--------------------- I saw this on the interweb and laughed and laughed.

I would hope shineyblurry is NOT a creationist with his strong religious beliefs, but if so it's dedicated to him.

*language*insults*dissing religion*wall of text* (if these things offend DO NOT READ)

Dear Creationists,
You are stupid.
Genuinely stupid.
By every conceivable metric that we can assess intelligence, intellect, mental ability, reasoning and sense. Even the very ability to string words together in coherent ways. You fail at this. You are stupid. There is no way of getting out of this accusation; it is as close to an absolute, proven fact, that a scientific assessment can get.

Not ignorant. No, that’s something else. Ignorance is merely the lack of knowledge. That’s fine. I cannot blame someone for merely not knowing, or not being exposed to information. You don’t get a choice in ignorance and merely not knowing. For a start, you’re born ignorant of everything in the entire world. New born babies don’t even know what things in the world are part of their own bodies and what things aren’t – they really do have to learn this for themselves. So, no, you’re not just ignorant because if you were, I wouldn’t be here writing this.

No, this is something fucking different, far fucking worse. What you stand not only accused of, but proven guilty of, shits and pisses all over the innocence of ignorance and goes into dark territory of deceit and lies. This is wilful ignorance. This is prideful ignorance. You take your ignorance and wave it around at every opportunity to say “hey, look at me, I’m so fucking stupid” and expect people to respect you for it. Do I want to blame you for it? When your elders, and priests, and preachers, and the unqualified crank pseudo-scientific quasi-philosophers they get to back them up, have all conspired to brainwash you into thinking this is a good thing? Yes, I fucking do. You have made a choice to stay ignorant, and be happy with it. You’re a fucking idiot, and you damn well know it. You know it, and you Just. Don’t. Fucking. Care.

Why do I bother with you? Just why? Why do I drag myself down to that sort of level?
Let’s look at some clear facts here.
I have a fucking masters degree. I took four years out of my life learning quantum mechaincs, management, nuclear physics, organic, inorganic, analytical, green, environmental, atmospheric chemistry, mathematics, and a fuck-ton of life skills and problem solving skills possessed by a tiny fraction of people.

I can write, I can draw, I can play and compose music, and I can program a computer to do a little jig. Importantly, I know the difference between “there”, “their” and “they’re” – and fuck knows that’s a rare skill. I’m even nice on occasion and, if I try, even likeable. I’m just going to blow a trumpet and say I have most talents bar singing (sigh).

I wrote a whopping four-hundred-fucking-page book to get a doctorate. It’s sat there on a table right now, all bound and shiny with gold letters and my name on it, looking thick enough to bludgeon someone to death with. To get that far, I was locked in a room with two experts who read it and who spent nearly three hours ripping it to shreds and finding any excuse they could not to give the final award to me. At the end of it all, half a dozen people with the same level of qualification and beyond have all conspired to say “you’re good enough to be one of us”. I fucking starved. I fucking wrote ’til I dropped. I stayed up late and got up early. All to get that. And as blasé and modest as I try to come across in public, I wouldn’t have done any of that if I didn’t think it was all worth it.

And I’ve taught students. People even better than me, who have fought their way through the same shit and more, have said I’m good enough to be their proxy or their replacement to teach the next generation. I’m actively passing on knowledge, whether established or cutting edge, to students who one day will grow up to be the next me. Some days I hate those little shits, but to be fair to them, one day a good chunk of them will also be locked in that room with a pair of experts, shitting themselves and wanting to all go away. They will come out of it alive, as One Of Us, and they will fucking well deserve every bit of it. I am a cog in that machine, and damn well proud of it.

In short, I’m smart. I’m intelligent. I’m rational. I’m reasonable. I’m brainy as fuck. By every conceivable metric, I am at the top of the grey matter tree. If I believed in the absoluteness of the IQ test, I’d be bragging my ass off about being in the 98th percentile (I dunno, actually, last time I took one I was 15).
That’s me.

You, however, as someone who thinks the planet magically poofed into existence 6,000 years ago, you’re at the bottom of that tree. I’m may well be in the 98th percentile, but you, you dumb fuck, wouldn’t even know what “percentile” means without Google – which, by the way, has been built by the kind of people who know what “percentile” means without using Google. Because they had to have some way of knowing what it meant before they fucking built the thing – since you, you dumbfuck imbecile, need every little fucking thing explained to you in small words that don’t tax your brain too hard.

