I'm not so sure it's human nature to always proselytize, regardless of the situation. Certainly there are some people who do it (I'm guilty of it for sure), but I think they're the exception and not the rule.

I also don't think it makes someone a zealot if they say "I disagree with your utopian zealotry because what you promise is impossible, and what you've done in pursuit of it has caused serious harm."

That seems like skepticism to me, not dogmatic belief.
>> ^soulmonarch:

Of course. And is it not in the nature of man to push those lofty ideals on everyone else, regardless of whether they are relevant to the discussion?
My intention was only to point out that both sides equally play the zealot, interjecting their belief that all evils of the world are caused by/fixed by lassiez faire economics. Arm-chair idealists, if you will.

Actually I'm a human being with a valid opinion based on my personal beliefs. Like you, I would assume. Just because you don't like that opinion, and strongly disagree with it because you're a secular humanist, doesn't make me a troll. Thanks for the lovely introduction, though.

>> ^messenger:
Don't feed the troll.
Shinyblurry's a bible literalist proselytizer and the Sift his new pulpit, if you haven't met him yet.>> ^shinyblurry:
Abortion is murder. I actually heard the word "convenience" used in this video, that women are just clamouring so badly to kill their unborn children and actually feel inconvenienced by the shutdown. What a wretched, sickening society we live in.
Life is a gift from God. Your body doesn't belong to you, it belongs to Him. If people obeyed God rather than their mindless lusts they wouldn't have this problem in the first place. It doesn't matter what trimester the baby is in, it is a life and it is to be nurtured and protected.

Don't feed the troll.

Shinyblurry's a bible literalist proselytizer and the Sift his new pulpit, if you haven't met him yet.>> ^shinyblurry:

Abortion is murder. I actually heard the word "convenience" used in this video, that women are just clamouring so badly to kill their unborn children and actually feel inconvenienced by the shutdown. What a wretched, sickening society we live in.
Life is a gift from God. Your body doesn't belong to you, it belongs to Him. If people obeyed God rather than their mindless lusts they wouldn't have this problem in the first place. It doesn't matter what trimester the baby is in, it is a life and it is to be nurtured and protected.

Dear all,

Shinyblurry is either a staggeringly misinformed Christian proselytizer, or a troll. I think the latter, but the jury's still out. Either way, you're not having the conversation you think you're having.

>> ^bareboards2:

Or stay and comment on kitty videos. There are no atheists in Kitty videos.

>> ^Boise_Lib:
shinyblurry is right this place is full of atheists. I think sb should run away and find a safe place for his/her warped religious ranting.
Go Away


I guess I have started to sound quite the jerk when it comes to sb's obsession.

No, I wouldn't like a place that capriciously banned people for unpopular thought.
And, I know that voicing my objections will not change sb's compulsion to proselytize.
So, I guess a little introspection is needed on my part.
Thanks bb2, and a good day to all.

Everything I believe is in the bible, there is nothing extra beyond that. I appreciate your warning. I will take it into consideration. It is possible I developed an attitude problem from my interactions here. I tend to respond to the prevailing social dynamic, which in this case is blatant hostility. It's not as if I don't see what's going on, and some things need to be said regardless of perceived appropriateness. However, I will endevour to be more congenial..thank you for your magnanamousness.

>> ^SDGundamX:
@<A rel="nofollow" class=profilelink title="member since January 21st, 2011" href="http://videosift.com/member/shinyblurry">shinyblurry
I've re-read my post. I can find absolutely no condescension in it. I honestly hope you live a better life because of your beliefs and that those beliefs inspire you to help people in meaningful ways.
My theology is Christian, I didn't just come up with it myself.
I have attended all sorts of churches--Catholic, Protestant, Russian Orthodox, Mormon, Armenian, Unitarian and so forth. The theology you have described here is quite clearly different from what those churches preach. Also, did you not claim in a previous post that much of what your understanding of Christianity has come through revelation from God? That would seem to clearly contradict your own statement above.
I have read many of your comments and am genuinely concerned that you don't realize the tone you are taking. You don't seem to be trying to engaging with other people as fellow human beings. Basically, you're talking at them, not to them. I offered you advice in the hope that you could craft your message in a way such that people would actually stop long enough to listen to what you have to say and not miss it entirely because they were too focused on how you phrased it. If it's any consolation, I've given the exact same advice I gave to you to self-proclaimed militant atheists on the Sift who seem to revel in mocking those with religious beliefs, as if their atheism somehow made them better people.
I suspect, though, you have not come here to listen to what other people have to say... you've come here to preach. You are welcome to do so. But you really shouldn't be too surprised if people choose to ignore you. After all, you are for all practical purposes ignoring them as well.
Good luck with the proselytizing (I mean that sincerely, not sarcastically).
Peace.

