The sheens have played in two good Viet movies. Platoon and 'Apocalypse Now'

"As far as you, this particular Colonel might have never worked with armor"

Actually he was an Armored Colonel. Since when do Chaplains, Lawyers or Doctors command assaulting regiments? You're really overreaching here.

"Maybe he was briefed that he would be looking at the UK counterpart to the Bradley"

Maybe, if so the people who briefed him were idiots. The Scorpion is a light tank and plays a completely different role. In any case I didn't know a single soldier in my time with the armored who couldn't identify 99% of the armored vehicles in service from front or side silhouettes or from a picture ESPECIALLY not ones so common as a Scorpion and a Bradley. The zipperheads drilled on that stuff all the time.

When I was in Basic Training we had a US Marine who'd served for 5 years in the US forces in my platoon. He was a dual Canadian/US citizen and after working with the Canadian forces on an exercise he saw the difference in calibre and enrolled in the Canadian forces. He said that Canadian basic training was tougher than anything he'd gone through as a marine.

EVERY enlisted member goes through that training.

Really if you've never worked extensively with other forces what position are you in to compare?

In front of CFB Shilo there is an M109 which was LOST by American forces on exercise. For those who don't know an M109 is mobile artillery, it looks like a tank only taller. After a US exercise on a Canadian base it's common to find teepees made of M16s that have been left behind. These are not things competent soldiers do.

Your jarhead ass better vote for this.

Hahaha... awesome.

As a side note, anyone who has been a marine can attest to the whole platoon taking just a few minutes from the first guy entering to the last guy leaving the chow hall (2 minutes was our platoon's record in basic). And yeah, we ate too. We just didn't chew, that's a waste of time. Not having a BM for many days was also normal... lol.

Wow. Four shots from 200 yards = 182.88 m and he didn't hit the target at all? What a n00b. I haven't tried an M16 but the AK can definitely be more accurate than that. And it is ridiculously easy and fast to disassemble and reassemble as well. I think the best times of dis- and reassembling the gun were well under 20 sec. in my platoon. Not blindfolded, heh!

The point about the AK losing basically all accuracy after the first shot while bursting is absolutely true though. But does it really matter because your first shot hits...?
Seriously, one should only use the burst mode in close combat. At distance it's just a waste of bullets.

I'm still curious, can you really shoot 3-shot bursts with the M16 and still be accurate over distance. What is the longest range a good shooter can reliably hit a target with an M16. With an AK you can't expect to hit too accurately after 300 meters...

Well, the point is that as a man you don't have to choose to desire women. You're built that way. To desire other men there has to be a change at some point to cause that. Whether it's in the womb, a decision (concious or otherwise) brought on by external influences, or a combination of factors hasn't been proven yet. My opinion that it's a choice is just that, a personal opinion. If there's ever concrete scientific evidence where it can positively be stated that it's completely out of someone's control and they just are born wired that way, that's fine. Although that still leaves the people I've known that have claimed it was a concious decision at a point in their life, and that it's like a fetish, meaning that at least some homosexuals are not born with this crossed wiring. If it is true that genetics causes homosexual children to be born, and this has been happening througout all of recorded history, I would think there would be some kindof evolutionary response to begin to weed this weakness out. Doc_m, or someone else with a good genetics backround, please correct me if this is wrong. Also, since I neglected to clarify this in my previous post, my opinion that homosexuality is a decision has no Biblical basis, nor is it a core issue. Only it's immorality, not it's origins, are mentioned.

**EDIT**
For wazant, that scenerio doesn't work. You would walk up to your commanding officer, tell him your gay, wait for laughter, then go back to work. No one is going to discharge you because you claim you're gay. If they discharge someone, it's for other reasons. Usually related to the gay soldiers platoon seriously voicing official complaints, or in extreme cases, catching someone in a homosexual act. You can't just say you're gay and expect them to start your paperwork.

