they have a proper understanding of the body, instead of all of the quackery mumbo-jumbo that Chiropractic Practitioners are taught (note: not all believe it, but they aren't taught anything else).

If you want to boil down how vaccines work into three words, sure, you might pick those three... but if you pick four, you'd get a very different phrase: "learn from dead things". But the main difference between vaccines and homeopathy is that we have an excellent understanding of what and why vaccines work, while homeopathy has never been validated by an impartial study. Sure, the premise started the same, but then doctors and scientists actually put work into verifying and validating how vaccines work. They made up new and interesting phrases to describe what was going on, just like homeopathy and it's "water memory", but unlike homeopaths, they reproduced their findings in labs across the country before they started selling it.

Homeopathy and Proper Medicine are as similar as me and the guy that wins a marathon. We both started the race... Sure, I was distracted after a block because I realized I could take a cab to the nearest restaurant and have a nice dinner and a beer, then I watched some TV, and took a cab back to the finish line and crossed it a couple hours later... But hey, we're both the same thing because we started at the same place, right?

The garbage man? I think you mean sanitation, specifically as it relates to bodily wasted, which has been around for over 5000 years. Of course, there have been many advances over the years, and it was not taken seriously in most of Europe until the industrial revolution. But it's certainly true... this technology that has been developing for 5000 years has had more of an effect on human health in cities than anything Medical Science has done.

Of course, it wasn't until we had a good understanding of biological vectors of diseases (research done by "Natural Philosophers", from which sprung all of modern science) that we understood just how important sanitation is, and started real improvements.


TLDR:

Chiropractic Care: May make you feel better, but at it's very best is the very least of what a PT can do.

Homeopathy: Complete and utter quackery, bearing only the most vague and abstract connection to real science.

@hatsix
sure, Chiro is western as much as osteopathy is, but in the general scheme of things, somatic practitioners in the west are considered "alternative" health care. Chiro is good for acute subluxations. Poor for chronic. Most acute subluxations are however a result of a chronic misalignment that has suddenly become acute.

as for, homeopathy. quackery perhaps, but it also operates under the same exact same premise as vaccinations: "like cures like".

PT's operate under a principle of "strong vs. weak" muscles in assessing structure and prescribing treatment. Their general bent is to "strengthen" the weak muscles in order to stabilize the problematic joint. The problem with PT and any other therapy that is primarily concerned with relative length in contractile tissue (muscle and fascia), is that contractile tissue is a "reactive" system in the body rather than control. The control lies within the neurology. PT has thus been shown to be of limited effectiveness.

and, btw, the garbageman has done more for stopping the spread of disease than the doctor.

Just to be clear, Chiropractic care is VERY MUCH "Western" medicine. It is a bit over 100 years old, but just as much pseudo-science as the grand-daddy of quackery, Homeopathy.

There are many practitioners that mix it with non-quackery, like Physical Therapy and Massage Therapy. There are some that mix it with traditional "Eastern" medicine, like acupuncture and herbal medicines. But that doesn't reduce it's quackery.

And certainly, there are many questionable practices in non-alternative medicine, especially with behaviorally-difficult children. But it isn't their fault that there is medication that lessens the severity of these outbursts. Don't blame the doctors for giving parents what they ask (and pay) for. Blame the parents who are looking for a quick fix, rather than spending time with their kids to fix the real issues. These are cultural issues, not specifically issues with the medical establishment, the same as obesity and diabetes.

The true way to tell if someone really understands alternative medicine's issues with mainstream medicine is to bring up Chiropractic care. If they can fault mainstream medicine for treating the symptoms and not the core issue, and they feel like adjusting alignment of bones is better than a PT working to heal your body so it can handle it's own alignment, they're really just being contrarian and anti-authoritarian, Not actually being logical with their choices.

are you an md? if you are, the number of patients you see, the treatments you can provide, and what drugs you deal are dictated by insurance and pharmaceutical companies, and you have no choice but to comply while you pay off your 200k in loans.
Do you know what iatrogenic death means, or what the rate of iatrogenic death is? check it out....
There is plenty of quackery in the western md world.

as for Chiropractic, at least they are attempting to address the most glaring hole in western medicine: the rather obvious relationship between the structure of the body and the function of the body.

And when it comes to somatic/structural issues - which make up over 50% of hospital visits, and of which the western world treats with drugs or surgery, the chiro's at least have some of the theory correct, it's just their methodology that is fucked.

But, as for fundamental quackery, let's look at how the western world treats kids. First, hook them on sugar, then call them ADHD and give them methamphetamine salt (Adderol), followed by Ambien cause they can't sleep, followed by Prozac caused they are depressed cause they can't sleep, ...all the while they are raiding mom's medicine cabinet for the oxycontin or whatever opiate derivative they can find.
yeah, it's a JOKE. But we were trained to bow to authority, call the doctor god and worship the white coat and piece of paper on the wall.

I mean, for fuck's sake, listen to the side effect list of any major drug out there. really? that's "health care". bullshit.

Western md's shine in trauma, which was learned from our spirited attempts to have a continual state of warfare. for that they are top-notch. Anti-biotics were a huge deal, but all they've learned to do since the advent of penicillin is to make analogue after analogue, and they've stuffed so many people full of anti-biotics for just about every malady, that we are becoming genetically resistant to them as a species.
health care. yup.
how many of you out there can even afford this type of "health care"?
but please, do some research and go on for hours.