You, because you manage to be mentally retarded in such a way that it’s actually an offence to those with genuine learning difficulties, couldn’t fucking understand the mere basics of anything I could possibly teach you about anything. About chemistry, biology or physics. Even the fucking basics of logic, or language, or how to frame an argument, or what evidence is, or why it’s important, or how science even works. Hell, the hurdles I would have to leap just to get you people to the point of discussing actual evolutionary biology or actual geology or actual radiometric dating would require me to type thousands of words, and spend months of my life. And it wouldn’t be worth it because you would ignore it. You wouldn’t even address the basics. I could try to exemplify every nuance, meaning and deconstruction of, say, the phrase “evolution is a religion”, and you’d zone out as soon as I broke into polysyllabic words and then, just as a little bit of drool came out, you’d say “but evolution is just a religion”.

It’s all just fucking voodoo shit to you, something you’re actively scared of and don’t want to understand. You’ve rendered yourself physically incapable of understanding and basic comprehension and so I find myself almost constantly, every time I see one of you dumb shits opening your mouths, struggling not to outright scream from the rooftops. Every single word in this extensive rant has been compressed in my head into a single thought and that thought fires in my brain every time I see you people speak or type or even making a motion to open your mouths or put fingers to a keyboard.

You sit and worship people like Kent Hovind, whose entire thesis wouldn’t even count as a winning entry in NaNoWriMo (which requires 50,000 words in a month) and has a Flesch reading age of a pre-teen (by contrast, the Flesch-Kincade reading complexity for my own thesis goes to the part of the scale where “reading age” stops being a meaningful concept, and a single chapter is larger than Kent Hovind’s entire derp-fest, and there’s fucking diagrams to boot). Or you shout “amen” after every little tiny piece of faeces that oozes out of the mouth of Ray Comfort – a man, lest we forget, who thinks the word “bibliophile” is a fucking insult derived from “paedophile”. These aren’t just people amongst your ranks, these are your fucking experts.

You repeat mantras that have been refuted countless times. Even if you ever get around to addressing one of these refutations all you can ever come up with is restating the point again or whining about some other pathetic and irrelevant detail. I’m not even going to bother with examples here. I’m breaking plenty of my usual rules about dealing with you stupid-as-fuck individuals already, so I’m going to break another and tell you to do your own simple cursory fucking research on this. Not that you’d manage that, as anything you ever cite must always come from an approved source like “CreationWiki” – a site, may I add, that actively makes a point, and a proud point at that, of stifling any potential disagreement. Do you see that on skeptic or “evolutionist” websites? No. You don’t. You want to know why? Because we want the world to see the best you dumb-fucktarded intellectual rejects have come up with, in all their mundanely pathetic glory, just so everyone can see how fucking terrible each and every one of your so-called arguments are. Sometimes, we don’t even bother responding, we just quote you verbatim (that means “unaltered” (which means “we didn’t change it” (ooh, look, nested parentheses (that means “brackets”) I bet that’s blown your tiny fucking mind))) because even casual scrutiny makes your points look terrible, and frankly, a full refutation just isn’t worth the fucking effort. Not because we can’t, but because – as I said above – I’d practically have to teach you the English Fucking Language from scratch to point out the flaws.

You, who thinks a fucking single man and rib-clone woman and their two sons populated the entire earth without any freaking-frakking-fucking incest occurring because “hey, don’t ask awkward questions”, hold in high regard people who aren’t even worthy of pissing in the academic shadow of people like me. So where does that place you in that pecking order? You intentionally refuse to understand simple things; like how irrelevant evolution by natural selection is to abiogenesis; like the fact that “macro” and “micro” evolution are just things you made up (at least in the way you morons use those terms); or like how natural selection has nothing at all to do with eugenics. It’s all OH-YOUR-FUCKING-GOD-IT’S-HITLER all the fucking time. I mean, seriously, you intentionally avoid learning. You avoid understanding. You actively train yourself to not to understand and you revel in all this. You memorise your silly little one-sentence replies that mean sweet fuck all, and by some magic expect educated people like me to bow down to your right of free expression; well here’s my “free expression” in response you fucking lunatic, you’ve damn well driven me to it over the years. You have no intellectual rights to this “debate” at all because you cannot even speak the language it requires. Even worse, you seem to think this actually qualifies you more. It doesn’t. It never will. Get with the fucking programme already; if you cannot comprehend basic facts, you cannot expect to be invited to the debating table as an academic equal. You’re not my academic equal. In terms of intelligence and knowledge you’re fucking scum rotting at the bottom of a dark and forgotten barrel while I’m basking in the sun. I would love, genuinely love, to help raise you up to being on my level. I would love it. But you wouldn’t listen. I would tell you to read X, Y and Z. Hell, I’d even write my own summary of X, Y and Z, but you wouldn’t listen or care. It would fall on intentionally deaf ears.

