$460 a week wouldn't guarantee you to get out of the slums in most of the overseas locations you mentioned (don't know about Canada). Pay rates are higher to compensate, but it does sound like you've got a reasonably good set-up!
In reply to this comment by RFlagg:
This. I would love to move from the Canton/Massillon, Ohio area, but being poor makes it very hard. The place I live now costs $460 a month. That is for a nice 2 bedroom town house with a generous communal back yard in a nice child friendly neighborhood with some of the best schools in the state. How many places in the country (heck the state) can you find housing in such a nice area so cheap? Even in areas that pay more it usually doesn't overcome the higher housing costs when you are stuck in minimum to a couple bucks above minimum pay range... ($12k to $18k locally a year)
None of the places I would like to relocate to can get in those price ranges and still be out of the slums... heck most of the places I've considered can't even get into slums for those prices (Austin, Silicon Valley area, Arcata, Portland, Seattle, Fort Collins, Denver are the main US ones). And moving out of the country to New Zealand, Iceland, the UK, Netherlands and even Canada, is impossible since an overly expensive Associates degree means you don't have the skills any of those places would give you immigration.
Add to the housing expense the high price of actually moving...

>> ^Lann:
There are sometimes situations that makes fucking moving impossible.

This. I would love to move from the Canton/Massillon, Ohio area, but being poor makes it very hard. The place I live now costs $460 a month. That is for a nice 2 bedroom town house with a generous communal back yard in a nice child friendly neighborhood with some of the best schools in the state. How many places in the country (heck the state) can you find housing in such a nice area so cheap? Even in areas that pay more it usually doesn't overcome the higher housing costs when you are stuck in minimum to a couple bucks above minimum pay range... ($12k to $18k locally a year)
None of the places I would like to relocate to can get in those price ranges and still be out of the slums... heck most of the places I've considered can't even get into slums for those prices (Austin, Silicon Valley area, Arcata, Portland, Seattle, Fort Collins, Denver are the main US ones). And moving out of the country to New Zealand, Iceland, the UK, Netherlands and even Canada, is impossible since an overly expensive Associates degree means you don't have the skills any of those places would give you immigration.
Add to the housing expense the high price of actually moving...

>> ^Lann:
There are sometimes situations that makes fucking moving impossible.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'room, pink, paint, posters, teenager, facebook, profile' to 'room, pink, paint, posters, teenager, facebook, profile, Dutch, Netherlands' - edited by messenger

[Netherlands] Epke Zonderland 7.900 8.633 0.00 16.533

Won the gold. I can see why!

>> ^Chaucer:

What was the score?

Suggested description:
German girls compete in the Indoor Cycling European Youth Championship at the Varenbeuk Sports Hall in Heerlen, Limburg, Netherlands in 2009

Tags for this video have been changed from 'unreal, stunt, two, women, ladies, chicks, gals, bikes, bicycles, ride, drive, together' to 'stunt, women, ladies, bikes, bicycles, ride, german, heerlen, netherlands' - edited by xxovercastxx

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

Very interesting, *quality video and discussion. I would say there is probably some under-reported aggression and violence in Japan- but in general a whole hell of a lot less than anywhere else I have lived. In 3.5 years there- never saw a fight, never saw any violence that I remember - there was one crazy guy who was running around yelling at people - but that's it. Violence by Yakuza does happen, but it seems aggrandised from films. I think Yakuza are mainly loan sharks, brothel owners and black marketeers.

For whatever reason, violence is baked into the US culture - tied in maybe with a rugged frontier individualist spirit. Americans love their guns. My family too. My dad always carried a nickel-plated '38 under his car seat, which he called his "merging assistance device".

>> ^legacy0100:

