Fair enough. It seems like I'm constantly pissing people off on this site. I guess I should chill out a bit.

So you're a comic? Are you in LA? Do you have any of your stuff online?

-dft

-

In reply to this comment by ercell22:
Pax,

I didn't see your response until just now. I guess I was too busy getting shot down from your friends and supporters. lol. First off, obviously I do not think you are a Klan member, that was uncalled for and I do apologize for making that reference. I do now see the irony in that statement, however, as an "outsider" looking in (which is exactly what I am) it did offend me. I do not know you and how your humor works and since the post WAS serious and WAS very offensive, when I read your comment I was like, WTF??

I am not overly sensitive and I CAN take a joke... Duh.. Jokes and humor are what keep my rent and bills paid. (Not to mention the loads of groceries I purchase) I understand YOUR point and I respect and completely AGREE. I just didn't think it was the best way to express it. However, I am pretty sure he HAS experienced the racism he was spitting. This does NOT justify any of the hate that was coming out of his mouth, not one bit. But sadly, sometimes people tend to spit out the hurt they have experienced. Its NOT a justification, but its a sad fact. He was wrong. There was NOTHING right about what he said, period. I just felt your comment wasn't appropriate in that context.
Its my opinion.

Race relations are such a tough line to attempt to cross. Open dialogue is the source to at least having an open playing field where all of us can express and connect and learn to appreciate and understand each other. I guess I didn't feel that statement was the most welcoming way to start one. However, if my "crying and babying" as many are making my response to be, has potentially started one, good. I have no problem if people want to call me stupid and say I am "wank wank wanking." I do however, have a problem when I offend someone, and I am sorry for making my rant specifically directed to you in a negative way.

Enjoy your day.
Ercell.

In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
Hey, sorry about my last comment. I was pissed and shot off an angry note to you and bambrew.

I'm sorry you missed my meaning. I figured that using an archaic form of oppression as an example would make it clear that my comment was not meant to be taken literally. When was the last time you've heard of anyone getting sprayed by a fire hose?


I absolutely agree that racism is a huge problem, and it's frustrating to see a member of one of the most oppressed minority groups pick on a similarly oppressed group. Where is the empathy? It's just disheartening. A racist sees this video and says to himself "See, they're racist too!" as if to justify his own prejudice.

I think the racism that is the biggest threat is the internalized racism, the type of racism we don't see in ourselves, that later generations will see more clearly.

Anyway, I happy to discuss this with you if you like. No harm intended.

PAX

In reply to this comment by ercell22:
I like the fact that in an attempt to shame this man for being "racist", Dystopianfuturetoday suggests he should be sprayed with a fire-hose. If thats not the most ignorant racist this to say, I'm not sure what is?
This is why racism STILL is alive right now in 2008. Folks like Dystopianfuturetoday amaze me. You can hide behind a screen name online and say what you feel because you are protected and safe. If thats not the weakest way to express yourself I don't know what it. How are you, myself or anyone for that matter going to began to help heal the issues of racism when there are comments like that reflecting how something thinks, being posted?? However, with a statement like that, I am sure Dystopianfuturetoday does not want racism to change. I guess you are new generation Klan... traded in your sheets for a wonderful avitar. Or maybe its just laundry day. Happy MLK Day!

Pax,

I didn't see your response until just now. I guess I was too busy getting shot down from your friends and supporters. lol. First off, obviously I do not think you are a Klan member, that was uncalled for and I do apologize for making that reference. I do now see the irony in that statement, however, as an "outsider" looking in (which is exactly what I am) it did offend me. I do not know you and how your humor works and since the post WAS serious and WAS very offensive, when I read your comment I was like, WTF??

I am not overly sensitive and I CAN take a joke... Duh.. Jokes and humor are what keep my rent and bills paid. (Not to mention the loads of groceries I purchase) I understand YOUR point and I respect and completely AGREE. I just didn't think it was the best way to express it. However, I am pretty sure he HAS experienced the racism he was spitting. This does NOT justify any of the hate that was coming out of his mouth, not one bit. But sadly, sometimes people tend to spit out the hurt they have experienced. Its NOT a justification, but its a sad fact. He was wrong. There was NOTHING right about what he said, period. I just felt your comment wasn't appropriate in that context.
Its my opinion.