I, on the other hand, DO have enough time to write a long response, so here we go: *cracks knuckles*

1. I,m sorry i wasn't around earlier to get in on this one. I love to offer my opinion and insights into threads like this, since i meet the proper demographics. Male, Caucasian, Heterosexual, between the ages of 18-24. Now, the previous demographics are what makes up a VERY large portion of our armed forces. Being that i AM in the armed forces, (now that MG is out i think in one of the only ones still in that posts around here) I would like to think i can offer some insight to all of this. I will try to stay non-biased, and will let you know when I'm offering MY opinion.

Ok, MY opinion first. I am in the same boat as MG in that i don't believe in homosexuality. I don't hate the people i hate what they are doing. I promise i wont use the Adam and Steve approach as it is way over done, however, if being gay was natural, penis slapping and "scissoring" (the south park 300 episode) would make babies. Well I've seen allot of crazy videos deemed not appropriate for the sift, and i'm pretty sure it doesn't match what i learned in sex-ed way back when. Now, also just like MG, i have had gay friends, but unlike MG do not any longer, only because I've been serving over 4 years now, and they are far and few between around here. I'm not saying gays shouldn't be allowed to serve, by all means, if you have in in your heart to give yourself to your country, be my guest.

Now trying to stay objective. I'm not like most 22 year old guys who would be weirded out by the fact there are gay guys in the shower room or whatever. I honestly don't care. I'm married to a beautiful woman, and my first child is one the way. I'm confident in my sexuality that i can say Pierce Brennan's is a good looking guy. Does that mean i want to jump his bone? no. So personally i wouldn't care if a guy was checking my shit out, and i knew there was a gay guy in the shower. So long as hes not doing it to the point that its obvious. but OTHER soldiers my age, would have a shit fit. Lets face it, This is just the society that people are being raised in. Our culture foster it. now i understand there is allot of action against it. cool. got it. All im saying is that the don't ask don't tell policy does work, but not for keeping gays out, it works by giving the "straight" guys peace of mind. Its human nature. If we don't know its there, its not. So if we don't know this guy is gay, then hes not, and therefore don't have to worry about it. I served with an openly gay gay the last time i was in Korea. Now this guy was ATFU to begin with, but once he came out that brought about a whole new world of shit. Maybe its because the chain of command were bigots, maybe it had something to do with the fact that he asked another kid to suck his dick. (honestly, thats how we all found out)

From talking to soldiers and just listening to soldiers talk, having openly gays in the military would be harmfull. At least until our culture and society accepts them on the whole. Openly gay soldiers will (not all the time) be ostracized, outlasted and lonely (though not from the command, from the tight knit band of the platoon) This one lonesome soldier will more than likely be so depressed by all this they are worth nothing as far as productivity. And if they are not used to being treated like this, have a chance of slipping into depression, and god forbid, suicidal thoughts. And you can't tell me that this wont have an impact on mission readiness/performance.

Moving onto Sometimes:

I applaud your detective work in the scripture. My bible was unfortunately one thing i forgot to bring to Korea with me. I will say this however. The bible is a translation of a translation of a translation. But its the best I have so I will use it. Anyways, what im saying is that a couple line of scripture here and there don't say anything. In a Michael Moore-esque way they do yes, but the bible is all about context. Unfortunately i cant go look all the scriptures up right now, so I don't know what context that is in. I do know however that the bible is basically one huge metaphor. Stoning might not actually mean stoning. Im going to have to look those up. Besides, the argument of Christian values is more or less invalid from your point. If God decrees that something is wrong and someone did it, and the townsfolk stoned him, they were doing Gods work, so yes stoning the little bastard might be in line with Christian values. Again i have to read that scripture.

@ Berticus. you said:

@Lurch: Why would someone choose homosexuality, knowing the amount of grief they're going to have to suffer through? Also, there are hypotheses about how homosexuality could be evolutionarily adaptive.

@MarineGunrock: If sex is purely for procreation, then you have only ever had sex with the goal in mind of making children? Have you ever used a condom? Have you ever had oral sex? That isn't for procreation... unless I have a profound misunderstanding of anatomy.

As far as choosing to do something that brings them grief. I like Michael jack son, and i get shit for it, but i still listen to it. Granted its little tiny shits, but none the less. people like it, so they do it. Now as far as sex for pleasure.. well, Sex is awesome. Hell yes. Allot of people do anal. Straight men love to pound butt. woman kinda butt. they aren't gay. But i'm sure gay men love to pound but. hairy man-ass kinda but. Both kinds of guy enjoy it. Now take your S&M or 2g1c (2 girls 1 cup. I just shortened it. Yeah that just happened) kind of people. Theres no way in fuck your genetically predispositioned to liking people bite your nipples with a pair of vice grips or someone shitting on your face. People choose to like that shit. Yeah i choose to love sex with woman. lesbians do the same.

@ Skeeve, since no one clarified this one yet. We have the same kind of entry standards, but they stay skewed even after entry. Men and woman are NOT equal in the military. Now, if the gays in my army just like the skin flute but can still pull their weight, cool. If they are the kinda HEEEEEEAAAAAAYYYYYY kinda gays, who are too concerned with nails and hair and shit (referred to as fags by gay people that i know) then no, i don't want them. Nor do i want the straight females who do the same thing. Its not always about being gay.

@Farhad2000. You say the GOV shouldn't have any say on what goes on in your bedroom? Thing about it is, when these people enlist they are told these policies and they still joined. Now, its pretty much a policy in every unit,, gay or straight sex is not allowed in the barracks. If anyone out there says anything about people not knowing that when they enlist, this is for you: They shoulda asked. "hey when i get to my unit, can i bang chicks in my room?"

Wow. i was going to keep going, but i just realized how long this was getting. rembar, you got lucky hahah

I was immediately wondering why I didn't remember a German guy in Platoon when I realized it's all German, and then I saw your comment.

Ok, so military made to look bad by one of their own, then military investigation and interview of his platoon finds out that no one is willing to admit to investigators anything?/ Am I shocked?

The other facet to this story is how Rovian it all is. Whenever you want to disguise you dirty tricks and cover up bad behavior, just leak a fake story accusing the exact same thing (which is in fact in essence true) and then show the leaked story to be phony. How many times do you have to see the Rathering, swiftboating, etc to not see the pattern?

Drill is more like group sex than a dance routine.

And it is done for a civilian audience, and to impress other platoons or whatever.

It's totally a performance art / mind control device.

I love it.

The Lithuanian military band are the coolest in the world, i wish they'd put their james bond routine on youtube.

From my "M1 Tank Platoon" days, I would think it'd be rather easy to throw a track doing something like that (i.e., track gets forced off the wheels, supposedly a major pain to put back on).

I voted because I like the movie and feel thats it is not represented well among war movies concerning Vietnam. Its no Full Metal Jacket or Platoon, but it has its moments.

I watched this in the cinema upon release and I just detested the film entirely. The entire film from start to finish has a large degree of blur and over exposure added digitally to make some of the CGI less fake... however this makes the entire film look like ass.

Not to mention in the end you are forced to sit through 5 minutes of dialogue while hearing UV beating the snot out of a small platoon in another location adjacent. Like WTF?

Haha - I've just realised that I've posted a clip from a really badly dubbed German version of Platoon. I'm gonna wait and see if this gets any votes before I decide whether to discard or not...

From the Youtube page: Troops from Alpha Company, 2nd Platoon, "Red Devils" from Edmonton, Canada conduct a dawn raid on a Taliban compound on July 13, 2006 in Hydarabad, Helmand Province in southern Afghanistan. (The regiment in question is the PPCLI, or Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry.)

By the way, the guy talking at the end has a distinctly rural-Prairie accent, lest anybody think we Canucks all sound like Coach Z