@shinyblurry

I've re-read my post. I can find absolutely no condescension in it. I honestly hope you live a better life because of your beliefs and that those beliefs inspire you to help people in meaningful ways.

My theology is Christian, I didn't just come up with it myself.

I have attended all sorts of churches--Catholic, Protestant, Russian Orthodox, Mormon, Armenian, Unitarian and so forth. The theology you have described here is quite clearly different from what those churches preach. Also, did you not claim in a previous post that much of what your understanding of Christianity has come through revelation from God? That would seem to clearly contradict your own statement above.

I have read many of your comments and am genuinely concerned that you don't realize the tone you are taking. You don't seem to be trying to engaging with other people as fellow human beings. Basically, you're talking at them, not to them. I offered you advice in the hope that you could craft your message in a way such that people would actually stop long enough to listen to what you have to say and not miss it entirely because they were too focused on how you phrased it. If it's any consolation, I've given the exact same advice I gave to you to self-proclaimed militant atheists on the Sift who seem to revel in mocking those with religious beliefs, as if their atheism somehow made them better people.

I suspect, though, you have not come here to listen to what other people have to say... you've come here to preach. You are welcome to do so. But you really shouldn't be too surprised if people choose to ignore you. After all, you are for all practical purposes ignoring them as well.

Good luck with the proselytizing (I mean that sincerely, not sarcastically).

Peace.

Before 1978, black men couldn't be priests in the church. Their black skin was the "mark of Cain" and they were all direct descendents of Abel's killer. (Every male is a priest in the church.)

The Civil Rights movement in the 60's led to federal legislation. The Mormon Church was being threatened with... losing their tax exemption maybe? I'm unclear.

They were also having trouble getting black people to join and their proselytizing efforts in Africa weren't going so well, as you can imagine.

So the President of the Church got a message from God in 1978 that God has now forgiven Cain's descendents and they can now be priests.

Personally, I think this is behind why the Mormon Church pushes back so hard on gay rights. They are afraid the government will step in and punish them for anti-gay stances. So they want to get it in the law to protect themselves.

I may have some of the details wrong -- this is the essence of it.


>> ^Sagemind:

in 1978, God changed his mind about black people... (??)
Comedy Religion

I doubt it..want to have a bible-off? In my mind, if you truly understood the Word you never would have abandoned Him. Also, that no one can comprehend the bible without the Spirit.

I am not so thin skinned, btw..but I am conscious of having Gods name dragged through the mud..

how about we start over and see where the thread takes us?

>> ^longde:
hehe. An atheist quoting the bible is a bit like a prisoner suing the victim of his crime.
I'm not an atheist, but I certainly don't believe in Christiantiy, and I got here from being a devout christian from the cradle to high school. I dare say I know the bible better than you do, having studied it at length and daily for all those years.
It just strikes me as strange that you are put off at scorn from nonbelievers. At least you are honest, though. I'm not saying I was never wary of being made fun of when I proselytized people. But back then, it was face-to-face; while today you have an anonymous handle and avatar to hide behind.

hehe. An atheist quoting the bible is a bit like a prisoner suing the victim of his crime.

I'm not an atheist, but I certainly don't believe in Christiantiy, and I got here from being a devout christian from the cradle to high school. I dare say I know the bible better than you do, having studied it at length and daily for all those years.

It just strikes me as strange that you are put off at scorn from nonbelievers. At least you are honest, though. I'm not saying I was never wary of being made fun of when I proselytized people. But back then, it was face-to-face; while today you have an anonymous handle and avatar to hide behind.

ok.
i have stated this previously and in multiple posts.
lets define "god" for a moment.
and lets accomplish this without any religious influence or overtures...none.
because lets be honest,religion acts like it has the secret key to the hidden doorway.
which i find not only repulsive but dishonest.

lets see if we can agree on a few things.i shall use the monotheistic religions as example because using all 4500 would be..tedious:
1.god implies masculine.this is obviously a falsehood.why would god need sexual organs?
2.we are all made in gods image.again a falsehood.having never seen god how can we know?
3.the bible/q'ran is the written word of god.(i wont include the torah because jews do not make that pronouncement).again this is false,some basic research will reveal this statement to be an utter fallacy.unless of course you are a fundamentalist,and in that case..carry on with your wars of attrition /looking at you fundmantalist christians and muslims).
4.god loves you.unless you break these rules and in that case he has built a special place for you to burn for eternity (varying degrees of understanding here,even fundamentalists struggle with this obvious hypocrisy).conclusion=bullshit.