Race relations are such a tough line to attempt to cross. Open dialogue is the source to at least having an open playing field where all of us can express and connect and learn to appreciate and understand each other. I guess I didn't feel that statement was the most welcoming way to start one. However, if my "crying and babying" as many are making my response to be, has potentially started one, good. I have no problem if people want to call me stupid and say I am "wank wank wanking." I do however, have a problem when I offend someone, and I am sorry for making my rant specifically directed to you in a negative way.

Enjoy your day.
Ercell.

In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
Hey, sorry about my last comment. I was pissed and shot off an angry note to you and bambrew.

I'm sorry you missed my meaning. I figured that using an archaic form of oppression as an example would make it clear that my comment was not meant to be taken literally. When was the last time you've heard of anyone getting sprayed by a fire hose?


I absolutely agree that racism is a huge problem, and it's frustrating to see a member of one of the most oppressed minority groups pick on a similarly oppressed group. Where is the empathy? It's just disheartening. A racist sees this video and says to himself "See, they're racist too!" as if to justify his own prejudice.

I think the racism that is the biggest threat is the internalized racism, the type of racism we don't see in ourselves, that later generations will see more clearly.

Anyway, I happy to discuss this with you if you like. No harm intended.

PAX

In reply to this comment by ercell22:
I like the fact that in an attempt to shame this man for being "racist", Dystopianfuturetoday suggests he should be sprayed with a fire-hose. If thats not the most ignorant racist this to say, I'm not sure what is?
This is why racism STILL is alive right now in 2008. Folks like Dystopianfuturetoday amaze me. You can hide behind a screen name online and say what you feel because you are protected and safe. If thats not the weakest way to express yourself I don't know what it. How are you, myself or anyone for that matter going to began to help heal the issues of racism when there are comments like that reflecting how something thinks, being posted?? However, with a statement like that, I am sure Dystopianfuturetoday does not want racism to change. I guess you are new generation Klan... traded in your sheets for a wonderful avitar. Or maybe its just laundry day. Happy MLK Day!

Hey, sorry about my last comment. I was pissed and shot off an angry note to you and bambrew.

I'm sorry you missed my meaning. I figured that using an archaic form of oppression as an example would make it clear that my comment was not meant to be taken literally. When was the last time you've heard of anyone getting sprayed by a fire hose?


I absolutely agree that racism is a huge problem, and it's frustrating to see a member of one of the most oppressed minority groups pick on a similarly oppressed group. Where is the empathy? It's just disheartening. A racist sees this video and says to himself "See, they're racist too!" as if to justify his own prejudice.

I think the racism that is the biggest threat is the internalized racism, the type of racism we don't see in ourselves, that later generations will see more clearly.

Anyway, I happy to discuss this with you if you like. No harm intended.

PAX

In reply to this comment by ercell22:
I like the fact that in an attempt to shame this man for being "racist", Dystopianfuturetoday suggests he should be sprayed with a fire-hose. If thats not the most ignorant racist this to say, I'm not sure what is?
This is why racism STILL is alive right now in 2008. Folks like Dystopianfuturetoday amaze me. You can hide behind a screen name online and say what you feel because you are protected and safe. If thats not the weakest way to express yourself I don't know what it. How are you, myself or anyone for that matter going to began to help heal the issues of racism when there are comments like that reflecting how something thinks, being posted?? However, with a statement like that, I am sure Dystopianfuturetoday does not want racism to change. I guess you are new generation Klan... traded in your sheets for a wonderful avitar. Or maybe its just laundry day. Happy MLK Day!

I'm sorry anyone missed my meaning. I figured that using an archaic form of oppression as an example would make it clear that my comment was not to be taken literally. When was the last time you've heard of anyone getting sprayed by a fire hose?

