I should probably toss out (despite the fact I do not play this game) it was mentioned by a couple of reddit users when this was shown over there that his comparison is flawed because he is relying on replay theater to demonstrate the lag. The replay mode is inaccurate compared to actual gameplay due to keyframes probably being out of sync and the problems demonstrated may have not actually appeared as shown.

Still, this a good argument towards dedicated servers. In a P2P system the host has 0ms lag when someone else might have 150ms, and can make the difference between derp and killing someone.

Bone nobody complains about the fact the movies cost money (they do, Netflix charges you/month).

This is a small overlap of American lawmakers not going after Net Neutrality. While Netflix creates a lot of usage there are prices for everything on the net. WoW (or any MMO and ultimately every game) costs money, Videosift costs money, Amazon, Comcast, "x", "z", etc... We're already paying through the nose.

Your Grandma might disagree with the "fabricated" .63 cents if she knew how little ISPs pay in regards to bandwidth. It's a joke. What ISP doesn't already have a hard cap? Comcast (and before that, XMission) has always had a fairly high cap. Congestion on the large scale are from inept engineers and planners. If your area block should only have 35 users at 240 GB/month and it gets congested because they let 40 people into the block, that isn't "our" problem. It's poor management with bad design and engineering; no one wants to build infrastructure.

If it was solely P2P stuff I might agree, but your talking about paid, "doubly so", Internet usage fees. Guess where all the "extra" (money for Blizzard, Microsoft - for Gold & Zune, Netflix, and many, many, more) money goes. To the ISPs. Bandwidth IS dirt cheap for them and will continue to be the same as long as the tech goes up at "x^2".

The fault is entirely at the ISPs feet. If they don't innovate they find themselves not offering "the best product". Legislating away your problems is like the U.S. Congress and Senate.

Anyway... I said my two cents before, but these kind of moves are horrifically laughable when you know how fast you'd go "uncapped" and the bandwidth available (in our area, Salt Lake City, heavy fiber optic lines; which again I payed for as a taxpayer).

^BoneRemake:

EXACTLY. and your a jackass for asking for an explanation in public. p2p that stuff, not that reasons have to be given but if your are sincere in your question, this is no forum for it.
not in the mood for vs/siftbot retardation right now, twice I fucking quote and this stupid garbalygook shit comes up read between the coded lines for ANY clue as to wtf I am talking about.



Looking at the code, looks like a bunch of less than and greater than braces are being translated to printable characters rather than staying as markup. I notice this happens sometimes when someone uses smilies too.

>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:

Cause you either insulted that kids intelligence or honesty or both.
Like he's too stupid or deceitful to properly name his condition. = /
>> ^Gallowflak:
@<a rel="nofollow" href="http://videosift.com/member/ant" title="member since March 2nd, 2006" class="profilelink"><strong style="color: rgb(0, 136, 0);">ant and @<a rel="nofollow" href="http://videosift.com/member/BoneRemake" title="member since July 27th, 2009" class="profilelink">BoneRemake
Could I ask you guys why you downvoted that comment?



EXACTLY. and your a jackass for asking for an explanation in public. p2p that stuff, not that reasons have to be given but if your are sincere in your question, this is no forum for it.


* not in the mood for vs/siftbot retardation right now, twice I fucking quote and this stupid garbalygook shit comes up *

read between the coded lines for ANY clue as to wtf I am talking about.

>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:

Cause you either insulted that kids intelligence or honesty or both.
Like he's too stupid or deceitful to properly name his condition. = /
>> ^Gallowflak:
@<a rel="nofollow" href="http://videosift.com/member/ant" title="member since March 2nd, 2006" class="profilelink"><strong style="color: rgb(0, 136, 0);">ant and @<a rel="nofollow" href="http://videosift.com/member/BoneRemake" title="member since July 27th, 2009" class="profilelink">BoneRemake
Could I ask you guys why you downvoted that comment?



EXACTLY. and your a jackass for asking for an explanation in public. p2p that stuff, not that reasons have to be given but if your are sincere in your question, this is no forum for it.

>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:

Cause you either insulted that kids intelligence or honesty or both.
Like he's too stupid or deceitful to properly name his condition. = /
>> ^Gallowflak:
@<a rel="nofollow" href="http://videosift.com/member/ant" title="member since March 2nd, 2006" class="profilelink"><strong style="color: rgb(0, 136, 0);">ant and @<a rel="nofollow" href="http://videosift.com/member/BoneRemake" title="member since July 27th, 2009" class="profilelink">BoneRemake
Could I ask you guys why you downvoted that comment?



EXACTLY. and your a jackass for asking for an explanation in public. p2p that stuff, not that reasons have to be given but if your are sincere in your question, this is no forum for it.

