yeah sure, i still see the bias. lets just see how it goes..on another note, your reproductive system is showing

>> ^peggedbea:
there are a lot of people of faith on the sift, several of them. more than you think apparently. and they're generally well-liked. it probably has a lot to do with them not carrying a cross on their backs and whining that their shitty testimonial sift didnt fair too well in a community that values empirical evidence and logic. there are a lot views because there is a lot of discussion happening and thats attracting people, but what this man said wasn't any good, isn't anything new and astounding, and isn't worthy of an upvote. so the votes are low. you've prompted a great discussion, be grateful and quit taking the fact that a community thats mostly non-religious and values evidence and logic over testimony didn't like what this man had to say.
"if i were more popular people wouldn't be jerks and downvote me"
this is the most irritating thing to me. i have yet to see the downvote bias in action here. but there always seems to be someone carrying around a persecution complex, sifting crappy videos and blaming their low vote totals on some imaginary popularity contest. there isn't a popularity contest. one of the dudes with one of the highest vote ratios i know of has barely left any comments whatsoever and speaks to noone. noone knows who is. "popularity" does not translate into upvotes. nor does it even mean youre necessarily "well-liked" whatever that means since this is, after all, the fucking internet. i'd say the screenname "peggedbea" is fairly well known because ive been pretty vocal and active for years. i have made "internet friends" here, but it certainly doesn't help my videos get sifted. and it doesnt get my comments upvoted. sometimes i say something relevant and people like it, mostly i say something bitchy and people dont read it. its not personal.
and you just called anyone who didn't like what this guy had to say "jerks". thats the point of the sift, if you dont like it.. you downvote it. its not personal. at all. its how the site works.
people not liking this video has more to do with the fact that its lame than it does to do with you personally. this titty baby persecution complex is fucking lame. get over yourself.
>> ^shinyblurry:
I don't mean it's rigged..I mean that even though we had a good discussion going and it's popular enough, people withheld their vote or even downvoted because of their opinion on the subject matter..it's not that the subject matter is of no interest, which it obviously is..it's because they disagree with it.
It's also because I am not well liked in the community, for whatever reason..if I was more popular, people wouldn't be jerks and downvote me (6 so far)..I mean this is my first published video..quite a welcome right.
I think this video proves the bias here at the sift..you'd probably be hard pressed to find another video with such high views and comments and few votes. Of course I don't think there is any disagreement there is a bias against theists here..but its worth noting in any case.
I mean here is a video that gets people talking and makes people think, even if they don't agree with it..yet I would probably get into the top 10 instantly if I posted yet another angry atheist railing against God. Maybe I am wrong but it doesn't seem like it.
>> ^dag:
Ha. "artificially suppressed"? Now I think I'm being trolled. You know how voting works here. It's 100% human - ain't nothing artificial about it. >> ^shinyblurry:
>> ^dag:
Wow. 96 comments and only 12 net upvotes. That's sort of unusual for around here.

Yeah, I think it's kind of telling..I mean according to the statistics..now 110 comments and 1100 views, it should have easily made it to the top 10, just based on its popularity. It's pretty clear it is being artificially suppressed.

hehe, you said titty

>> ^peggedbea: this titty baby persecution complex is fucking lame. get over yourself.

there are a lot of people of faith on the sift, several of them. more than you think apparently. and they're generally well-liked. it probably has a lot to do with them not carrying a cross on their backs and whining that their shitty testimonial sift didnt fair too well in a community that values empirical evidence and logic. there are a lot views because there is a lot of discussion happening and thats attracting people, but what this man said wasn't any good, isn't anything new and astounding, and isn't worthy of an upvote. so the votes are low. you've prompted a great discussion, be grateful and quit taking the fact that a community thats mostly non-religious and values evidence and logic over testimony didn't like what this man had to say.

