>> ^quantumushroom:

Which countries are we comparing to the US incarceration rate? The ones where the government kills you without a fair (or any) trial? The ones where women are still enslaved? Two million incarcerated out of 300 million...go ahead, boost the number imprisoned to 10 million, that's still one-thirtieth of the population.


>> ^raverman:
America has some of the highest rates of crime and imprisonment of most developed nations per capita.
I bet most Americans don't even know that... or believe that the freedom and democracy makes the US a safer place to live.
but why?
Culture? Too much sense of individualistic entitlement?
Guns? How might criminality be linked psychologically to arming individuals that suggests a constitutional entitlement to personal violence?
System? Does Imprisonment reduce re-offending? are long jail time sentences better than rehabilitation? Are sentences appropriate to crimes committed?
Everyone's focused on reducing crime and not asking if the cycle of punishment may be part of the problem.



You forgot about all the non-banana-republics with lower crime rates and lower incarceration rates than the US. e.g., most of north/western europe and most of what used to be the British empire.

Your point is unclear. What are we supposed to be upset about?

You believe that the reason the USA incinerates (per @BoneRemake) so many people is because of private prisons lobbying for more things to be made criminal?

Private prisons may merit a closer look, but keep in mind bad laws, badly-written laws and State-created criminals existed long before private prisons.

And we don't lock up people (or worse) for criticizing the government like China.


>> ^raverman:

@deathcow & @criticalthud : Profit engine has a lot to do with it. Private entities are like virii. They can ONLY encourage things which increase growth / profit. It's a conflict of interest to reduce crime. Companies like Serco scare the crap out of me - cos most people don't know they even exist.
http://videosift.com/video/The-Biggest-Company-You-ve-Never-Heard-Of
I'm not sure the scale argument holds up. It's just comforting to think America is big like Texas. The application of law across a 100M to 300M shouldn't someones attitude or morality when making a decision. If the pop density per Sq Mile was the issue the US has plenty of open space, and the cities are not that more populated than any other. Nor is the poorest American poorer.
I don't think it's even the volume of drugs coming over from central/south america... although the zealous enforcement of imprisonment probably doesnt help. Drugs may not be the gateway to crime - but being imprisoned certainly seems to be.
I'd side with the 'extreme liberty' argument.

It's hard to build a Jenga of wit and whimsy off of your original mirth, "Woody".

>> ^acidSpine:

>> ^quantumushroom:
I'd rather live in a gayborhood than in the 'hood. And I'm against kids.
>> ^acidSpine:
>> ^quantumushroom:
This is the first time a lot of these men have ever heard anything straight from a father figure.

So I assume you'd be in favour of kids having two fathers?

Ahh ha ahh ha ahhhh, did your mum come up with that joke?

According to the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) 2,266,800 adults were incarcerated in U.S. federal and state prisons, and county jails at year-end 2010 — about .7% of adults in the U.S. resident population.


Sorry, I forget I'm dealing with liberals. I'll type slower.


>> ^Asmo:

>> ^quantumushroom:
Which countries are we comparing to the US incarceration rate? The ones where the government kills you without a fair (or any) trial? The ones where women are still enslaved? Two million incarcerated out of 300 million...go ahead, boost the number imprisoned to 10 million, that's still one-thirtieth of the population.
Figures you're so pig ignorant you can't even google the rate before you shoot your mouth off... =)

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>> ^GeeSussFreeK:

Don't get me wrong, I think a lot of crimes shouldn't be, like drugs and the like. But there isn't a first world country of western values (so I am leaving out japan here), close to the size of the US. Things don't always scale how you would suppose (lineally).



Seems to me, if having a bigger country means you have to put more people in prison, maybe it's best to decentralize a bit.

>> ^quantumushroom:

Which countries are we comparing to the US incarceration rate? The ones where the government kills you without a fair (or any) trial? The ones where women are still enslaved? Two million incarcerated out of 300 million...go ahead, boost the number imprisoned to 10 million, that's still one-thirtieth of the population.

Figures you're so pig ignorant you can't even google the rate before you shoot your mouth off... =)

>> ^raverman:

America has some of the highest rates of crime and imprisonment of most developed nations per capita.
I bet most Americans don't even know that... or believe that the freedom and democracy makes the US a safer place to live.



America has these high rates for the same reason we have a "drug war" and repeated conflicts throughout the world. Because it pays AWESOME for the people who lobby our government.

>> ^quantumushroom:

I'd rather live in a gayborhood than in the 'hood. And I'm against kids.
>> ^acidSpine:
>> ^quantumushroom:
This is the first time a lot of these men have ever heard anything straight from a father figure.

So I assume you'd be in favour of kids having two fathers?

Ahh ha ahh ha ahhhh, did your mum come up with that joke?

>> ^quantumushroom:

Which countries are we comparing to the US incarceration rate? The ones where the government kills you without a fair (or any) trial? The ones where women are still enslaved? Two million incarcerated out of 300 million...go ahead, boost the number imprisoned to 10 million, that's still one-thirtieth of the population.
>> ^raverman:
America has some of the highest rates of crime and imprisonment of most developed nations per capita.
I bet most Americans don't even know that... or believe that the freedom and democracy makes the US a safer place to live.
but why?
Culture? Too much sense of individualistic entitlement?
Guns? How might criminality be linked psychologically to arming individuals that suggests a constitutional entitlement to personal violence?
System? Does Imprisonment reduce re-offending? are long jail time sentences better than rehabilitation? Are sentences appropriate to crimes committed?
Everyone's focused on reducing crime and not asking if the cycle of punishment may be part of the problem.