>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:

Cause you either insulted that kids intelligence or honesty or both.
Like he's too stupid or deceitful to properly name his condition. = /
>> ^Gallowflak:
@<a rel="nofollow" href="http://videosift.com/member/ant" title="member since March 2nd, 2006" class="profilelink"><strong style="color: rgb(0, 136, 0);">ant and @<a rel="nofollow" href="http://videosift.com/member/BoneRemake" title="member since July 27th, 2009" class="profilelink">BoneRemake
Could I ask you guys why you downvoted that comment?



EXACTLY. and your a jackass for asking for an explanation in public. p2p that stuff, not that reasons have to be given but if your are sincere in your question, this is no forum for it.

@Matthu

There's quite a lot of advantages to them, let me list:

1 - Virtually latency free. It depends a lot on where you live but if you reside in say Australia, the average person has 0.5mbps to 1mbps upload if that. That is simply not something that can support 32, let alone the maximum 16 players in MW2. Where it does, you're looking at a ping of 100+, which makes the game feel noticeably imprecise and usually spiky. This is probably less of an issue on consoles since controllers are generally less responsive and lead to slower gameplay than with a mouse. If you don't believe me, google some youtube clips of a cross platform game and compare PC to console gameplay, it's really quite obvious. This is also likely why P2P matchmaking has always been fine on consoles.

2 - Competitive mods. The fact is MW1 was simply not balanced towards being a fair competitive game out of the box. Grenade launchers as an example are cheap, and not really counterable in any way shape or form. 3x nades, especially if used by a whole team and lobbed in particular locations for S&D makes the game Russian Roulette. That's not even getting into the atrocious gun balance or the ridiculousness of perks.

Even in MW1 which was comparatively pretty tame, in Team Deathmatch modes, easily 2/3, if not more of my kills would consistently be Air Strike/Chopper kills. The point is, IW made the game in the interest of appealing to the masses, making it easy to gain kills and generally allowing far too many ways to score cheap kills. MW2 took this 10 steps further. Which is why in the competitive scene on PC, MW2 is a shell of what MW1 was.

3 - Community - Like you said yourself, you can regularly play on the same server and get to know people over time. Without it, unless you /friend them straight away, there's a chance you'll never see them again.

As a game with good graphics, whiz-bang explosions and lots of action, honestly it delivers, but if you're looking for a game that rewards skill, and where half your deaths and kills weren't based on luck then you should really be looking elsewhere.

---

And yeah, like westy said in his usual incomprehensible way, it's hilarious to see Black Ops stealing ideas from PC.

Especially GunGame which as far as I know originated from a mod. You know, the feature they removed in MW2?

Oh sweet irony, which unfortunately will be lost on most.

Downvote for blatant misinformation. I'd go into more depth, but it looks like all my points have already been made above (probably because this post is four months old). One thing I will point out is that their "example" of a Net Neutrality issue was ridiculously weak -- I would point instead toward Comcast throttling P2P users down to nothing.

Sniff...this video reeks. It smells remarkably like a creationist "science" piece.

No mention of P2P networks? Broadcast censorship (however infuriating) is completely irrelevant to the discussion. I especially like the bit where their grudge against Al Gore is what prompted them to "dig deeper". Very classy.

No business is more secure and profitable than a monopoly. If you have the ways and means, why would you not want to make it impossible for anyone to challenge your position? It's fundamental strategy.

>> ^braindonut:
>> ^Arg:
Wow. That advice at the end to take your computer to the authorities if you discover that you've accidentally downloaded something, is sooo dangerous. Seriously, how do you imagine that conversation is going to end?

I disagree... If you happened to accidentally download something like that from P2P or random browsing, I think it would be your responsibility to report it ASAP. Maybe the situation will be uncomfortable to talk about and you may have to admit to being a pervy porn addict (aren't we all? ), but the end goal is to try to stop the circulation of child pornography, which is a noble cause. And I HIGHLY doubt you'd get yourself arrested or in trouble, unless they had evidence that showed you were actually involved in kiddie porn, rather than an accidental download.
There are real children involved in this kind of shit.. it's really serious, imo. It could be scary, cause of stories like this one, but I really think you gotta report it if you ever see it.


Erm, actually it's stories like this that lead me to make my original statement. Maybe things haven't got this bad yet in your part of the world.

>> ^Arg:
Wow. That advice at the end to take your computer to the authorities if you discover that you've accidentally downloaded something, is sooo dangerous. Seriously, how do you imagine that conversation is going to end?


I disagree... If you happened to accidentally download something like that from P2P or random browsing, I think it would be your responsibility to report it ASAP. Maybe the situation will be uncomfortable to talk about and you may have to admit to being a pervy porn addict (aren't we all? ), but the end goal is to try to stop the circulation of child pornography, which is a noble cause. And I HIGHLY doubt you'd get yourself arrested or in trouble, unless they had evidence that showed you were actually involved in kiddie porn, rather than an accidental download.