"if i were more popular people wouldn't be jerks and downvote me"

this is the most irritating thing to me. i have yet to see the downvote bias in action here. but there always seems to be someone carrying around a persecution complex, sifting crappy videos and blaming their low vote totals on some imaginary popularity contest. there isn't a popularity contest. one of the dudes with one of the highest vote ratios i know of has barely left any comments whatsoever and speaks to noone. noone knows who is. "popularity" does not translate into upvotes. nor does it even mean youre necessarily "well-liked" whatever that means since this is, after all, the fucking internet. i'd say the screenname "peggedbea" is fairly well known because ive been pretty vocal and active for years. i have made "internet friends" here, but it certainly doesn't help my videos get sifted. and it doesnt get my comments upvoted. sometimes i say something relevant and people like it, mostly i say something bitchy and people dont read it. its not personal.

and you just called anyone who didn't like what this guy had to say "jerks". thats the point of the sift, if you dont like it.. you downvote it. its not personal. at all. its how the site works.

people not liking this video has more to do with the fact that its lame than it does to do with you personally. this titty baby persecution complex is fucking lame. get over yourself.

>> ^shinyblurry:

I don't mean it's rigged..I mean that even though we had a good discussion going and it's popular enough, people withheld their vote or even downvoted because of their opinion on the subject matter..it's not that the subject matter is of no interest, which it obviously is..it's because they disagree with it.
It's also because I am not well liked in the community, for whatever reason..if I was more popular, people wouldn't be jerks and downvote me (6 so far)..I mean this is my first published video..quite a welcome right.
I think this video proves the bias here at the sift..you'd probably be hard pressed to find another video with such high views and comments and few votes. Of course I don't think there is any disagreement there is a bias against theists here..but its worth noting in any case.
I mean here is a video that gets people talking and makes people think, even if they don't agree with it..yet I would probably get into the top 10 instantly if I posted yet another angry atheist railing against God. Maybe I am wrong but it doesn't seem like it.
>> ^dag:
Ha. "artificially suppressed"? Now I think I'm being trolled. You know how voting works here. It's 100% human - ain't nothing artificial about it. >> ^shinyblurry:
>> ^dag:
Wow. 96 comments and only 12 net upvotes. That's sort of unusual for around here.

Yeah, I think it's kind of telling..I mean according to the statistics..now 110 comments and 1100 views, it should have easily made it to the top 10, just based on its popularity. It's pretty clear it is being artificially suppressed.

I don't have a problem with unbelievers, certainly not on a human level. I've been coming to this site since probably around 2007..I only joined the community recently because of the group-think going on around here regarding God, and decided to present an alternate viewpoint. I don't really think anyone is going to convert to Christianity because I posted a video, but I will at least try to expand someones awareness about God. And who said anything about being martryed? It's amusing how unbelievers will accuse you of a persecution complex when you make the slightest complaint..i think its pretty easy to see how I am being treated. and it's not like I didn't know what I was getting into. This is the internet so I am wearing my big boy pants. I really don't know what you're complaining about..sorry that you were forced to watch my video and read all the comments. You do know you don't have to do that, right?

That's quite the persecution complex you've got there Quantum

November 2nd didn't really mean a damned thing other than how much of a sound bite nation America is.

You want to talk about comedy? What about all the morons who went out and bought a ton of guns and ammo the day Obama was elected because of the "fear" and "panic" of Obama supposedly planning to have more restrictive gun laws

Does freedom win? Hardly, but if you worked in the firearms industry, im sure the profits were nice. More profits = more democracy right?

Right?

Nice how murder brings people together... I've really got no sympathy left for Israelis. The whole persecution complex is really getting old.

>> ^quantumushroom:
Celebrating the Founding Fathers' genius instead of endlessly focusing on the flaws of their age, and whining about slavery and the genocide of Indians.
Celebrating the great thinkers of Europe and America instead of condemning and ignoring them because they're White.
Celebrating the free market and capitalism (White guy ideas) that bring more wealth to more people than government programs and communism.
Rejecting chip-on-shoulder diversity/multi-cult garbage that equates witch doctors with neurosurgeons.
Being proud of the American flag.
Speaking English. And if you're not from here but here to stay, learning English.

Open borders advocates are the ones setting the stage for anarchy in the name of "tolerance".