@criticalthud - Pretty much completely eradicating smallpox and polio, rabies is no longer a death sentence, there has been a 55% reduction in cardiovascular disease fatalities since the fifties, there is a 90% childhood leukemia survival rate, transplants, bacterial infections are generally no longer a big deal...

This is just what comes to me off the top of my head, with research I could go on for hours.

Of course there are flaws and in some cases corruption in western medicine just as you would expect with any such massively complex and lucrative human endeavor, but trying to equate it with the blatant quackery of "alternative medicine" only displays your intentional ignorance of reality and makes you the butt of any joke.

I have no patience for this kind of mindless drivel. Somehow, it has become trendy to ignore the benefits of modern medicine. Honestly, I don't care if you die needlessly of cancer because you waited too long to see some western doctors, but when scum like you try to contribute to the general atmosphere of rampant unfounded mistrust of science based techniques that have an astoundingly successful track record, then you are trying to spread your inane poison and I have to reprimand your idiocy.




http://www.oxfordscholarship.com/view/10.1093/acprof:oso/9780195150698.001.0001/acprof-9780195150698-chapter-18

http://www.cancer.org/cancer/news/news/childhood-leukemia-survival-rates-improve-significantly

Actually, you're not too far off the mark


Lol - thanks for linking that. The video is still crazy, but its existence makes sense now.

I'm slightly curious now as to why he'd leave Scientology (it seems like a pretty good fit), but not curious enough to do any real work and find out. Oddly enough, the first link I found when Googling why he left was titled: "Scientology, anti-psychiatry quackery, and Mike Adams: It all becomes clear now".

Yes, it does.

Here's some more articles from naturalnews.com covering the potential dangers of vaccines. The articles are sourced. I used Naturalnews because it's a website I personally trust and one that I read on a regular basis.

Re: infants
The hepatitis B vaccine is linked to infant death, multiple sclerosis and autoimmune disorders
New study: Nations requiring the most vaccines tend to have the worst infant mortality rates
More than 2,000 vaccinated babies died: The cost of doing business
Abortion stillbirth events from Gardasil far exceed all other vaccines
Are MMR vaccines dangerous for children? Dr Suzanne Humphries urges parents to get informed
Flu vaccine causing infant seizures; FDA to investigate
Babies given pneumococcal vaccination risk infection with serious drug resistant respiratory disease

Re: fraud
CDC vaccine scientist who downplayed links to autism indicted by DOJ in alleged fraud scheme
Dr. Jonas Salk, inventor of polio vaccine, exposed as criminal-minded scientist who conducted illicit medical experiments on mental patients
Medical 'experts' pushing HPV vaccines told what not to say about them, including their death toll
The FDA is a clearing house for Food and Drug Corruption
Hidden government papers expose lies about measles vaccines for infants
WHO list reveals flu advisors with financial ties to pharma, vaccine manufacturers
Flu Vaccines, pharma fraud, quack science, the CDC and WHO -- all exposed by Richard Gale and Gary Null
WHO scandal exposed: Advisors received kickbacks from H1N1 vaccine manufacturers
Central Figure in CDC Vaccine Safety Studies Investigated for Fraud
Vaccination Quackery Appears in Plain Sight

Re: autism
Sixth study in recent months links mercury in flu shots to brain damage, autism
Multiple studies link autism to mercury, which is still present in most flu vaccines
Government vaccine compensation payouts prove autism link
Latest research links autism to vaccines
Thimerosal-free childhood vaccines still suspect in autism

Re: other
Vaccines lower immunity
Swine flu vaccine linked to 900 percent increased risk of developing narcolepsy
Government Admits Link between H1N1 Vaccine and Deadly Nerve Disease
Japan halts vaccines from Pfizer, Sanofi after deaths of four children
Influenza vaccine sends children into convulsions
Australia bans flu vaccines in children after vomiting, fevers, seizures
Finland suspends H1N1 vaccines after children suffer narcolepsy from vaccinations
Flu vaccine push already underway; first batch causes seizures in children
Pig virus contaminates rotavirus vaccines, but FDA says no problem
India halts HPV vaccine trial after six girls die, US does nothing in response to 67 deaths and counting
Seasonal flu vaccines increase risk of pandemic H1N1 flu, stunned scientists discover

>> ^westy:

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:
So, before humans, there were dinosaurs. Is it possible that there were periods of life before that - perhaps intelligent life - whose evidence has been erased by asteroids, weather and time?

That's deffinatly possible you would have thought there would be some evidence left maby its just in a place we have yet to look at , Atlantis , or underground .
but until there is evidence found then its like ghosts or yeties its just speculation and imagination.
Im not very knowlageable on the subject but due to the amount of earth thats populated by people and the different methods for testing things and all the looking around we have done ( geographical maps and servays ) if an inteligent or undustreal race of people existed before we probably would have found evidence for it by now , so that makes it less likely that there was another race unless they cleaned up very well.


Ever read, "Fingerprints of the Gods"? Fascinating book. It can easily be dismissed as quackery but he builds a solid enough case that it can pique a person's interest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fingerprints_of_the_Gods

I would recommend it to anyone looking for something entertaining to read.

I'm not surprised. Most people don't really get how science is done and almost no one wants other people making decisions for them--in regards to what is true or not true, real or not real. I'm all for people making up their own minds, but at some point you have to admit that you can't know everything about everything; at that point, you are forced to allow an expert to at least narrow down the field of options for you. The internet has both helped (in allowing open access to information) and hurt (in allowing open access to quackery) this process.

Anyway, the study was more proving that argumentum ad populum is alive and thriving.