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LA Deputy Gangs Investigated

newtboy says...

Isn’t it ALWAYS?
Guaranteed they are, at this moment, defending the police that shot an 11 year old child who called them for help …shot while he was following their orders.
The police/prison guard union is the most anti American anti constitutional entity in the USA, the only group that consistently defends the murder of innocent citizens, and is one of the most powerful lobbying groups in Washington.

cloudballoon said:

The Union's response is ridiculous.

Mordhaus (Member Profile)

How This Citizen Stopped ICE From Arresting 2 Immigrants

newtboy says...

True, but that's not the case here.
Edit: I was simply explaining why changing the laws, while the right method, might not be a possibility even though it's supported by a majority. Democracy in America is broken, as I explained, and obstructionism is rampant. People shouldn't be forced to suffer because of that fact if it can be avoided, imo.

No sir. It's his job and sworn duty to follow and uphold the law. Ignoring the words, words that stated the law and legal rights, is the same as ignoring (flaunting) the law, their rights, his job, and his sworn duty.

There's no such duty for the average citizen, who may recognize the failure and obstruction of democracy and, to avoid inhumane treatment of friends and family, stand on their legal rights to deny ice agents the opportunity to abuse their powers and lie about their authority in order to trick the ignorant into not availing themselves of the protections they enjoy under the law. (It's obvious that changing the law to force them to be honest about people's rights and the law is a non starter, since police and prison guard unions are the biggest non corporate lobbyist groups, and they are consistent in their insistence that they be allowed to lie to citizens about the law and rights.) That is not flaunting the law, it's availing oneself of their rights under it, granted it's sometimes in an effort to help others flaunt it.

Often those flaunting the rules of the state regarding who can and cannot enter and stay in the country are the ICE or border agents themselves, as exemplified in this video and many others....but smugglers, who also fit that bill, aren't doing good either, imo.

This person, however, was not flaunting the rules of the state, he was insisting the police follow them if they wish to arrest people, even suspected undocumented immigrants. You agree with that action, I hope.

smr said:

That ends-means stuff has been used to justify some pretty awful, disturbing behavior. By that same argument the ICE officer, using your mores but from a different perspective, would be justified in ignoring the words, forcing open the door, and arresting the illegals. Violation of rights, sure, but it got the job done, right?

Sheriff Caught On Bodycam Telling Deputies To Lie

newtboy says...

There are a few problems with that, and they all end up at the same issue, lobbying.
Police unions are incredibly powerful lobbyists and do lobby against the public's interests, and they use the threat of striking, leaving the public with zero law enforcement, to squash any attempt to regulate them.....and when that fails, the sheriffs and chiefs often just ignore the new laws, like they did about making discipline records public in CA, they just said "nope" and refused to release them, many departments held bonfires where they burned these records to ensure they would never, under any circumstances, become public knowledge....still today, even long after the law went into effect Jan. 1st and has been upheld in courts, the A.G. just outright refused again to follow state law and release these public records. Pretty damn hard to establish an effective oversight body when police have the ability to erase all information they wish by any means with no repercussions.

Second, the prison guard union is the best funded, most powerful private/union lobbying group in America, and they do actually write laws for representatives to present. It's clearly in their best interest to force the desperate to be criminals, it's their bread and butter. They fight to expand minimum sentencing, incarcerate 14 year olds as adults for life, continue and expand the failed drug war, oppose any rescinding of criminal laws, have tried to reinstate debtor's prisons, criminalized multiple civil crimes, etc....incarceration is their business, and business is good.

So while I agree, there are numerous better systems that serve everyone much better with less money , less incarceration, and less recidivism, until we revamp our political system to make it illegal to bribe politicians (and make no mistake, it's perfectly legal to bribe them with campaign donations or promises of massive support), there is no way in hell it's going to improve and a near certainty it will continue to get worse because there's money to be made by locking people up.

Drachen_Jager said:

You could... you know, just establish an effective oversight body that actually punishes cops who step out of line and break the law. Combine that with proper social programs to keep the poorest from being so desperate they see no recourse but to resort to criminal behaviour and hey, just like magic things get better!

Not exactly rocket science.

Honestly, and I'm sorry if I appear to be picking on you here, WTF is up with this bullshit. Every other Westernized democracy has a better record with their police, but Americans just throw their hands up and say, "Golly gee, if it ain't workin' here, I guess there's no solution, 'cuz 'Merica is the best at everythin'." PLENTY of other countries manage just fine. And you know what? They ALSO have lower crime rates and lower recidivism rates.