You know what the worst thing is? Some creationist out there, probably you because it’s being addressed to you, is probably going to find this rant and say “oh look at the little evolutionist, running out of points and resorting to insults”. Well fuck off. You think this is my attempt to prove you wrong? No. This is my attempt to insult you. This is my attempt to degrade and belittle you, your beliefs and your reasons all in one; because they’ve already been shown to be wrong. I don’t need to add to that. If you want to complain that I’ve ran out of legitimate responses by writing this, then that just proves every single point that I’m making in this profanity ridden rant; that you don’t fucking listen, and are even proud of the fact that you’ve left yourself bereft of the ability to do so.

You’re not stupid because you believe the world appeared out of nowhere sometime more recently than the domestication of the dog – and no, I’m not going to tentatively say something like “evidence suggests that”, no, it’s a Fucking Fact that the dog became domesticated in the tens of thousands of years ago. You’re a fucking shit faced idiot because of why you believe it. If you haven’t got the gist of this already; you’re proud of being stupid, you actively refuse to learn, you don’t examine anything critically, you fall for any piece of shit “evidence” your masters tell you. You don’t question them. You don’t realise they’re just out there wanting to keep you stupid, keep you ignorant and keep you not wanting to learn about the universe from sources that actually took the time to look at the universe. They want to keep you that way because you buy into their shit, with money. Your actual hard-earned money. You actually value these people with your working time. That’s galling to the rest of us who have a working and fully functioning brain that we deign to actually use.

You pay them. You donate to them. You buy their books and DVDs that they produce for fuck-all money and sell at a premium. You show them to your kids so they grow up stupid and buy more DVDs and books by the Comforts and the Hovinds and the Hams and the Gishes of this world. You show them Jesus riding a fucking dinosaur and pictures of Noah mucking out a boat that’s chock-full of animals that somehow managed to survive and reproduce to form every living thing we see on the planet in a geological blink of an eye – and you think this is right? You don’t think this is the most ridiculous idea in the world? If it wasn’t for the coincidental fact that you’re backed by a non-falsifiable belief shared by a significant proportion of the population, you would actually be declared clinically insane. No joke, there are actually people with more coherent and rational beliefs in their head being secured in mental health wards.

Despite being as embedded as you possibly can in the evidence for it, you don’t realise that there’s an entire industry that makes a fortune from retarding your ability to think. You accept this, and refuse to actually exercise your innate abilities to think, question and explore so long as you say the magic words “but I am thinking, questioning and exploring”. No you’re fucking not. If you were, you’d be in my position. You, too, would find yourself locked in that room, actively battling and fighting with people tearing your ideas apart and demanding that you defend them and stand by them and justify every single thing you say. But you’re not. You never will be. Though, let’s be fair to the non-doctorate holding non-creationists reading this for a brief moment; you don’t even have to be in that position of getting an academic qualification, you just want to be in the position where you’re willing to explore, and learn, and discuss and adapt. You refuse even that, and you think it’s a good thing.

There are a lot of people I think are stupid. Really fucking stupid. I mean, you might think it’s a long way down to the shops, but that’s peanuts compared to this stupid. There are people who think the World Trade Centre wasn’t hit by planes, but by holograms. There are people who think the skies are filled with mind-altering chemicals that can be dispersed – from miles away, no less – by spraying vinegar in the air. There are people who think we’re not being faced with a potential disaster of epic proportions because of how our society has polluted the planet. There are people who think vaccines cause autism and will find any old piece of shit evidence to prove it no matter how many times even the mere correlation is disproved.

But creationism is something else. It has that industry supporting it and perpetuating it, and it has people who buy into it so willingly. And you, because you think that everything came from nothing in a fucking click of a magic man’s fingers, are part of this. You’re out there derping on daily on something that we, using the entire knowledge collectively gathered by the human race, know is a lie. Honestly, you probably think it’s a lie too – but you’re both too damn proud of yourself and too damn proud of your stupidity to admit it. That’s your problem. It’s not about fossils, or genetics, or radiometric dating, it’s about your unwillingness to learn and better yourself. And it always will be.