I absolutely agree that racism is a huge problem, and it's frustrating to see a member of one of the most oppressed minority groups pick on a similarly oppressed group. Where is the empathy? It's just disheartening. This guy allows non-blacks to say "See, they're racist too!" in order to justify their own prejudice.

I think the racism that is the biggest threat (as I've spoke about at great length on this site) is the internalized racism, the type of racism we don't see in ourselves, that later generations will see more clearly.

Anyway, I happy to discuss this with anyone. No harm intended.

PAX

The sense of entitlement on this site is becoming unbearable. We all enjoy this site at Dag's pleasure and the 3 dollars a month we pay (if that) isn't enough to buy him a six pack of beer, let alone give us the right to tell him how to run his site. Dag has been pretty nice about it up until now, but the tone towards him is just way too aggressive. PAX

Fair enough. If not the big C, then what faith do you follow?


In reply to this comment by MINK:
ahh, now you said the word "christianity". different thing.

don't worry, i am not in any way flustered, it just sounds like that because discussing on the internet is quite clumsy.

it's anyway interesting to do it, but you don't really get anywhere.

so i am not angry or bitter, maybe more like tired.

you started this with "not to be rude" so i think you knew it was touchy territory! it's just so hard because neither of us know each other.




In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
Wooah! Easy there, MINK. I didn't attack you, let alone argue with you. I'm not trying to beat you down, prove you wrong or change your mind. This is just a regular ole conversation, so pull yourself together.

First of all, I didn't state or imply that Christianity was blissful ignorance, that came purely from your own imagination. The fact that those thoughts are hovering around your brainpan is probably significant.

I agree that language isn't sufficient to fully explain the euphoria of love, hate, fear, sadness, religion, music, dance, psychedelics, etc...... but that doesn't mean you should shut down communication altogether.

I'm not sure what the source of your anger and bitterness is (over-exposure to political propaganda would be my guess?) but having to trudge through your emotional minefield is no fun.

Take a deep breath and relax.....

We're not required to have all the answers....

It's OK to say 'I don't know'.....

There's room enough for everyone's ideas....

PAX

In reply to this comment by MINK:
defensive because you attacked, with your "isn't faith basically happy stupidity" argument.

faith isn't meaningless, your question was meaningless, or at least cannot be responded to meaningfully, because there's no way to describe faith satisfactorily to someone who's already decided it is happy stupidity.

Words are not good enough to debate this topic. They only work for science, not for feelings, emotions, spiritual concepts, music, love.

So if you are arguing science vs faith by using words, the science guys have a big advantage and the stuff the faith guys say sounds meaningless.

Anyway... interesting video here:
http://www.videosift.com/video/The-Science-of-Remote-Viewers-959

the second half is more interesting.

I am pretty sure science will catch up with god one day and find out that prayer and karma and belief and faith are tangible and important, and scientists will come up with new words for stuff that used to be "impossible" or "unscientific".

So i think we get closer to "proving" faith is sensible rather than "disproving" it as irrational and stupid.

Hope that makes some kinda sense, even though the meanings of the words are not exactly what i think.

Your attitude to the world changes your experience of the world. Having faith in something good can improve your experience of the world. Having faith in existing science is stupid because it will change. Having faith in the scientific method to one day discover everything is not stupid, i think the scientific method is ok. You just need to remember that we might only be 2% of the way on the journey of science, but theology and philosophy uncovered some powerful basic truths a long long time ago.




In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
Why so defensive? I wasn't going to whack you over the head with your answer. Is faith meaningless?



In reply to this comment by MINK:
that question is either loaded or meaningless.

Faith from a scientific standpoint is weak. Science from a faithful standpoint is weak.

Is that quantum enough for you?

In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
What does faith mean to you?

In reply to this comment by MINK:
some people have a willful lack of understanding of faith.

In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
/\ Not to be rude, but isn't faith - by its very definition - a willful lack of understanding.