I would have to partly disagree on this one. I believe high density does attribute to more aggression. Dr. Frans de Waal points out that high density alone does not always lead to aggression, and that there are other factors that attribute to reconciliation and peaceful coexistence. This much I agree with. However, this should not be used to throw away the immense impact over population has on human aggression.
He gives several different examples, one including about the chimpanzees in tight confined space. I find his claims very hard to believe. Chimps get very frustrated and show abnormal, anti-social behavior when they are in a tight confined space for a long period of time. Their hairs fall out, they bite their own knuckles or even each other. They show aggression to inexperienced moms and to their babies. It could be that Dr. de Waal may be omitting some factors in here. The chimps he is referring to may be from a zoo where they are put in small confined space when it's time to goto sleep, but then are let out to a bigger enclosure where they can run and play. This may be a bad example, but we don't really know because he doesn't reveal the source of his data. Perhaps his research did confine the chimps to a tight space all throughout the experiment. If so, then the duration of dwelling in tight enclosure is a big factor, but he didn't cite anything about that either.
I also would like to point out that there's generally a lot less food intake and physical activity in urban Japanese society. Your typical Japanese sushi portions can testify for that, as well as various hikikomori symptoms people suffer in overly populated Japanese cities.
Dr. de Waal says there's less crime in Japan, but this simply isn't true. He is overly reliant on only the statistics reported by the government, and he isn't are of the deep rooted cultural practices that mask these aggressions to the outside world. Dr. De Waal never mentions about the various odd symptoms and personal sacrifice everyone must make in order to maintain the order there. Violence is everyday life in Japanese society, including the fairly well known presence of Yakuza. Japanese people often get bullied by the Yakuza, but they do not report these events because for one, they are afraid of retaliation, and two, Yakuza has deep rooted connections with the government. Yakuza usually do not engage anyone foreign simply because it would get the embassies involved, and they do cannot exert any influence in foreign lands. So they only stick to bullying Japanese people, and stay clear of foreigners. Even in high school physical violence is rampant. Students fight or bully each other all the time, but it is not seen as a crime, but merely 'part of growing up'. Nobody reports anything, so the crime data remains low.
Compare this with cities in Netherlands. It is highly populated, but enjoys abundance of resources thanks to laxed attitude toward drugs and sex, which are themselves ways to alleviate aggression. People in Netherlands are also very mobile because of their well developed transportation infrastructure including extensive bike lanes, roads and trains. They are also in close proximity to larger open areas in Germany or France where they regularly escape to thanks to their abundance in resource, while in Japan people are very much confined to their own living quarters and their workplace, who usually cannot afford to take frequent vacations due to high expectation from bosses as well as fierce competition towards promotion. Imagine regular US/UK office space antics times ten.
Overall I find Dr. de Waal's argument only partially credible and would like to look into his experiments and his citations before acknowledging this as fact.
I remember Dag and his wife saying they used to live in Japan. I would like to hear their opinion about this issue and Japanese society being used as proof to this theory.

I would have to partly disagree on this one. I believe high density does attribute to more aggression. Dr. Frans de Waal points out that high density alone does not always lead to aggression, and that there are other factors that attribute to reconciliation and peaceful coexistence. This much I agree with. However, this should not be used to throw away the immense impact over population has on human aggression.

He gives several different examples, one including about the chimpanzees in tight confined space. I find his claims very hard to believe. Chimps get very frustrated and show abnormal, anti-social behavior when they are in a tight confined space for a long period of time. Their hairs fall out, they bite their own knuckles or even each other. They show aggression to inexperienced moms and to their babies. It could be that Dr. de Waal may be omitting some factors in here. The chimps he is referring to may be from a zoo where they are put in small confined space when it's time to goto sleep, but then are let out to a bigger enclosure where they can run and play. This may be a bad example, but we don't really know because he doesn't reveal the source of his data. Perhaps his research did confine the chimps to a tight space all throughout the experiment. If so, then the duration of dwelling in tight enclosure is a big factor, but he didn't cite anything about that either.

I also would like to point out that there's generally a lot less food intake and physical activity in urban Japanese society. Your typical Japanese sushi portions can testify for that, as well as various hikikomori symptoms people suffer in overly populated Japanese cities.

Dr. de Waal says there's less crime in Japan, but this simply isn't true. He is overly reliant on only the statistics reported by the government, and he isn't are of the deep rooted cultural practices that mask these aggressions to the outside world. Dr. De Waal never mentions about the various odd symptoms and personal sacrifice everyone must make in order to maintain the order there. Violence is everyday life in Japanese society, including the fairly well known presence of Yakuza. Japanese people often get bullied by the Yakuza, but they do not report these events because for one, they are afraid of retaliation, and two, Yakuza has deep rooted connections with the government. Yakuza usually do not engage anyone foreign simply because it would get the embassies involved, and they do cannot exert any influence in foreign lands. So they only stick to bullying Japanese people, and stay clear of foreigners. Even in high school physical violence is rampant. Students fight or bully each other all the time, but it is not seen as a crime, but merely 'part of growing up'. Nobody reports anything, so the crime data remains low.