ok.i am going to stop because i could do this all day.
my basic point is that it is RELIGION that makes the claim that it is THEY who hold the keys to the gate.that only through THEIR understanding could any of lowly humans ever think to have salvation.
religion is man-made with tangible texts,doctrine and dogma and in being so is subject to criticism.as it SHOULD be.
these institutions define god and then attempt to compel through fear and..well..fear..to get people to comply.
in my opinion it is these very institutions which hinder the growth and development of us all as a species.
fundamentalism is the stunting of the spirit and the stagnation of the mind.
none of what i am saying here takes away from the poetry,literature and wisdom from the bible..it is RELIGION which perpetrates that crime.

everybody still with me?
am i making sense?
ok..now lets define god and lets do it in a way that religion will never do because it will make those institutions irrelevant.
(which ironically was the EXACT thing jesus was attempting to do..but i digress)
lets consider "god" an entity with immense consciousness.
let us for a moment imagine this consciousness giving birth to the universe from itself.
what is the first thing to come in to existence besides energy?
time.
and when that happened what else became evident?
everything became relative due to this added dimension.
let that sink in a bit because it has huge implications.
ok..
now if we continue on this thread of thought.this would mean that the universe is literally god.
every molecule.
every atom.
god.
and what if this creator put out only one simple edict for his construct?
create.
thats all.he sets the rules and puts only one line of code=create.
and everything his creations creates is part of him and he..it.
good..evil..arbitrary terms used to relate subjective realities focused from a singular perspective.
the creator does not notice them because all of it is the same to the creator.
WE make those very human definitions.
lets imagine for a second that the universe has a consciousness.one that we may be aware or unaware of,but we know we are an individual.
we have consciousness.
we do NOT know if a plant has a consciousness that we can measure but we may some day.
now if we are a part of this incredible creation called the universe and we have consciousness.this means we are aware of not only ourselves but the universe around us.
this means we experience creation on a daily basis.manifesting in so many dynamic ways:love,loss,anger,violence,wonder,imagination,making love,cheeseburgers with a cold beer etc etc
and in that light would not the creator experience its own creation subjectively through our experiencing his creation?

now this is not a new idea,in fact it is quite old but it does have the quality of not needing any religion,nor doctrine or dogma.
why not?
because in essence YOU are god and god is YOU.
if i had postulated something like this as early as 100 yrs ago i would be burned at the stake.
why? religion.
but this is the basic definition i use when i use the term "god".
it is also the reason why i have no urge to preach or proselytize.
the only thing i try to do is recognize that i do not hold the key nor the answers but i seek them and that is my path.
yours is your own and the only thing i can do is recognize that you are a spiritual being (whether you believe that or not) and respect your choices on how you wish to live.
because..in the end..they are YOUR choices.

now please understand i share this with you not to convince or to invite ridicule but rather to offer a different definition.
to me life is amazing in the very simple act of breathing.
of loving..
and arguing..ah..many thanks for those in my life for the glorious arguments.
this life is precious if only for those simple things.
is there an afterlife?
i believe so,what it looks like i have no idea but i know it wont be THIS life.
so cherish those who you care about because this is one helluva ride,and i am glad you all are here to enjoy it with me.

for those of you still here.
thanks for coming to the show!
dont forget to tip your bartenders and waitresses!
and thank YOU BRM for taking the time to discuss things of this nature with me.

Usually I would upvote for good discussions, even if i hate the video. This certainly is a long discussion, but I don't think it is a quality discussion, or one which I have drawn any new insights from.

I used to be a devout christian, so I have a soft spot for religious people on the sift. I also have a soft spot for new sifters. But, I think there is a little too much proselytizing, victimology and whining from shiny in this thread, and that put me over the edge into a downvote.

On another note, I was first alarmed when i saw peggedbea's post accusing shiny of a sexist comment. I was ready to flame away at shiny. But after looking at shiny's original comment, I thought it was obvious he was aluding to her avatar.

I like to think this guy is genuinely proselytizing, rather than parodying religion.

What this article fails to show is that this is a Shia Muslim school. People who equate what's happening in Egypt to this are sadly mistaken. Egypt Muslims are Sunni, and there is not a single Sunni nation that is ruled by a religious body today. By definition, Sunnis have a secular government - that's the reason why Muslims/Moors occupied Spain for 700 years and yet didn't bother converting anyone there as proselytism was and still is illegal. I think people should start mentioning whether they are looking at Shia or Sunni Islam when they make their statements for those two sects are at polar opposites and do not sympathize with each other (See Iraq-Iran war).

This guy has so much spite for religion he is incapable of stopping and appreciating the humanity of its practitioners.

These people genuinely believe that a vast majority of the world's population is damned to eternal flame, torment, gnashing of teeth and so on. This horrific notion drives many to proselytize with the intention of saving others from this fate.

Regardless of how misguided, delusional and perhaps benignly rude these people are in their actions, I nonetheless salute them as humans who care enough about others to try and spare neighbors and strangers alike from this purportedly horrible fate.

If I believed such things, I would hope that I would react in a similar way.