All countries. ALL COUNTRIES. We incarcerate more people (officially) per capita than any other country in the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate

When looking at the list, please keep in mind that Rwanda (woo, we only imprison 25% more of our population than they do!) should not be our competition. We should be trying to be better than other sturdy Western countries with stable economies. We out-imprison them by 4-500%.

I'd rather live in a gayborhood than in the 'hood. And I'm against kids.

>> ^acidSpine:

>> ^quantumushroom:
This is the first time a lot of these men have ever heard anything straight from a father figure.

So I assume you'd be in favour of kids having two fathers?

Which countries are we comparing to the US incarceration rate? The ones where the government kills you without a fair (or any) trial? The ones where women are still enslaved? Two million incarcerated out of 300 million...go ahead, boost the number imprisoned to 10 million, that's still one-thirtieth of the population.




>> ^raverman:

America has some of the highest rates of crime and imprisonment of most developed nations per capita.
I bet most Americans don't even know that... or believe that the freedom and democracy makes the US a safer place to live.
but why?
Culture? Too much sense of individualistic entitlement?
Guns? How might criminality be linked psychologically to arming individuals that suggests a constitutional entitlement to personal violence?
System? Does Imprisonment reduce re-offending? are long jail time sentences better than rehabilitation? Are sentences appropriate to crimes committed?
Everyone's focused on reducing crime and not asking if the cycle of punishment may be part of the problem.

Congratulations! Your comment has just received enough votes from the community to earn you 1 Power Point. Thank you for your quality contribution to VideoSift.

Don't get me wrong, I think a lot of crimes shouldn't be, like drugs and the like. But there isn't a first world country of western values (so I am leaving out japan here), close to the size of the US. Things don't always scale how you would suppose (lineally). I still think you are right to suppose we do lock up to many people here, I would agree. But I think to compare fairly, you would need to do so with a comparable sized country, of which there isn't really a suitable one. Entropy is a real thing in many other biological instances (especially population densities), it might also apply to cultures...and the corresponding social/economic factors as a result. Once again, not a justification, just perhaps and explanation that if other countries were as large they would experience the same whoas.

Also, I would tend to expect more people in jails where freedom abounds, ironically. What I mean is, when freedom is cheap, people will tend to push the boundary of what isn't free (moral hazard) moreso than if they were afraid to practice certain freedoms. Moral hazard is a newish word that gets thrown around a lot now, but I think there is merit in the concept. When you are given leeway, you take all that you can get...and perhaps a bit more. Resulting in the ironic position that practicing extreme liberty results in many who have restricted liberty because of violations. Life is funny that way. And once again, I think we go overboard here on what is legal and illegal. (soon, it is going to be illegal for me not to carry health insurance for example, and it is already illegal for me to do certain unapproved drugs. I don't imagine it much time before it is illegal to be fat, or any type of burden on someone else's view of utopia.)


>> ^raverman:

America has some of the highest rates of crime and imprisonment of most developed nations per capita.
I bet most Americans don't even know that... or believe that the freedom and democracy makes the US a safer place to live.
but why?
Culture? Too much sense of individualistic entitlement?
Guns? How might criminality be linked psychologically to arming individuals that suggests a constitutional entitlement to personal violence?
System? Does Imprisonment reduce re-offending? are long jail time sentences better than rehabilitation? Are sentences appropriate to crimes committed?
Everyone's focused on reducing crime and not asking if the cycle of punishment may be part of the problem.

>> ^raverman:

America has some of the highest rates of crime and imprisonment of most developed nations per capita.
I bet most Americans don't even know that... or believe that the freedom and democracy makes the US a safer place to live.
but why?
Culture? Too much sense of individualistic entitlement?
Guns? How might criminality be linked psychologically to arming individuals that suggests a constitutional entitlement to personal violence?
System? Does Imprisonment reduce re-offending? are long jail time sentences better than rehabilitation? Are sentences appropriate to crimes committed?
Everyone's focused on reducing crime and not asking if the cycle of punishment may be part of the problem.


theFreak pretty much nailed it above.

America has turned prisons into a profit generating system. In fact, crime itself, including terrorism, has created an enormously profitable system - private prisons, private guards, private security, private counter-terrorism (espionage, etc.). all funded with the taxpayer buck by means of politicians who claim to "reduce" government at the cost of incredible windfalls to private contractors (and nice "donations" back to the politician).

To keep the motor humming, the lower classes are generally targeted.
From a propaganda standpoint, being poor (and black) in this country is pretty much equated with being a criminal. It is an essential element in the "blame the poor" lie for the woes of this country. Since it is drilled into our brains, our society largely doesn't give a fuck that the laws and enforcement of the laws are generally inequitable to the lower income class.

and so the wheel turns.
Only an informed public can fix this crap.