In conclusion. Fuck you. Go fuck yourself. And may the god you believe in have mercy on your pathetic, idiotic, morally and intellectually bankrupt soul."

Just stop having so many kids. Problem solved, along with many others.

All a child needs to be able to learn and discern are fundamentals of critical thinking in the form of basic/complex problem solving in the immediate world around him/her, and the basics squared.

By basics squared we mean the 3R's and about four foreign languages and maybe some musical training, kids can sponge that up and more in the proper environment. You need to thrown in practical tool-making with the daily training, and maybe some martial arts fundamentals.By the time they are seven (age of reason), you'll have MENSA material on your hands, and the makings of a real piece of work.

If you are into history and want to use it as a platform, leave any teaching of religions to the basics and leave the god-as-a-backdrop out of your curriculum. Your kid can make his own choices about the great unknown later, yer preparing a Renaissance child for a steam-punked future that's moving faster than any parent has the capacity to digest, anyhow...Your take on God will only complicate matters.

wow, this is such bullshit. I like how they say Apple has the technology to solve problems only Apple is smart enough to take on. Like locking away all my music onto a proprietary device... yeah, nice problem solving there assholes.

All the the IRS has to do is raise taxes enough to afford $60,000 in rebates. Problem solved.

Saying; "Naturally, I don't believe in capital punishment." is a supposition. You infer that to believe in capital punishment goes against consensus, which is not the case. The majority are in favour of it.
Contrary to your opinion, there is a humane method. It is used by Dignitas and affords the "subject" dignity and a stress free death.
You say; "Capital punishment seems to be more about vengeance than justice or problem solving." Capital punishment IS about vengeance, justice and problem solving. But justice is the key. Until it has been proven - not with reasonable doubt, but unequivocally - that the accused is guilty, he/she should NOT be executed. People are not interested in whether execution has a deterrent effect (prison appears to have no deterrent effect either. N/York alone has a 65% recidivist rate). The causes of crime are myriad, but that is a separate issue which needs serious debate. We are talking about having your child raped, tortured and murdered by a fellow "human" who then turns to god, plays to the emotions of decent human beings, and asks for forgiveness. This is not something the victims families are interested in. They want justice. Yes, they want vengeance. But they, ultimately, want to see that society values the life of their child. The ultimate crime deserves the ultimate sentence.

I think programming would be a good thing to teach elementary aged kids, but not as a means toward making them programmers or software engineers. Rather it should be a tool used to teach general problem solving techniques. I haven't used any seriously, but I have seen some clever learning 'languages' that involve dragging and dropping images of procedures or actions, and then connecting them up to make a program that does something.(Scratch, I believe is a popular example). I think this is good stuff. Kids that find it particularly satisfying, should be given the option to move on to more traditional programming languages and follow that course of study.

Personally, I love programming. I get a huge kick out of it, and even when it's going badly, I'm still enjoying myself despite the frustration. I think of it as "building machines out of ideas," which is awesome. This is hardly true of everyone (even among many of my former Computer Engineering classmates who were just there because it's a solid-choice, job-prospect wise), and I definitely don't think it should be pushed as some sort of curriculum requirement.

Probably like most people in the field, I started out when I was 11 or 12 wanting to write video games, so taught myself C and assembler(which was necessary at the time). The desire to write video games faded before too long, but my love of programming continued on. This was all extra-curricicular, though, and actually in many ways was detrimental to my other studies, which I found tremendously boring. Had I been given the option earlier to follow a CS/SE/CE type curriculum primarily, I probably would have had a much happier early-schooling experience.

I understand schools in the UK tend to follow a more vocational educational arc, whereby you specialize earlier. I find the pigeonholing nature of that a little concerning (so far as I understand it), but it's better than everybody getting the same bland, little-bit-of-everything approach US public schools use.

Naturally, I don't believe in capital punishment, but it seems to me their lethal injection procedure is too complicated for its own good. A massive opiate overdose (which could be delivered subQ or IM) would initially be euphoric, the person would fall asleep, stop breathing and then die of asphyxiation. There are caveats, of course (like they might not actually die and just end up severely brain-damaged from lack of oxygen), but these could be sorted with an additional injection of something more directly lethal once they were unconscious.

When it comes down to it, though, there really isn't a "humane" way to kill someone. Perhaps more or less "humane" ways, but it's still well down the "humane" spectrum.