In reply to this comment by MINK:
this dude rawks. notice how he has more confidence in his lack of understanding than they have in their faith.

b...b...b...but the bible was inspired by the holy spirit... or sumtin... so... you're like wrong i guess...!

ahh, now you said the word "christianity". different thing.

don't worry, i am not in any way flustered, it just sounds like that because discussing on the internet is quite clumsy.

it's anyway interesting to do it, but you don't really get anywhere.

so i am not angry or bitter, maybe more like tired.

you started this with "not to be rude" so i think you knew it was touchy territory! it's just so hard because neither of us know each other.




In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
Wooah! Easy there, MINK. I didn't attack you, let alone argue with you. I'm not trying to beat you down, prove you wrong or change your mind. This is just a regular ole conversation, so pull yourself together.

First of all, I didn't state or imply that Christianity was blissful ignorance, that came purely from your own imagination. The fact that those thoughts are hovering around your brainpan is probably significant.

I agree that language isn't sufficient to fully explain the euphoria of love, hate, fear, sadness, religion, music, dance, psychedelics, etc...... but that doesn't mean you should shut down communication altogether.

I'm not sure what the source of your anger and bitterness is (over-exposure to political propaganda would be my guess?) but having to trudge through your emotional minefield is no fun.

Take a deep breath and relax.....

We're not required to have all the answers....

It's OK to say 'I don't know'.....

There's room enough for everyone's ideas....

PAX

In reply to this comment by MINK:
defensive because you attacked, with your "isn't faith basically happy stupidity" argument.

faith isn't meaningless, your question was meaningless, or at least cannot be responded to meaningfully, because there's no way to describe faith satisfactorily to someone who's already decided it is happy stupidity.

Words are not good enough to debate this topic. They only work for science, not for feelings, emotions, spiritual concepts, music, love.

So if you are arguing science vs faith by using words, the science guys have a big advantage and the stuff the faith guys say sounds meaningless.

Anyway... interesting video here:
http://www.videosift.com/video/The-Science-of-Remote-Viewers-959

the second half is more interesting.

I am pretty sure science will catch up with god one day and find out that prayer and karma and belief and faith are tangible and important, and scientists will come up with new words for stuff that used to be "impossible" or "unscientific".

So i think we get closer to "proving" faith is sensible rather than "disproving" it as irrational and stupid.

Hope that makes some kinda sense, even though the meanings of the words are not exactly what i think.

Your attitude to the world changes your experience of the world. Having faith in something good can improve your experience of the world. Having faith in existing science is stupid because it will change. Having faith in the scientific method to one day discover everything is not stupid, i think the scientific method is ok. You just need to remember that we might only be 2% of the way on the journey of science, but theology and philosophy uncovered some powerful basic truths a long long time ago.




In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
Why so defensive? I wasn't going to whack you over the head with your answer. Is faith meaningless?



In reply to this comment by MINK:
that question is either loaded or meaningless.

Faith from a scientific standpoint is weak. Science from a faithful standpoint is weak.

Is that quantum enough for you?

In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
What does faith mean to you?

In reply to this comment by MINK:
some people have a willful lack of understanding of faith.

In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
/\ Not to be rude, but isn't faith - by its very definition - a willful lack of understanding.

In reply to this comment by MINK:
this dude rawks. notice how he has more confidence in his lack of understanding than they have in their faith.

b...b...b...but the bible was inspired by the holy spirit... or sumtin... so... you're like wrong i guess...!

Wooah! Easy there, MINK. I didn't attack you, let alone argue with you. I'm not trying to beat you down, prove you wrong or change your mind. This is just a regular ole conversation, so pull yourself together.

First of all, I didn't state or imply that Christianity was blissful ignorance, that came purely from your own imagination. The fact that those thoughts are hovering around your brainpan is probably significant.

I agree that language isn't sufficient to fully explain the euphoria of love, hate, fear, sadness, religion, music, dance, psychedelics, etc...... but that doesn't mean you should shut down communication altogether.

I'm not sure what the source of your anger and bitterness is (over-exposure to political propaganda would be my guess?) but having to trudge through your emotional minefield is no fun.

