search results matching tag: oil companies

» channel: learn

go advanced with your query
Search took 0.001 seconds

    Videos (33)     Sift Talk (3)     Blogs (2)     Comments (307)   

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

Exactly the non-answer know nothing twaddle I expect from you, even when you are warned against such stupid vapid nonsense that only indicates you have absolutely no clue what you’re talking about, as usual, and are just regurgitating propaganda as best you can, which is pretty damn bad because you clearly don’t understand it.

Prices will go up….by 1/1400 of one cent per gallon? Little boy, you are such a troll with nothing to say….and you’re undoubtedly wrong as usual.

In total under Biden 180 million barrels have been released, most over the summers when prices spike. Under 16 days worth over 730 days. In Oct he announced the final release…10-15 million barrels, through the end of the year. .8 - 1.2 days worth over 90 days. Barely over 1% of demand maximum. If you think that dramatically changes prices at the pump, you’re dumber that you sound….which is unbelievable.

Meanwhile, oil company profits have tripled from pre pandemic levels after a few oil companies had 2 bad quarters in 2019- 2020. They recovered their losses and then some in 2021, 2022 they raked America over the coals, intentionally creating shortages while their profits skyrocketed.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/wrapup-global-oil-giants-rake-massive-profits-third-quarter-2022-10-28/

Tapping the strategic petroleum reserve was never about lowering prices, it was about showing he was trying everything to lower them as they rose worldwide faster than in America. It was a political show to stop the Cons from claiming he was doing nothing as they blocked every legislative move he tried. It would never make a noticeable difference by itself.

What will happen to gas prices, I expect they’ll continue to fall precipitously like they have since June because 1) our supply has returned to close to normal and 2) we are in winter, when natural gas price rises and gasoline drops EVERY SINGLE YEAR. Duh.

The quality of your trolling has depreciated noticeably since your numerous political and financial losses piled up. What’s wrong? Are your handlers too busy preparing their defenses, and looking for new networks, to spoon feed you today’s fabricated Con positions?

bobknight33 said:

Biden is using the SPR which has lower prices. by stopping its use prices will go up.
There is no long dissertation needed. It is simple supply and demand -little man



So what do you think?
When the SPR is depleted or stopped being used what do you think will happen to gas prices?

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

Odd, the Trump unsupervised PPP “loans” that Cons all took advantage of, then had forgiven (the same rich people who fought against student loan forgiveness)….that has no impact I guess?

Yeah…the timeline says no, not really. The QE and handouts happened in 2020 and early 21 as Tesla was skyrocketing, not what made them crash. You are just blathering.
Remember, you 100% denied the insane unheard of level of QE Trump did had anything to do with inflation, proving you have 0 grasp of economics.
Pumping money into the system is the only guaranteed way to cause inflation, and Trump did it more than any other president in history. He saw it as a way to spend more off the books. In fact, it was an unapproved tax on every American in the form of massive inflation you simply blamed on Biden for years. Kind of hard to swallow your sudden realization that printing money hurts the economy when you absolutely denied it when your guy printed money….over 40% of all money ever printed was printed in 2020. Where was this bob in 2020? It’s true, the money printing by Trump and to a much lesser extent Biden increased inflation significantly…but that doesn’t account for Tesla crashing twice as bad as other car companies.

He’s correct, we will end the fossil fuel industry. Importantly he gave no timeline in your clip. Reality is under Biden oil and gas production is up….but refining capacity down. The only way he could directly effect that is nationalizing oil and gas companies and forcing them to lower their profit margins to pre pandemic levels.
Reality is you were simply lied to, again, we were not a net exporter of energy under Trump. Only during the summer, in winter we imported more than we shipped out in summer. Net importers.

https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news/articles/2022-12-19/u-s-poised-to-become-net-exporter-of-crude-oil-in-2023

Since you’ve been misled, you should understand Biden only halted NEW leases of federal oil fields until the companies that want them use the leases they already have. Oil companies want to buy the fields but not drill, creating more shortages and higher prices/profits. Biden insists they make use of the land already leased before locking out tens of millions more federal acres from exploitation by their competition or any other use.

We still export oil, and import it. Our refining capabilities went down under Trump when he ok’ed the sale of the biggest refinery in America to the Saudis and they instantly cut production. In 2020, our demand went down, but not below our production.

Oil companies lost a combined $76 billion over 2020, then made over $2 trillion profits 2021 and $4 trillion 2022. Utter bullshit it’s just making their losses back. An outright bold faced lie that relies on ignorance of any facts to be believed.

Trump ok’ed the murder of American citizens by the crown prince, bragged about protecting him from murder charges. Trump gave the Saudis top secret information about dissidents in their country which they paid son in law Kushner $2 billion for then murdered them. These included people working for America.
Trump also sold the Saudis our refining capabilities without which them being pissed would make no difference if we were actually a net exporter (we aren’t, never were) and still owned our infrastructure (we don’t), the evil murderous Saudis would have no leverage at all. Duh.

bobknight33 said:

QE Quantitative Easing
helicopter $ All those Gov Checks that kept people home.

Gas policy. Biden want to kill the oil industry. Transition to cleaner forms of energy is great but you can't just switch off our dependency of oil.



https://youtu.be/PIbrBk9b1Hg

https://youtu.be/Dtf4Q_qzx44


under Trump we were a net exporter of oil. Now we need to import.
oil companies are reporting record breaking profits. But it follows pandemic-fueled losses.
Biden pissed the Saudis over the assassination of the dissident journalist Jamal Khashoggi so they say no oil for you, Joe..

When the SPR is depleted or stopped being used what do you think will happen to gas prices?

newtboy (Member Profile)

bobknight33 says...

QE Quantitative Easing
helicopter $ All those Gov Checks that kept people home.

Gas policy. Biden want to kill the oil industry. Transition to cleaner forms of energy is great but you can't just switch off our dependency of oil.



https://youtu.be/PIbrBk9b1Hg

https://youtu.be/Dtf4Q_qzx44


under Trump we were a net exporter of oil. Now we need to import.
oil companies are reporting record breaking profits. But it follows pandemic-fueled losses.
Biden pissed the Saudis over the assassination of the dissident journalist Jamal Khashoggi so they say no oil for you, Joe..

When the SPR is depleted or stopped being used what do you think will happen to gas prices?

newtboy said:

Wow. Ok, we can agree that far about China policies. They went too far, and now too lax.

Well….1/2 off something overpriced by 10x isn’t great, that’s why PE ratio matters. I think 25 is super high, but by today’s standards it’s average. 90+ was insane.

You have blamed him for the economy, as if he didn’t inherit 2020’s remains, but I’m just glad you’re willing to share/spread blame. A good step. Kudos.
Don’t know what QE and helicopter $ is.

Supply chain issues are global. It’s hard to blame anyone for even a majority. IMO they have been getting better slowly from 2020….I’m not in manufacturing though.

Gas policy? Explain please. My understanding is gas/oil production is up under Biden….oil company profits certainly are. Analysis indicates their increased profit margins accounted for over 1/2 the increased prices. I’m glad I have some energy stocks in my portfolio.
Remember, Trump policy was to sell our refining capabilities to the Saudis, who then decreased production and increased prices.

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

Wow. Ok, we can agree that far about China policies. They went too far, and now too lax.

Well….1/2 off something overpriced by 10x isn’t great, that’s why PE ratio matters. I think 25 is super high, but by today’s standards it’s average. 90+ was insane.

You have blamed him for the economy, as if he didn’t inherit 2020’s remains, but I’m just glad you’re willing to share/spread blame. A good step. Kudos.
Don’t know what QE and helicopter $ is.

Supply chain issues are global. It’s hard to blame anyone for even a majority. IMO they have been getting better slowly from 2020….I’m not in manufacturing though.

Gas policy? Explain please. My understanding is gas/oil production is up under Biden….oil company profits certainly are. Analysis indicates their increased profit margins accounted for over 1/2 the increased prices. I’m glad I have some energy stocks in my portfolio.
Remember, Trump policy was to sell our refining capabilities to the Saudis, who then decreased production and increased prices.

bobknight33 said:

""""Wait….are you suddenly saying severe covid restrictions by China were lifesaving and absolutely the right thing? …and now that they’re lifting expect major disruptions and death? Who is this?"""""""

Communist welding doors shut and shutting down cities -- I dont agree what they have done over and over. They dont have a good vaccine and now all is lifted. My current issue is that this too will leak out and their variant will hit the globe.


Tesla at 300 at 200 is a good price 1/2 off of anything is a good price. Now we see 60 to 70% off and getting better.

This down turn will end and go back up. If not in recession, which I think we are by a slim definition - we will be in Q1 or Q2.


I didn't blame Biden for all of this. This started way before Biden. All the QE and all the helicopter $ Trump and Biden gave out. This is causing supply chain issue and probably see some deflation on some products.

Now the FED trying to pull that $ back out of the market,

Biden gas policies and all the spending does not help and causing inflation on some fronts. I just think that his policies are the straw that broke the camel back.

Chevron Ad

WmGn says...

Professional economist here (hence, perceived as right wing) who began studying economics due to concern about climate change (hence, perceived as left wing).

[1] The classic statement of when markets 'work' is the 'first fundamental theorem of welfare economics'.

[2] 'work' in this sense means 'leads to a Pareto-optimal outcome', which means an outcome in which no one can be made better off without making someone worse off. This is a low standard: an outcome in which I have everything is Pareto-optimal.

[3] the conditions for the welfare theorems are generally not satisfied in practice. Here, as alluded to in the ad, carbon emissions are 'externalities': if an oil company sells you gas, which you then use, both of you are better off, because you're assumed to have taken into account the effects of your exchange, and decided to proceed; other parties have not, so may be worse off.

[4] in general, failure of the welfare theorem conditions isn't enough to make the case for government intervention: the outcome may still be 'constrained' efficient - meaning that, given the inherent constraints in the problem (e.g. asymmetric information), the market outcome is Pareto efficient.

[5] again, even if it is, you may not like the particular constrained efficient outcome the market yields (e.g. I get everything).

[6] in the case of externalities, the theory is pretty well established - if we want efficient outcomes, we need to align the private and social costs. There are two basic market-based tools for doing that: quantity tools (e.g. carbon permits) and price tools (e.g. carbon taxes). Which performs better depends on the sort of market imperfections.

[7] obviously, we will never have a perfect estimate of the efficient price or quantity of carbon to emit in a given year. Equally obviously, to me at least, this is a classic case of an externality with a well developed body of theory pointing in the direction of some level of controls.

[8] in my experience: people familiar with the economic theory tend not to be 'pro-market' or 'anti-market': they tend to want to understand how the market can be used to deliver societal objectives and, when it can't, how to correct its imperfections.

Biden Approval WTF

newtboy says...

Are you really that ignorant? (That’s a rhetorical question, I know you are)
1) watch Argo. There were multiple attempted rescues, starting within days of the revolution.
2) read about Reagan who made a secret, illegal deal with the terroristic Iranians to not release the hostages until after the election to hurt Carter’s chances, then he later sold them weapons in another illegal deal to pay for another secret illegal war with the Contras. If a Democrat did anything near that, he/she would be (rightly) shot as a traitor if not legally then by some nut job….when Cons do it the anti American crimes are ignored and cons celebrate the treason.
3) Also read about the year+ of negotiations by Carter that actually gained their freedom on Jan 20 81. Would have been much sooner without Republican interference. Carter was the one who initially “held” (seized) those $8 billion of Iranian funds, and stopped buying Iranian oil costing them billions more…all legally, unlike the sneaky, illegal, back room collusion with and payoffs to the terrorists Reagan tried, knowingly and intentionally extending the hostage crisis for his personal political gains. The “deal” wasn’t struck on Jan 20…the Iranians delayed the release at Reagan’s request in exchange for promises of special treatment from president Reagan.

Like Biden, Carter actually solved a problem created largely by Republicans despite Republicans doing their utmost to work against America. Gas prices dropped nearly 10% in the last month and continue to drop despite a massive shortage world wide thanks to Russia and Saudi Arabia. Republicans have fought against every effort to lower them, voting against all mitigation efforts in a unified “fuck your gas prices” block.
They even voted against a bill to force oil companies to stop price gouging because it would have dropped prices significantly the day it passed, also helping inflation significantly, and cons REALLY don’t want prices to drop under Biden, certainly not before November.
It’s just like when every Con just voted to protect and keep neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and violent extremists in the military and federal police forces because they don’t want their voters to lose their jobs. Keeping their power is far more important to them than helping the country, and their main methodology is to try to hurt the country then blame the president….odd since they excused the former president from any and all responsibility for his lack of leadership and absolute horrific disaster that was his last year in office, from 1 million dead to -3.5% GDP to millions unemployed to rising inflation to supply chain failures to disastrously ruining the reputation of our elections to dividing the country horrifically to actually trying to overthrow the elected government by force…all for his own personal gain….and you whine that Biden hasn’t fixed everything yet!?

Pretty dishonest for Republicans to do everything in their power to stop any attempted plans on inflation, gas prices, or hostile foreign powers, then blame the president they blocked from fixing the issues they caused. It’s not weak leadership, it’s an anti American party with veto power and a chip on their shoulders willing to hurt the entire nation rather than let Biden (and America) have a “win”.

Now…how did Trump handle it when foreign powers kidnapped and dismembered an American? He covered it up, made excuses, declared the Saudi prince innocent (and Trump was recorded laughing about how he “saved his ass” over that murder)….then his son in law was given a $2 billion payment for future services his company was completely incapable of supplying.

So let’s measure Trump….
Nice guy, no. Moral, no. Ethical, no. Honest, no. Smart, no. Loyal, no. Trustworthy, no.
Fickle to the utmost, yes. Weak leader, yes. Treasonous, yes. Dictatorial, yes. Narcissistic, yes. Criminal, yes. Anti-democracy, yes.
Most American deaths-yes. Worst unemployment, yes. Worst economy, yes. Most domestic terrorism, yes.
Worst president ever by far….unequivocally by every measure. He actually made idiotic GW look benign by comparison.

bobknight33 said:

Nice guy, yes
Moral, yes


Weak leader, yes

He failed to get out hostages. I believe 52+ week
He did tried and mission failed. Mission mishap - 6 dead
Finally on his last day, last hours negotiated agreement that included 8 billion bucks of held money.
This issue had a looming cloud over his presidency.

Like Joe Biden>
Failed to control inflation
Failed to do much about gas prices.

Biden and the June job reports

newtboy says...

Noooo….you still don’t like Biden. You still think self serving narcissistic Trump was a leader, but a lifelong frugal public servant isn’t. Nooooo! (I know there’s no breaking through your fantasy, bob. You are a lost cause, totally divorced from reality and totally uninterested in honesty).

No bob, I mean the Union…as in the United States of America. As in the Union vs the Confederacy. Trump nearly dissolved the Union, so much that Republican platforms now include secession as their goal. Derp. Another “L” for your column. Another dunce cap for your collection.
Republicans want to erase America out of infantile spite, but have no idea what to do afterwards. Better learn Chinese or Russian, red states can’t afford to defend themselves, you are all welfare queen states with the highest murder and crime rates.

Side note: But, this means you are anti union, so 100% anti worker? Really? What favors has Biden handed unions? Most unions (all you oppose) lobby for workers, blue collar employees. You would limit lobbiests to to those lobbying for billionaires and huge corporations (including religious corporations) that actively lobby against workers rights, pay, safety, ecological responsibility, hours, etc. Think about that.

You fucking moron, it went from 3.08% (higher than Trump ever reached) in 2015 under Obama to -3.5% in 2020 (the lowest ever in history). Who the fuck told you .2%? Who told you Trump left it at 2.5%? Overall Obama’s growth rate was actually 50% higher than Trump’s, and Obama inherited a deep recession, Trump inherited a boom. They outright lied to you, and you just lapped it up without ever looking. They’re feeding you poo pie bob, not chocolate. I really wish I didn’t have to spend so much time correcting your obviously fabricated statistics, especially since you only spout them to force a correction, getting you attention, not because you believe or even understand them. So you understand, printing 50% more money while your economy is in the worst contraction ever causes inflation, and that’s what Trump did in 2020 while focusing on the election he lost in a landslide and ignoring the pandemic and economy.

Jobs?!? Obama job growth was near 8% adding 12.5 million jobs, Trump was the only president ever to lose jobs, losing 3.2 million. Another 100% break from reality, buddy. I’m telling you, you need professional help.

Yes, Trump did turn us around, from a massive recovery and booming economy to massive economic losses, job losses, absolutely insane deficits and trying to double the debt, huge money printing in 2020 (magic wand waiving) that creates massive inflation (that he now blames Biden for), undreamed of losses of life, and teetering on the brink of depression and pandemic. He made us madder. For libs that means angry, for cons that means totally bat shit crazy with no ties to reality at all.

Far from it, lots of positive, but so much negative left from the previous one we are still in the red.

They have made policies that help the American pocketbook, Trump robbed it blind to hand to billionaires (and fake billionaires).

Who told you that lie. The Democrats have done everything they legally can to force oil companies to increase production and stop price gouging, Republicans all voted against doing anything, then claim “Biden’s fault”. No fossil fuel production has been cut. You’ve been lied to, and you aren’t intellectually honest enough to investigate for yourself…you don’t want to hear the truth.

Republicans are to blame for high fuel prices, Democrats are responsible for the recent lowering. Democrats are making efforts to lower them further, Republicans are 100% opposed to any actions.

Trump benefited on fuel costs thanks to the economic collapse he caused by denying and ignoring Covid for months, dropping the demand for fuel to nothing…not a good policy overall, or do you suggest killing another million and shutting down another year to lower gas prices?


Lol. You are claiming reports say the average American spends $500 more on fuel and goods per month than under Trump? What reports? Glen Beck, AON, or Rush Limbaugh’s ghost? Only if you are a trucker using hundreds of gallons of gas a month. Even in California, fuel cost has gone up less than 1/5 of what you say.

Trump cost you SO much more than $6k per year, over $60k per taxpayer on the official debt alone…and these extra expenses (probably $100-$200 per month tops) are thanks to Trump printing 1/3 of every dollar in circulation (inflation) and fuel supply and demand being out of hand intentionally because oil companies make more money by producing less, and aren’t nationalized so the government can’t force them to stop gouging.

Such nonsense bob. Your facts are all wrong, and since you won’t investigate you are just going to continue to believe the lies you were fed. The people you listen to are making money off your beliefs, bob, and they see you as a huge sucker they can convince of anything and get your money or support for their America destroying “get me richer quick” schemes.

🤦‍♂️

Summary, since I don’t think you can read that much.
Union = United States Union, not unions
Gdp- Obama 1.59% rising consistently during his presidency Trump 1% falling precipitously to the worst ever in history. Also never beat Obama’s high.
Jobs- Obama added 12.5 million, Trump lost 3.2 million
Debt- Obama added $9 trillion, ending a recession and creating a boom over 8 years. Trump added $8 trillion on the books (and trillions more off the books) in 4 years ending a boom and creating a recession
Deficit- 2020 was the biggest budget deficit ever by >200% at $3.13 trillion and added well over $4.2 trillion to the debt that year, way more than 2021 at a still horrific $2.7 budget deficit but ending adding only $1.5 to the debt.

https://www.thebalance.com/us-deficit-by-year-3306306

Oil/gas price - all cost cutting measures opposed by Cons.

bobknight33 said:

I applaud the jobs #

But when you say *quality leadership, -- You are Sadly mistaken .

Putting Union back together -- you mean political payback for all the $ spent buying Biden / Democrats that Biden is now paying back the unions in favors?

So you are saying that You are in favor of big business buying our politicians and getting special breaks using American tax dollars.

What Trump damage. Went from a 0.2% GDP growth /yr to 2.5 + Growth. Obama touted that this0.2% was the new norm and Trump claimed BS. Trump said he wold crate jobs and Obama dumbly said how by waving a magic wand.


Trump, for all his BS turned America around and mad all of us better.

A strong work force is the only positive news of this Admin.

Biden and Democrat policies can make policies that help the American pocketbook but wont.


This biggest is the party stance on oil. Americans are getting poorer mostly from this fact alone. The party decided to cut out fossil fuels and go green. This decision is costing families hundreds of dollars extra, that they don't have every month.

Not just from the extra at the pump but also the extra cost to deliver goods and services .



Current media reports that this extra cost is running about 500$/month 6K$/year.

This is you man Joe, and his party's policies?

I just assume to keep Trump , mean tweets and all, and keep the $6 grand / year in my pocket.

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

Hide and watch. Charges come after the investigation, not instead of. It’s hard to find specifics, but if sedition has a statute of limitations it’s at least 5 years, although prosecuting before 2024 would seem mandatory considering the charges….that’s still plenty of time to build an airtight case before prosecuting. 865 charged so far, many with sedition, and been convicted.

What about those pending charges for Clinton. I’m still waiting, it’s been years and years and years and you still say they’re coming, just wait. It’s only been 18 months since the failed coup.

I wouldn’t mind $10 a gal, because I don’t drive much, 50-100 miles a week max,and I’m happy for anything that stops idiots from rolling coal as a pastime.

You should be loving it because it builds demand for electric vehicles, your one investment, but since Tesla couldn’t meet demand beforehand, it can’t take advantage of the high demand so I get why you aren’t excited.

If only Democratic policies were what you claim, they would have nationalized oil companies and oil would be Venezuela cheap or at least there would be a profit cap, which would cut gas prices instantly…but neither is even a Democratic idea.

BTW- what do you blame the high gas prices in the rest of the world on, still Biden’s fault? Even in China? Why does super far left Venezuela have gas at near free £.018 per liter?

bobknight33 said:

And what criminal charges have come forth?

Nothing because its all BS, and you and your ilk are fools drinking it up.

How that $6/gal gas working for you and yours?
Democrat policies at work.

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

Average gas prices are temporarily $.06 higher than 2008. Oil prices are dropping fast. Oil companies aren’t pumping oil they have and aren’t near top production levels at refineries, but are complaining they can’t have more preserve land and offshore preserves to drill on.
You want to compare to 2020, and you want to ignore the absolute disaster of leadership that made the economy so bad that gas prices dropped significantly and oil went to -$40 a barrel at one point. You want to forget the -36% gdp and 750000 dead Americans, and between $10-16 TRILLION dollars in wasted money it took to have those lower gas prices (with no where to go because everything was closed, and nothing to buy because all supply chains were broken).
For a family of 4, the debt left by Trump’s Covid failures is well over $200000. How many tanks of gas would that have bought you?
Yes, I maintain my position that the pandemic response team global response unit could have likely identified and stopped Covid in the very early stages and evaded even an epidemic in China had they not been eradicated, and you can’t prove different. That puts it all on you know who’s shoulders.

BTW, liberal California is poised to rebate every taxpayer $400 to cover increased gas prices thanks to our functioning economy and budget surpluses.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7604733/

With all the Trump and Trumpist failures, I think it could be a total ass kicking BY Democrats. The shine is off the Trump penny, and everyone outside the cult can tell it’s just a blank slug painted copper…that includes many in your party, causing a deep divide for Democrats to exploit. Numerous Republican candidates are being challenged in court to bar them from public office for being part of an insurrection….including Trump in 6 states. Can’t win if you can’t hold office. D’oh!

Are you sad about duckduckgo? It seems your ilk are outraged that the platform has decided to limit (not even censure) Russian propaganda, moving it away from the top of their news feeds, and without their Russian propaganda spoon fed to them, they’ve started throwing tantrums and stomping away in search of a site that will tell them the lies they want to hear. Such infants. Are you one? Be honest. (Ha, like you would)

bobknight33 said:

You paying 20$ more for a tank of gas. That hurts millions of people.
I use a tank a week -

With all of Biden administrations failures you think mid turns will be be a total ass kicking of Democrats?

Jordan Klepper Takes On Canadian Truckers | The Daily Show

newtboy says...

If that’s your position I wont bother reading past sentence one.

It’s exactly the same as your other mistake, claiming a billion in goods delayed in transport is the same as a billion dollar loss.

Money not spent is not the same as money lost. It’s actual money lost vs potential expenditure delayed. It’s permanent actual jobs lost vs potential temporary construction delayed (the project as planned is cancelled, not the plan to build a pipeline SOMEWHERE, and spend a billion on it, just not through reservations and sensitive watersheds on the cheap.)

The auto manufacturers will never recoup the lost production, the oil company will build a pipeline. There are costs to delays/redesign, absolutely, but they aren’t 100% of the projected project costs or anywhere close.

Have a nice day. I’ve grown tired of the merry go round. I’m pretty sure we understand each other’s positions, and don’t see progress beyond that. You insist on not seeing similarities and differences I think are incontrovertible….like the idea that a blockade of a major city, closing it down for weeks +, is far more unacceptable and inconveniences exponentially more people and business than a blockade of a railroad out in the country, or of a pipeline on tribal land by the tribe.

bcglorf said:

@newtboy,

A company cancelling a multi-billion dollar project means multi-billion dollars not spent on the work of the project, that many jobs out of the economy. Exactly the same as a car manufacturer shutting down for a week, by your logic nothing was lost, the company just stopped spending money for a couple days...

I only support the groups right to protest, and not to illegally block roads or borders. I stand by my wish is for their prompt arrest when illegal blocking roads, borders or places of business.

That said, I believe it also wrong of me to fail to point out that our federal government has continually refused to act as I would wish in promptly shutting down illegal blockades. This is the very first instance were they've shown any interest in a prompt police enforced end, and they've in fact jump much further to invoking a declaration of national emergency so they can also target protesters bank accounts directly and without court orders.

An analogy would be someone that supports arresting people for possession of marijuana. The government then proceeds to only selectively enforce that law, say only acting to make arrests when people are a particular creed or color. It's perfectly consistent to believe the government arrests are wrong and unfair, and to NOT support them, while at the same time still believing the idea of the rule applied fairly being a good idea.

One side is about what I think the line for protest should be:
-I believe the right to protest should be independent of creed or belief, and should only be restricted when actions taken are illegal.(Ideally illegal being defined as impeding on freedoms of others)

By that, the convoy blockade of border or streets should have led to immediate arrests.

In the eye of fairness though, the last two years have already seen at a minimum 3 major protests, that included illegal blockades of work sites and railways and those were ALL allowed to run for weeks and in 2 cases months. The government of the day even tripped over themselves to message their support for the overall causes of the protestors.

In that light, it's wrong to simply ignore the fact that the first protest that is likely to vote conservative is the ONLY one where the government immediately condemns everything about them and feels compelled to intervene urgently.

Churches were literally burning last summer, and our PM's public statements spent most of their time sympathizing with the anger before pleading that burning churches isn't helpful. Where'd all that compassion for folks that you disagree with go when it meant a small number of downtown Ottawa business shutdown and horns honking go. Now our PM invokes terrorizing of the populace.

Trudeau's actions have been distressingly similar to Trump's as the division in our country grows, he's using his words to reach out to the extreme end of his side of the aisle, while tossing gasoline and vitriol onto his opposition. It's making things worse in the worst possible way when we need leaders uniting instead of stoking further division.

Jordan Klepper Takes On Canadian Truckers | The Daily Show

newtboy says...

I read it, nowhere did it give an estimate of what those protests cost, and it indicated there were multiple other routes for the oil to travel so didn’t even disrupt oil transportation completely, much less ALL commerce.
And it was about pipelines crossing their (or protected) land it seems, a far cry from the truckers. Yes, the validity and severity of your cause matters, just like the damage you do and to whom.

Billions worth of goods stuck temporarily…but no actual estimated cost for their delay, this cost billions in lost production and salaries that won’t be recovered.

That protest was targeted against the offending entity, not the populace. I have no issue with natives blockading their own land and preserves that feed those reservations against permanent destruction for some private profits. That’s a far cry from the truckers blockading the main border crossing for industry and tourism because they’re afraid to get a poke.

The numbers I saw were special. Hundreds of millions-billions lost (your billions in goods delayed doesn’t have a price tag). That was before the bridge was reopened. These protesters weren’t satisfied with that damage and continued to close your capitol with ever shifting demands. Since regular measures had failed, I support emergency measures, seizure, even forfeiture after trial, of any funds or tools used.

Perhaps they became only as localized (but certainly not as targeted, and localized in a city not the unpopulated country), but they had already done exponentially more damage and showed no sign of end or even demands.

Let’s ignore someone personally supporting a grass roots movement outside their country and control, please. I find it a red herring totally unconnected to how he governs.

Yes, some Floyd protests were more violent than the truckers, some weren’t, remember how they were all violently smashed, tear gassed, rubber bullets galore, run through with police trucks, unmarked vans pulling up and grabbing people crossing the streets, unmarked vans driving through towns full of police shooting tear gas at any moving body, etc? Don’t pretend the response is similar.
Also, the Floyd protests lasted a weekend in most cases (occupy Portland really wasn’t about Floyd) and went elsewhere the next march. They weren’t closing down one area for weeks intent on staying. Most lasted hours and were peaceful until police became violent, despite right wing media’s fear-mongering.

I think you’re stretching, putting on blinders, and doing insane mental gymnastics to pretend you believe that. From the actual damage caused, the idiotic reasoning behind it (quickly abandoned), the extremely uncanadianness of the self centered far right rally masquerading as protest, the international damage, the foreign involvement from planning to funding, these are unique “protests” in numerous ways.

Their idiotic beliefs are only one of many distinctions I’ve pointed out, and as I mentioned only color public opinion and the amount of patience they’re given by the public, not how the government treats them. It’s not at all honest for you to pretend that’s the entirety of my position…it’s very Bob of you, and has lost some of my respect.

Pipelines crossing sovereign territory or preserves = bad so blockading those areas to force pipeline movement = good….oil companies didn’t truck the oil out, they increased shipments from other areas by rail. Read the article you linked.

Native cultures and governments are different. Pretending an elected board for a reservation works for the people is naive in the extreme. Read about politics on reservations, who funds the people that get elected in most cases, what happens to opposing candidates…saying the board signed off while so many showed up to fight against it seems a bit at odds, no? Like maybe the board members were bribed, had ties with the oil industry, or other conflicts….just maybe?

And again, those protests didn’t cost a fraction what the truckers did from my research. Delaying delivery of a billion in goods isn’t the same as costing a billion in losses. Neither is delaying or cancelling a billion dollar project. Be adult please….don’t make such specious arguments ….please. They don’t slip by, and they make me think you are being disingenuous.

Jordan Klepper Takes On Canadian Truckers | The Daily Show

newtboy says...

The protests you mentioned didn’t halt commerce for huge swaths of your, and our country, did they? Severity and ubiquity of impacts matter.

Lemme ask you, did this protest ask for dialog, or outright refuse it?

None of the other protests intentionally caused as much collateral damage as possible. It’s not their cause, it’s their methodology and severity of the results.

It’s not about their cause du jure, it’s about their methods, causing economic damage as deep and widespread as possible. I’ll ask, did the other protests you mentioned try to shut the country down for their cause, or were they targeted against the industries/entities they were protesting?

I’m pretty certain that, had they not blocked freeways, border crossings, cities, and industries their protests wouldn’t be being broken up and protesters wouldn’t be arrested. Again, it’s not the why, it’s the how that’s an issue. Their methods aren’t the same as other tolerated protests in severity nor focus.

BUT…there is a significant difference, morally, ethically, and logically between protesting being murdered by police or protesting your last tiny bit of sovereign land or water sources being taken and permanently destroyed by oil companies, and protesting not getting a shot to have the privilege of traveling to another country. I’m far more prepared to be patient for life and death causes than ignorant inconvenience causes.

Edit: P.S. also, “fuck your feelings” goes both ways. These are the same people that took that stance for 4 years here (some still do). When you tell people “fuck your feelings” in response to any subject, any complaints, it’s pretty ridiculous to expect those same people to respect your feelings, especially while you honk a truck horn in their back yard all night for weeks. In my neighborhood, there would have been burning trucks night one, and peace night 2….but I’m a native Texan, kind of the opposite of a Canadian.

bcglorf said:

@newtboy,

I agree with more of what you say than you make out. You need to appreciate how different Canada is from the US, particularly in power balance within government and corresponding police action and media coverage.

Long delays in stopping illegal blockade and protest activity is the norm.
-Fairy Creek blockades persisted almost 12 months before police took action
-Blockade of Coastal Link pipepline went on for months before police intervened to allow work to continue.
-Mohawk solidarity blockade of railways in Ontario persisted multiple weeks

The difference to the protests today, the Liberal government was tripping over themselves to reach out to those protest groups, while immediately spitting in the faces of this one.

I've always been of the opinion illegally blocking a roadway, border or business should lead to arrests within the time it takes to notify and send police.

The problem here from a Canadian eye, is that the only time current government is interested in bringing a hammer down is based not upon the actions of protestors, but instead based upon their professed cause.

I refuse to accept tying the right to protest to what cause is being rallied to.

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

LMFAHS!!
That wall that cost billions, stole private property, broke dozens of environmental laws, fell in many many places, can be thwarted easily with a ladder, rope, angle grinder, truck, or climbing skills and hasn’t slowed illegal entries one whit? That wall? Ha! You’re funny.
Remaining in Mexico (as major targets for organized crime) during the lengthy asylum application (sometimes for years)….maybe you’re too ignorant to know that never stopped.
Regaining an energy independence that never existed? Um….yeah. We had a minor surplus last year, not because of more production but because the Trump recession and the Trump pandemic lowered demand to the point where oil producers were giving oil away for free. Yes, in summer we exported some oil, but never as much as we import in winter. This is another Trump lie you repeat without a thought and certainly without verification…because you still believe what he tells you despite everything he’s ever said being a blatant lie for his entire lifetime, multiple fraud convictions, being banned from charities because he stole from veterans and children,….the list of his crimes of moral turpitude is never ending.

Goo start….nice unintentional pun. (Sad you can’t help but fail at English even as you correct your original hilarious mistake).

Increasing our oil output is a goo start, but a god awful plan. It’s actually a non starter, Biden pushed oil companies to increase production for months, but they preferred high prices and high profits. They have millions of acres with drilling rights they don’t want to use because the profit margin is 5% lower and blame the fed for not giving them access to the last pristine national forests and reserves….so again I’ll ask you, nationalize oil? If you want to blame the government, they should have control, otherwise you’re just a whining baby crying over spilled milk and blaming the wrong people.

Requiring better fuel economy from vehicles and industry, phasing in electric vehicles and more green electricity production are actually GOOD starts, and what Biden is moving towards despite total opposition from Republicans on ANYTHING. That’s how you get actual energy independence….the only way in the long term.

bobknight33 said:

Returning to Trumps policies of building the wall, Remaining in Mexico and regaining our energy independence is a goo start.

Chuck Norris saves the environment

supervillain says...

This is propaganda from an oil company. Carbon capture technology is bullshit to distract you from thinking it is okay to continue drilling oil at a rate that will cause catastrophic harm from global warming. Solar, wind, nuclear, and battery powered electric vehicles are how we get off of our addiction to oil.

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

LMFAHS!!
Dicks are always dumb, just look at Trump, biggest dick (with the smallest misshapen penis) dumbest and worst president ever by far, that's why smarter people use their big head for thinking. You might try it someday.

Know nothing Don couldn't read a script, couldn't say English words, couldn't complete a thought. President Biden has him beat by an easy 40 IQ points, likely more. It would be no surprise at all to find that Biden's IQ is more than double dumb Donald's. Donald Trump dumb-dumb dumb-dumb, President Biden Smart, smart-smart 🎵
Take it from someone who DID graduate from middle school.

Derp.
I'm not paying any extra. California gas prices didn't go up because Trump left all critical infrastructure totally unprotected from cyber attacks because he doesn't understand computers at all....only the East coast got hosed by Russian hackers and oil companies who do the bare minimum of safeguards. You know them Sergei?

bobknight33 said:

Compared to dumb dick Joe it was excellent.

How do you like paying extra $20 30$ bucks to fill you car?



Send this Article to a Friend



Separate multiple emails with a comma (,); limit 5 recipients






Your email has been sent successfully!

Manage this Video in Your Playlists

Beggar's Canyon