Anyways, capital punishment seems to be more about vengeance than justice or problem solving. Also, given that it's not possible to undo, and the embarrassingly large number of cases overturned by DNA evidence as of late, it's just not worth it. People that truly are irredeemable psychopaths should just be given a lifetime sentence with no chance of parole. This wouldn't be a problem if they would stop incarcerating drug users for stupid-long periods of time. Prison should be for people incapable of living in society without causing harm to others. That's a case of mental illness, and should be treated as such.

Privatized prisons wouldn't like that, but if you eliminated all the incarcerated people who could be redeemable with the right treatment, we could direct our resources to maintaining and attempting to treat the truly criminally insane.

Bit of a rant, but the system seems to be broken and getting more broken all the time.

This video really speaks to me. I'm just finishing up my computer science degree, and as part of it, I end up doing a lot of tutoring and actual teaching the classes for those who are just starting out (I want to teach it when I get out).

I always tell the freshmen, computer science is not about any particular language, or coding, its really about problem solving. Its the ability to take a large or complex problem, break it down into smaller tasks, then solve those small tasks. We just happen to do it using a computer. Those I notice that succeed and do well seem to really get this.

Of course I also always tell the freshman to indent when they see a curly brace...but that never happens.....

Maybe wrong thread but a bit related: I can't submit vimeo videos anymore. No matter what I put in the "Video Embed Code"-box: url, new or old embed code. Help.
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Update: bug report done
Update 2: Problem solved. thx @lucky760

Don't shop there - problem solved!

Stupid, obsessive, fetishist gun culture? Assault weapons as "problem solving" tools? Hm, I wonder where this tendency could lead the USA...? OH, THAT'S RIGHT, I REMEMBER NOW.

You don't need high speed internet either, technically (I do, but I am a robot). Technically, you don't need a lot of things, it is all pretty much arbitrary when you talk in those terms. When you make people have to sign up for certain rights via some sort of process, it is the beginning of a real erosion of rights. I'll even meet people half way to say if you want to be in public areas with a gun, some kind of permit is needed like cars...I don't like it, but Ill give you that. But as long as I am not using it to commit crimes, your right to restrict my behavior is over...period. It might be that freedom comes with a hefty prices of dead people, innocent people, innocent people that we could of protected with ever increasing restrictions of social liberties. I mean, look at Saudi Arabia, lower murder rates than even some European countries of pretty good order. But they live in a totalitarian dictatorship, and I am not trying to make a scarecrow argument about totalitarian dictatorships and whatnot, what I am trying to say is people dying isn't the only important metric when talking about rights to do things.


It might be true that more people will die with lacks gun laws, it might be true that more people die because of lacks drug lacks, lots of things might be true about how freedom serves to make economics weak, countries less secure, more prone to internal strife and faction, it might be true that the seeds of freedom and the ability to self regulate cause harms that extend beyond ones self. Even so, I still don't think a better framework exists for conducting ourselves that doesn't cripple and stifle people who have done no wrong. If the price for a drunk driver is abolition, the price of a murder disarmament, the price of wreck less driving horse drawn carriage, then we have failed to address the underlying problem and snub out freedoms ability to creatively deal with complex social challenges via the creative process of problem solving.

I think history has shown that any attempts to snub out action instead of guide it fail miserably. Gun control starts and ends with people, not laws, I suggest we start there. Starting neighborhood gun responsibility programs, safety education for youths, ect...whatever, I don't know, I can't pretend to know what is the best way to address the complex issue of gun control for every community, the point is that is their bag, it can be done without force given the context of the USA. Not every country has that luxury, children roaming the streets with AK-47s is not a real problem in this country, nor would it be if gun control laws were more lacks. We do have problems, I don't want there to be any mistake about that, but I don't think the solution is wholesale elimination of thing that only CAN be dangerous, I mean, anything can be dangerous, ask the folks in Oklahoma about ammonia nitrate...you don't even need a licence to buy that stuff.

Point is, the world is dangerous, and I think freedom allows for a certain amount of that danger to exist. It is the price we pay. We should look to the unwritten code that manages us, the code of culture and community.

"The freedom which we enjoy in our government extends also to our ordinary life. There, far from exercising a jealous surveillance over each other, we do not feel called upon to be angry with our neighbour for doing what he likes, or even to indulge in those injurious looks which cannot fail to be offensive, although they inflict no positive penalty. But all this ease in our private relations does not make us lawless as citizens. Against this fear is our chief safeguard, teaching us to obey the magistrates and the laws, particularly such as regard the protection of the injured, whether they are actually on the statute book, or belong to that code which, although unwritten, yet cannot be broken without acknowledged disgrace."