Take a deep breath and relax.....

We're not required to have all the answers....

It's OK to say 'I don't know'.....

There's room enough for everyone's ideas....

PAX

In reply to this comment by MINK:
defensive because you attacked, with your "isn't faith basically happy stupidity" argument.

faith isn't meaningless, your question was meaningless, or at least cannot be responded to meaningfully, because there's no way to describe faith satisfactorily to someone who's already decided it is happy stupidity.

Words are not good enough to debate this topic. They only work for science, not for feelings, emotions, spiritual concepts, music, love.

So if you are arguing science vs faith by using words, the science guys have a big advantage and the stuff the faith guys say sounds meaningless.

Anyway... interesting video here:
http://www.videosift.com/video/The-Science-of-Remote-Viewers-959

the second half is more interesting.

I am pretty sure science will catch up with god one day and find out that prayer and karma and belief and faith are tangible and important, and scientists will come up with new words for stuff that used to be "impossible" or "unscientific".

So i think we get closer to "proving" faith is sensible rather than "disproving" it as irrational and stupid.

Hope that makes some kinda sense, even though the meanings of the words are not exactly what i think.

Your attitude to the world changes your experience of the world. Having faith in something good can improve your experience of the world. Having faith in existing science is stupid because it will change. Having faith in the scientific method to one day discover everything is not stupid, i think the scientific method is ok. You just need to remember that we might only be 2% of the way on the journey of science, but theology and philosophy uncovered some powerful basic truths a long long time ago.




In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
Why so defensive? I wasn't going to whack you over the head with your answer. Is faith meaningless?



In reply to this comment by MINK:
that question is either loaded or meaningless.

Faith from a scientific standpoint is weak. Science from a faithful standpoint is weak.

Is that quantum enough for you?

In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
What does faith mean to you?

In reply to this comment by MINK:
some people have a willful lack of understanding of faith.

In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
/\ Not to be rude, but isn't faith - by its very definition - a willful lack of understanding.

In reply to this comment by MINK:
this dude rawks. notice how he has more confidence in his lack of understanding than they have in their faith.

b...b...b...but the bible was inspired by the holy spirit... or sumtin... so... you're like wrong i guess...!

I think he knows what movies he was in...

"Where you in American Beauty?
Superman Returns?
How about K-Pax?
The Usual Suspects?
I think you're wrong..."

There is nothing wrong with a little long term thinking Gunrock. Some of our previous efforts in 'regional stability' have resulted in the rise of Saddam and Osama and the deaths of many hundreds of thousands (probably a whole lot more) innocent civilians.

Short term goals are important, but without long term thinking, you get the disastrous FP of Reagan and Bush. (Google Reagan's relationship with Osama and Saddam for anyone in the dark on this.)

As an aside, Republicans are allowed to support world peace too you know. Just because the lefties say potato doesn't mean you have to say paTAHto (or would that be potatoe?).

Faux News has tried to label the left anti-war, but the reality of the matter is that most of us are merely anti-short-sighted-poorly-planned-war.

Revolutionary war? Sure. Civil? Had to do it. WW2? Natch. Vietnam? bzzzt. Nicaragua? No dead nuns for me thank you. Iraq? Not so much. Iran? It couldn't get much more short-sighted-poorly-planned than that.

pax

Oh - my - GOD! You've lost your mind and don't even know it!
Terra pax, oikenstein
May flights of angels sing thee to thy rest...

This very well done. I remember reading Salam Pax as the Iraq War was about to start and for a couple of months afterwards. He's very articulate, and very likable.

I was concerned for his safety then, and still am. It's good to see that he seems to be doing well though.

In the meantime you can watch it at CNN (with ads)
http://edition.cnn.com/CNNI/Programs/untoldstories/blog/2007/04/this-week-baghdad-blogger-salam-pax.html

lol. not nearly so much a swipe against the show as it is making fun of the squeaky clean PAX network.

During the time of Pax Brittanica, I don't remember arguments like these. They don't belong during Pax Americana either.