I said define white culture, not conservative culture. There is a difference, but I guess you're unable to see it. Rather an interesting persecution complex you have going here though; it must suck to live in your reality. But hey, you're certainly entitled to it.

The rest of the West does not consider it a burning offence or even really a notable event to be an athiest.

Persecution complex. I have lived in the Bible Belt, the mid-west, the East coast, the West coast, and the Intermountain West and I have never at any time noted an Atheist treated disrespectfully. There are no atheist lynchings, beatings, or anything of the sort.

The existence of religious people is not 'pesecution' of atheism. I think it is high time the 'atheist movement' got over itself.

>> ^direpickle:
I'm an atheist, or near enough to. I think nonbeliever is a perfectly cromulent term. I don't believe in any particular thing. I'm a nonbeliever.


Rather than being referred to as a non-believer I'd much rather our politicians, especially our president, simply address us as "My Fellow Americans", and leave religion out of his speeches.

The problem is that if a pol doesn't address Xians specifically, they get their persecution complex in high gear and start whimpering that everyone is out to get them, but if said pol only addresses them the rest of the religions tend to take offense to them only addressing the Xians. So then they include the other religions, and the atheists pitch a fit because they don't think pols should be addressing religions at all, but atheists are very bad about making their case. So come the next round the pols are so bent on not offending anyone that they read off a list of people to include, when they shouldn't address any particular groups but their citizenry as a whole. But that brings us back to the beginning with Xians whining and bitching because they weren't special.

1) i once had a marriage anoled because i married an unmedicated paranoid schizofrenic 4 hrs before i technically turned 18.... oh and we were both on drugs.

2) the video did not answer my question about private donations to the cause from private citizens, who may or may not be LDS. how much of that money was donated by citizens, church members and is that illegal or unethical?

3) mormons were told constitution gay marriage would take away their rights to marry in the temple. the slippery slope argument they concocted was that if the church refused to perform same sex marriage in the temple, they would lose the right to perform temple marriage period. thats of course ridiculous, but thats what the church told its members and thats what they believed.

4) i could talk to anyone for hours about mormons and polygamy.

5) a few weeks leading up to the election the LDS priesthood all over the country was told to "get their houses in order" because they knew this scrutiny was coming. and all this protesting and scrutiny, while i think its fine, only enhances the raging mormon persecution complex and makes them stronger.

6) ive always thought temple square was beautiful at christmas time. i bet it was even more stunning with 2000 homo protestors surrounding the perimeter. sorry i missed it.

I'll field this one. They made it up. To keep their control of the masses.

I also don't see a huge difference in religion and mental illness, but I am an arrogant twit on that point as well, so there..

>> ^peggedbea:
>> ^StukaFox:
I sure had a lot more empathy for Mormons before Prop 8.

ok ok ok ok.. mormons and prop 8. they were all told by church leaders, and in their priesthood meetings all over the country that a constitutional amendment allowing gay marriage would mean that if they refused to allow homosexuals to marry in the temple, they would loose the legal authority to preform temple marriages period, which means to a mormon that they take away your right to be married to your spouse and sealed to your family for eternity. you can no longer have children born into a covenant, and your marriage ends at death. temple marriage is EXTREMELY important to these people. so, im not sure where they got this idea, i bought it myself for a little while and i was even upset about it. it turns out its slipery slope propaganda, but they were told by church leaders that this meant the iminent demise of their marriages. thats why you had overwhelming LDS support for prop 8. mormons all over the country gave their money to fight something they perceived would take their rights away. normally mormons sport a live and let live philosophy, they do not like to be in the spotlight, they have a righteous persecution complex, but they really really thought their rights were in danger. i dont know what to say of church leaders, im not sure where they got this idea, but i know it came from the top and spread like fire throughout the wards. now, i know they believe some really stupid shit. and i love me a good mormon joke. but i think sam harris is an arrogant pompous twit. south park did the BEST job of making fun of mormons and then following it up with a "yeah so they believe stupid shit, but theyre peaceful happy people with amazing family values and youre all fucked up so fuck you." ... oh i also realize that not all mormons are good to their families. mines a shining dysfunctional example of what happens when you mix religion with a giant heaping dose of mental illness.

>> ^StukaFox:
I sure had a lot more empathy for Mormons before Prop 8.


ok ok ok ok.. mormons and prop 8. they were all told by church leaders, and in their priesthood meetings all over the country that a constitutional amendment allowing gay marriage would mean that if they refused to allow homosexuals to marry in the temple, they would loose the legal authority to preform temple marriages period, which means to a mormon that they take away your right to be married to your spouse and sealed to your family for eternity. you can no longer have children born into a covenant, and your marriage ends at death. temple marriage is EXTREMELY important to these people. so, im not sure where they got this idea, i bought it myself for a little while and i was even upset about it. it turns out its slipery slope propaganda, but they were told by church leaders that this meant the iminent demise of their marriages. thats why you had overwhelming LDS support for prop 8. mormons all over the country gave their money to fight something they perceived would take their rights away. normally mormons sport a live and let live philosophy, they do not like to be in the spotlight, they have a righteous persecution complex, but they really really thought their rights were in danger. i dont know what to say of church leaders, im not sure where they got this idea, but i know it came from the top and spread like fire throughout the wards. now, i know they believe some really stupid shit. and i love me a good mormon joke. but i think sam harris is an arrogant pompous twit. south park did the BEST job of making fun of mormons and then following it up with a "yeah so they believe stupid shit, but theyre peaceful happy people with amazing family values and youre all fucked up so fuck you." ... oh i also realize that not all mormons are good to their families. mines a shining dysfunctional example of what happens when you mix religion with a giant heaping dose of mental illness.

I don't know of any other group that has a persecution complex quite like the Christians. As a whole, they are probably the single most powerful religious group on the planet, yet they flip out and play martyr whenever someone doesn't buy what they're selling.

Wow, I never meant to be so controversial in my statements. In the interest of full disclosure, I am an atheist/agnostic who finds religion in general to be convoluted. Mormanism specifically stands out to me because I have first hand experience with it and feel qualified to address it.

I fell out of theology in general approximately 10 yrs. ago because I failed to reconcile the concept of hell with just and loving god. For 10 yrs. I was the only deconvert in my family.

My brother was a priesthood holding member and church attendant for 35 yrs. and only confessed to the family that he was no longer a follower this last Easter. He lost his faith by specifically looking into church history and my criticisms of it are informed on conversations I've had with him. Unfortunately it is 5am here and I won't be able to call him for another 2 hours, at which time I will offer a more substantive critique.

Based purely on my own experience, it seems the church sort of attempts to set up a persecution complex in its members, an us against them mentality if you wish. I was very aware of the fact that there is antimormon literature and people actively seeking to bring down the church. I never read any and it is seen as purely blasphemous material. Any reading of it is highly frowned upon by church members. When I was a member I had never heard of Joe being anything but a standup guy. Indeed, even Dag's statement that Joe was a "showman and philanderer" would have shocked the shit out of me. Of course its possible that this is only because I fell out at a young age and I would imagine that with the advent of the internet this is very different today.

"Were you trying to say that they should have addressed the early church in the video?"

No, I was only trying to point out that the emphasis on early church history is probably an area in the mormon church in which they part ways with most denominations of Christianity.

"Oh, crap. PLEASE don't refer people to that stupid South Park video!"

I stand by my previous statement that this is a factually correct portrayal of how the word of god was received by Joe, including the sheet. Nobody was allowed to see plates as he translated them. You forgot the magic stones.
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Translation_of_the_Book_of_Mormon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_plates

"And as for the Martin Harris thing, they're trying to make Mormons look like idiots for believing that."

How else do you think I would see it?

"Since it was likely that some enemy of Smith's had their hands on the pages, it would have been stupid to translate them again in exactly the same way. Someone could have changed the manuscript and then shown how it was different from the new translation, thus proving Smith a false prophet. I know it seems unlikely to us, but it isn't as if Mormons have never thought about it. They aren't "dumb"."

I can honestly say that the thought never occurred to me or came up in church at all. I wouldn't say dumb, but naive.