Pericles' Funeral Oration from the Peloponnesian War

On a less personal and more constructive point,

There is no instant way to solve this crisis in the US society. No instant pill that's going to fix things today.

But start with gun manufacturers who are making the guns and filtering mass amounts of firearms into the populous. They created this homeland conflict and continues to feed it. As long as they keep mass producing the guns for consumption, this problem will never go away. Regulations on what can be sold to who and how many is a start. (lets go back to six shooters with a hammer??)

Secondly, education. Teach people to solve problems without the force of might. There may be a way to solve conflict without violence. Education has never made things worse.

Third, Public health. A more concerted effort to identify and counsel those people who need it. Teach problem solving skills and coping skills.

Make it harder to acquire ammunition as well as guns. Not just to the new gun purchaser but at gun shows where most people buy their guns. The second hand market is about as loose on laws as it can get. Most people can get a gun over night and most times in the same day. This tells me that no real process goes into who can get a gun and if the the guns are being used for protection or for crimes.

Mandatory gun storage laws. Lock it up or loose it.

Gun buy-back programs. Not only should these programs exist on an ongoing basis, there should be a surcharge on gun purchases to help fund this initiative. I think the process of eliminating the excess guns is another key gun control.

Gun registry laws were tried in Canada but it was a miserable failed attempt as it was poorly executed. I don't think this can be successful without superior planning. Direct registration of guns already in public hands at a cost to the owners is designed to fail.

A free registration method on initial registration and a surcharge every time a gun is sold and re-licenced to a new owner would allow gun ownership to be tracked much like car ownership. You could tell who owned it previously, who the dealer was who sold it and so on. Then guns could slowly be taken off the streets if they didn't change hands legally or were un-registered to start with.

The argument to a registry program is that only honest people would register their guns, criminals wouldn't. True but it would give authorities license to confiscate and destroy unregistered guns and/or track how they came into wrongful possession..

I get this. I think I have gotten it since the changes were first implemented.

It is why I have been on board with the rotating Promote feature. I was even on board with limiting Promotes to three at a time. I just had a major issue with the mechanics of the original "fix" -- it took much work to be a responsible promoter, if you cared about your fellow Sifters getting value for their promote.

And I noticed how, if I had a string of successes, I would get more views on my vids -- because folks knew I tended to post good stuff. When I posted stuff that was more ... particular... to me, my success rate would go down. Which was fine -- I post what I like. This is just an observation that success breeds success.

So I get it.

I also know how hooked I got on the Sift quickly because of the rewards for doing well. Moving up in the ranks, getting my next star level, my first Golden One!

I wonder if by limiting the power points like you have, and so drastically, you aren't shooting yourself in the foot. Where are your new stars going to come from? Will they get hooked? Have you instead winnowed down your stars to those who have been here for a long time, and now can promote at will?

I think that Talent Scout badge is a great idea -- give incentive to all Sifters to look at the unsifted vids.

I think limiting Promoted vids to three is also just fine -- just do it automatically with software, rather than that horrible convoluted thing that was so deuced difficult to use by a responsible Sifter (meaning, a Sifter would have to 1-identify a vid they wanted to promote 2-go to the front page and open the oldest vid 3-scroll thru ALL the comments, looking for the LAST promote 4-decide if it had been there long enough.

I am so glad that promote system is gone.

I appreciate the reasons for limiting the number of promotes on the front page (although there being 9-10 promotes really didn't happen that much.) I think limiting to three is just fine.

But I think you are focusing on the wrong thing. You say there is a promote club. It has been here for forever. Since my first days here, I have gotten messages, asking to do the promote trade. It has indeed happened a lot more in the past few months as folks have finally "gotten" it -- promote someone else, it costs 1 PP. Promote yourself, it costs 2 PP. So trade promotes, at a cost of 1 PP.

To fix this, all you have to do is get rid of the incentive to trade. Make all promotes cost 2 PPs.

That does two things -- makes it more expensive to promote, so promotes go down. And gets rid of the incentive to trade promotes, which makes the promotes go down. Add that to limiting promotes through software changes to a max of three, go back to the old look, and bob's your uncle. "Problem" solved. Yeah?

Related to this... If you stay with the limited power points, it will be interesting to see if you get folks hooked on sifting again. As I have said in other places, we are like rats in a lab experiment, pushing the bar to get our pellets. Some of us are already hooked. Will there be new folks lured in? Time will tell.