There are real children involved in this kind of shit.. it's really serious, imo. It could be scary, cause of stories like this one, but I really think you gotta report it if you ever see it.

i've been using usenet and p2p for years, i've been hit by the child porn fairy. I'm in a state of disbelief. every time i think our government can't get any lower, it proves me wrong.

the >> ^dannym3141:
I suppose he doesn't go into enough detail to cover the absolutely hemorrhaging catastrophic PC-multiplayer failure of this game.
It could have been the next big online "scene" thing, with big money involved. cod4 was kept alive in the online scene for a long time thanks to people modding the game and all the customisation really kept the game popular for a long time. It basically kept IW afloat, kept them in business, and allowed them to make mw2.
IW, in their infinite wisdom, thought that customisation and modding was theft and piracy. They decided that they could SELL people these updates rather than let the community make content for itself. As such, they removed dedicated servers - you play on a P2P system not too far off from the xbox/console style where your ping is always very high as you connect to another person's computer. You have to use the matching system which basically matches you with the lowest ping server in the style you request that it can find. This ensures heavy lag for a lot of people, moderate lag (over 100ping) as an average, and virtually unplayable for a few. When the map changes, they have a system of "migrating" you which basically tries to keep your experience uninterrupted but mostly disconnects you. One of the IW guys actually was quoted "I've been playing mostly with 100ms and that's just fine!"
They disallowed any kind of modding or customisation, instead opting to bring out DLC for the PC. This includes not allowing any kind of demo recording and there's no developer console.
Because of the P2P system, you are limited to a very small number of people playing in a server, meaning large battles aren't possible anymore because a person's pc (which is hosting the game live) just isn't usually capable of handling so many connections.
There's a shed load more. http://www.modernwarfail2.com/about/ . They really screwed up and shat all over the PC fans which basically kept the franchise alive and allowed IW to make a lot of money with this game. They did a direct port from console to PC not only because it was easy, but also because it allowed them to control the game rather than the community. Whilst console users are used to all the above complaints and have chastised PC users for their pickyness, PC users are used to much better things and the PC multiplayer of this game is abhorrent to them.
I think some people have made dedicated servers available by hacking the game, not sure though. All of this was true as of release date



the whole level system would make the game incopatable for proper dedocated server play , i think its fine as a console game , but they should have maby worked on the game for another 7 months doing a proper pc version esentauly as separate product.

basicly dice have got it right , look at the dice console games v the dice pc games (bf2,bf moder combat , bad company ) they do the same game but redesign aspects of it for each platform.


also the single player is utter shite its utterly pointless to play , its pretty much the same as the first one stupid bugs and bad level design + when they do good stuff they never capitalise on it I don't think infinity ward have muh of an idea about single player games design. but it seems that the majorty of people dont give a shit its like holywood films people just want to see shit blow up they don't care about anything evan slightly engaging on another level. whats more annoying is the game takes itself seriously if it took the piss out of itself to some exstent but its like infinity ward think its a war simulater.


all in all its a really good multi player console shooter game.

I suppose he doesn't go into enough detail to cover the absolutely hemorrhaging catastrophic PC-multiplayer failure of this game.

It could have been the next big online "scene" thing, with big money involved. cod4 was kept alive in the online scene for a long time thanks to people modding the game and all the customisation really kept the game popular for a long time. It basically kept IW afloat, kept them in business, and allowed them to make mw2.

IW, in their infinite wisdom, thought that customisation and modding was theft and piracy. They decided that they could SELL people these updates rather than let the community make content for itself. As such, they removed dedicated servers - you play on a P2P system not too far off from the xbox/console style where your ping is always very high as you connect to another person's computer. You have to use the matching system which basically matches you with the lowest ping server in the style you request that it can find. This ensures heavy lag for a lot of people, moderate lag (over 100ping) as an average, and virtually unplayable for a few. When the map changes, they have a system of "migrating" you which basically tries to keep your experience uninterrupted but mostly disconnects you. One of the IW guys actually was quoted "I've been playing mostly with 100ms and that's just fine!"

They disallowed any kind of modding or customisation, instead opting to bring out DLC for the PC. This includes not allowing any kind of demo recording and there's no developer console.

Because of the P2P system, you are limited to a very small number of people playing in a server, meaning large battles aren't possible anymore because a person's pc (which is hosting the game live) just isn't usually capable of handling so many connections.

There's a shed load more. http://www.modernwarfail2.com/about/ . They really screwed up and shat all over the PC fans which basically kept the franchise alive and allowed IW to make a lot of money with this game. They did a direct port from console to PC not only because it was easy, but also because it allowed them to control the game rather than the community. Whilst console users are used to all the above complaints and have chastised PC users for their pickyness, PC users are used to much better things and the PC multiplayer of this game is abhorrent to them.