All you have to do is look beyond your own borders for solutions instead of assuming you know best.

How Norway Reinvented Prison

newtboy says...

Step one, eradicating for profit prisons.

This single idea was the worst thing that ever happened to our legal system, imo. It created billion dollar companies who's product is incarceration. Like any for profit company, they minimize their costs by warehousing people in illegally crowded cells as cheaply as possible with little or no treatments or support during or afterwards and maximize their business by lobbying for ever more incarceration. The prison guard union is the best funded lobbying group in Washington, and created minimum sentencing so every convict becomes a customer.

Make prison a government function again, who's goal is turning out functional citizens, not warehousing as many bodies as they can get paid for, and we might turn a corner.....but that won't ever happen, there's no multi billion dollar prison reform lobbying group to bribe senators into doing the right thing.

Officer Brandishing Weapon On ATV Motorist In North Pole

newtboy says...

No. The guy's not a cop, so acting like a cop by stopping the group was also totally wrong. He had no right to stop them in the first place, and absolutely no right to touch them or try to take their keys (what he seemed to be doing).

So...why were charges pressed against the accosted atv rider and not the gun waiving, officer impersonating prison guard? I'm sure it has something to do with color, I'm just not sure if it's brown or blue that skewed their reactions.

bobknight33 said:

The guy was right to confront the group.

Pulling the gun and the rest of it was where he was out of line.
Pressing charges -- yes -- it is the right thing.

Officer Brandishing Weapon On ATV Motorist In North Pole

bareboards2 says...

Um, it is the prison guard who has been charged and has been placed on administrative leave from his job. Unless there are other documents on line you saw?

The Alaska State Troopers who were called to the scene were showed the footage and gave Walker the opportunity to press charges, which he did.

Unless I am completely missing something?

Reveal: Inside America's Cold Case Problem

newtboy says...

They don't get a bonus, they avoid a reprimand for not meeting quotas.

For profit prison means all those costs are more reason to lock people up, not reason to avoid imprisonment. Yes, it costs us, but makes money for police departments and prisons. The prison guard union is one of the most aggressive, well funded, and successful lobbies in Washington.
That's the profit he's talking about. No one pays for a recovered missing person, but there's money to be had incarcerating a pot smoker. Engage your brain before you spout ridiculousness....if you have the capability.

SeesThruYou said:

Oh really? Care to share your hard data on that claim? I've never heard of cops getting a bonus for solving one type of crime over another. Oh, right, because it doesn't happen. Maybe you're a drug offender and just pissed because you got caught. If anything, locking up drug offenders is MORE EXPENSIVE, because we pay to process them through the system, and then we have to pay to keep them in jail, or pay to send them to rehab programs, which usually DON'T work, which means they'll be back in the system AGAIN, costing us even MORE money. There's NO PROFIT in locking up criminal scumbags, dumbass. This is not the case with missing persons, because once you find a missing person, they go back to their families (if they're alive) and the cops move on to the next case, and those cops get paid the same the entire time they are looking for them. What profit are you talking about? Engage your fucking brain before speaking, peasant.

Why Solitary Confinement Needs to Be Banned

bcglorf says...

This isn't one of those things you can discuss in isolation. There does exist the problem of violent criminals that refuse to listen to any and all authority. When you have free citizen that murders somebody, if you are lucky enough to catch and convict them they go to jail. Some of these folks continue to violently attack other inmates. Some even continue to violent attack the prison guards when they come in to try and stop that. There comes a point where the question is what to we do? Just how many resources do we expend working with individuals hell bent on abusing the rights and bodies of everyone else around them? Western legal systems have already ruled any form of punishment through physical force as out of the question, so self preservation isn't a motivation. There exist scenarios where the only option left for protecting people from an individual is isolation.

It's good to do our best to treat even the worst elements of society with the highest standard possible. The trouble is in practice failing to punish certain actions with imprisonment or isolation leads to predictable abuse of otherwise innocent bystanders.

Four Months as a Private Prison Guard -- Part Two

sixshot says...

My god.... I made more money in two weeks than he does and I didn't have to do as much nor get stressed out like that. 9/hr as a privatized prison guard? Fuck that. You better pay those people 15-20/hr! These people are risking their asses to keep the dangerous people in. And when you don't pay 'em well enough, their morale just sinks.

My Four Months as a Private Prison Guard: Part Four

Four Months as a Private Prison Guard -- Part Three

Four Months as a Private Prison Guard -- Part One

MrFisk (Member Profile)

Four Months as a Private Prison Guard -- Part One



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