Compare this with cities in Netherlands. It is highly populated, but enjoys abundance of resources thanks to laxed attitude toward drugs and sex, which are themselves ways to alleviate aggression. People in Netherlands are also very mobile because of their well developed transportation infrastructure including extensive bike lanes, roads and trains. They are also in close proximity to larger open areas in Germany or France where they regularly escape to thanks to their abundance in resource, while in Japan people are very much confined to their own living quarters and their workplace, who usually cannot afford to take frequent vacations due to high expectation from bosses as well as fierce competition towards promotion. Imagine regular US/UK office space antics times ten.

Overall I find Dr. de Waal's argument only partially credible and would like to look into his experiments and his citations before acknowledging this as fact.

I remember Dag and his wife saying they used to live in Japan. I would like to hear their opinion about this issue and Japanese society being used as proof to this theory.

Having gone to public school, I can make two comments..one, children are cruel. two, there is an anti-gay sentiment that is pervasive there. It is really an anti-difference sentiment. People get bullied and humiliated just for things like having a speech impediment. I just read about a suicide of a boy who was driven over the edge because children were taunting him about his Dad being killed when he was 4 years old. So, you can't throw gay teen suicides into the lap of Christians, because while a few may be caused by anti-gay Christian bigotry, this isn't the main factor. It is tertiary the underlying issues of societal conditions, and risk factors inherent in the gay lifestyle. According to a study in the Netherlands, where homosexuality is generally accepted and tolerated, gay men are 8 times more likely to commit suicide than heterosexual men. If gay suicide is based on anti-gay Christian bigotry, why are the rates higher than the norm in one of the least Christian countries in Europe?

Christians should not be anti-gay, that's number one. That isn't what Jesus taught us about sin, and how we should treat people. Homosexuality isn't a sin apart from other sins. We're all sinners, and none of us are worthy of salvation. A christian deserves death and hell just as much as anyone else. It is only by Gods grace, which is unmerited favor, that we are saved. Jesus came to save sinners; that's why He died on the cross. He told us to love our neighbor as ourselves, and gays are our neighbors. So, this is how Christians should approach gays and homosexuality in general.

That doesn't mean we should not say it is a sin. It would not be loving to pretend it is not, or to even tacitly approve of that behavior. Love is being honest, and truthful with someone, so that they have the correct information to make a decision. If we were to lie and say God approves of sin, Christians would be guilty of the greater sin in Gods eyes. So, there is a certain way to approach this issue, which is love, tempered by the truth. Any Christian not doing so is not doing what Christ commanded us to.

One thing I remember from my trip to the Netherlands some years ago was how ubiquitous the bicycle was.

The Dutch do have fine derrieres.

*dead -- "This video contains content from RTL Netherlands, who has blocked it on copyright grounds..."

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It's an ad for extra large condoms...>> ^Babymech:

Mmmkay... What's with the subtext of the advertisement about black men being ignorant of/resentful towards condoms? Is this a particularly big problem in the netherlands now?

Thanks for the quality.
In reply to this comment by eric3579:
Very nice @<a rel="nofollow" href="http://videosift.com/member/cybrbeast" title="member since November 10th, 2006" class="profilelink">cybrbeast *quality video

Thanks for the promote.
In reply to this comment by kulpims:
*promote

>> ^curiousity:
Thank you for providing this example of your irrationality and intellectual dishonesty by, among other things, completely ignoring the counterpoints to the few studies I was able to get to.

I didn't ignore your counterpoints, I just took them in the balance of this comment of yours:

"Ha. I really have better things to do than continue this conversation that you've, obviously for a long time, been preparing for"

Since you had already dismissed me as unworthy of your time, I saw little reason to devote much of my time to responding to your points. And even if everything you said were true, which I do not concede, it still wouldn't be enough to overturn the general conclusion of homosexuality being harmful to the individual, community and society. The evidence from the Netherlands is particularly powerful as it shows that even in societies that are open to homosexuality, the risk factors are the same or even worse. I'll address your points:

gay party scene: please be specific..I can think of one study.

too old: if it has changed, please show the data

>> ^curiousity:
"Link below is from 2003. It clearly shows the need for STD and sex education in this country. If I was less educated and wasn't worried about getting a woman pregnant, I wouldn't worry about condoms either. It's not a hard concept, but one that I imagine you will easily dismiss because it undermines your argument."

Are homosexuals less educated on STDs and sex education? How else do you account for them being 63 percent of all new cases? Why are the statistics the same everywhere you look. Sex education can only do so much..many people know when they are engaging in risky behavior and do it anyway.

>> ^curiousity:
"A study from two cities in a southern state from 1994. I've included a quote for this study that, apparently, you overlooked: "Although a low response rate severely limits the interpretation of these data, they are justified by the absence of similar published data for both gays and lesbians living outside major metropolitan areas." (This data isn't very useful, but we don't have any other data so we should use it. Again, not a hard concept, but it undermines you conclusions... Ignore! Ignore!)"

Here is more data:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15838193

>> ^curiousity:
"I like how you didn't read all of those 134 words in the second link - "helps users escape internalized homophobia or other social stigmas." I also find it shocking that gay men in long-term, stable relationships are not constantly going to an STD testing clinic - Does this point make sense? You haven't been completely robbed of all logic, have you? If you want to be a little more honest with yourself and actually look at the studies, it is easy to see the gaps that undermines your jumping to validate your viewpoint."

I'm sure that some drug use may be based on their feelings of being persecuted, but if it's all based on discrimination then why are the usage rates the same in countries where homosexuality is practically institutionalized? I also wonder where personal responsibility ever comes into play? Do you think people can blame all of their behavior on environmental factors and not take any responsibility for their own choices? If I lose all of my money because of some dishonest bank and become homeless, does that mean I now have a right to steal? Or when I steal, am I not a criminal?

>> ^curiousity:
There is a classic false argument of saying that being intolerant of intolerance is actually intolerance. If you want to classify my refusal to allow your intolerant claims to stand unabated in that manner, so be it. I do apologize that I didn't make myself more clear about not thinking you were a homophobe, but the simple fact is that I look at people's actions and speech instead of why they say they are doing something. Your actions of condemnation are the same end result and that is what I meant to draw the parallel too, but I had to leave for work and unfortunately didn't make that point clearly.

How are my claims intolerant? I am not intolerant of anyone, I am intolerant of sin. There is a difference between judging someone as a person and judging their behavior. I am incapable of judging anyone, because I would only be a hypocrite, being equally guilty as they are, but I can tell if what they're doing is right or wrong. And yes, it is intolerant (by definition) to be intolerant of those who don't tolerate your position. You either welcome everyone to the table, including those who disagree with you, or you do exactly what you accuse them of doing to you.

>> ^curiousity:
It irks me that you dismiss what I say as trying to undermine only part of your evidence. (To be more honest, I think that irksome feeling is more tied into your utter refusal to address those points of contention… which was expected, but still frustrating.) I didn't have enough time to go through all of your provided evidence. I had to leave for work soon and while writing is lovely, it is a laborious action for me - it takes a while for me to write anything surpassing cursory. Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, is that I actually was reading and thinking about the studies. So while you were able to throw together quite a few apparently supporting studies for your viewpoint in an hour, I was much slower because I read those studies beyond the headline and skimming the abstract. Congratulations, you succeeded in becoming skillful on the quantity side... perhaps now it is time to focus on the quality side.

As I indicated, your post was dismissive..therefore I didn't spend much time on it. I appreciate the time you did spend but there was no indication you weren't interested in further dialogue.

>> ^curiousity:
Please in the future, respond after reading/viewing any evidence provided. This is similar to all the comments I see here asking you to actually watch the video before announcing that (shock!) what you thought was right was still right because you saw something that you disagree with in the first couple of minutes. If you don’t have the evidence or that evidence is something is the hazy distance of memory, just leave a comment that you need to refresh your memory on those resources. I completely understand this situation as I voraciously and nomadically spelunk into various intellectual subjects. On a semi-regular basis and depending on the subject, I will have to re-find that research that I faintly remember. I know that my writing style can come off as hyper-aggressive and be a little off-putting (especially when coupled how people have responded to you here on videosift.) I can only speak for myself, but if your response to my initial comment said simple that you had read it in some research long ago, that was hazy, and you needed to find those sources – this conversation could have went a very different route.

I'm open to a change in conversation. I am not super interested in arguing about statistics until kingdom come. I realize that they are not going to convince you of anything. I was just trying to support my statement. Since you feel that you understand some psychological motive about me that underlies my behavior, what do you think that is exactly? I can tell you that I do sincerely feel love for all people, even those who openly hate me. Mind you, sometimes I fail to show it, or even show the opposite..but that is something the Lord is helping me with. Some people are harder to love than others, but I see them all as being in the image of God and worthy of my love and respect. I can honestly say that have no predisposition against homosexuals, but you feel I do; so tell me why.

>> ^curiousity:

>> ^shinyblurry: