Not if you excuse the invasion and takeover because they were DUE reparations, or even because they were fleeing the Nazis. I think reparations were due….by Germany, not Palestine.
Palestine paid them…and continues to pay them today.
It’s not feasible today, but it was directly after WW2, and that’s what we should have supported, even enforced.

Do you deny a massive influx of Jewish illegal immigrants invited by those who had been generously granted asylum? Do you deny they had the intent to take the land by force for a Jewish state? Do you deny most came after the war ended so weren’t fleeing war or Nazis? If not, where’s the disagreement? If so, citations please.

If they came illegally, absolutely, I object. If they came secretly intending to take the land of their benefactors by force, absolutely, I object. It was mostly in the later 40’s btw, largely AFTER the war ended. They weren’t fleeing Nazi persecution then.
Yes, when you come against the wishes of the local government intending to depose it, install your own, and expel the natives, that’s called invasion. That’s their history.

If I invite a refugee to live in my yard, and they invite their family, neighbors, and groups of armed militants who steal my house, land, and property and put me on skid roe, and the police turn a blind eye, even supporting the squatters because they’ve had it hard lately, do you think I have a right to get my friends to try to remove them, even if I wasn’t prepared to fight to the death unarmed and alone against their mob? If I do, do you still call me the aggressor? Come on. Don’t ignore the primary original crime that precipitated 70 years of atrocities.

Israel declared war by becoming a state by stealing one. I find it bullshit to blame the Palestinians neighbors for supporting their neighbor against a massive invasion and land grab by foreigners. Again, like Mexicans taking Texas back and you complaining if we tried to keep it, especially if we asked our Allie’s for help. Utter nonsense.

The Jewish people had already invaded and expelled the natives, removing all rights from any remaining. The two state solution = just go ahead and keep Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado, and Utah because there’s already illegal immigrants there, in a few years you can have Kansas and Nevada, then keep expanding….those people are currently in Texas at this time. Again, you ignore the invasion, land theft, and expulsion to pretend Israel was already there…nonsense again.

Yes, it took more force to keep it from the armies of the allies of Palestine than it did to steal it from the recently liberated colony of Palestine that had no military. Duh.

What I see differently is I don’t ignore or forget the violent forced invasion by the Jewish zionists, nor the expulsion, theft from, and dehumanization of the natives, I don’t blame the natives for attempting to regain their ancestral home or properties that the Jewish state outright stole, nor do I ignore the horrific conditions those same people and their descendants have lived under for 70 years, constantly invaded further, no travel allowed, no imports, no water, no medicine, no weapons but treated like the aggressors and the criminal invaders for attempting to fight for THEIR OWN LAND, kept in shrinking ghettos, treated as sub humans to be exterminated, exactly what the Nazis did to the Jews but on a national level.

Not what I meant…because it was promised by the British long before WW2…as if it was really theirs to gift. Then they half assed the handoff and just walked away, at least that’s my take. It wasn’t handed to anyone as reparations…I know that.

The Palestinians have bled for that land at least 10 fold the amount Israeli have….just sayin.

I meant in a practical and ethical sense it would have made more sense for them to take part of Germany as actual reparations.

What I mean is the military equipment and funding we gifted them, and continue to gift them, without which they would have been destroyed in the 50’s.

Yes, in the 50’s through 80’s the Arab world was an obstacle to peace at least as much as Israel, but not so much recently….Iran being the main exception. The fact that the Arab world is at least 3 generations of military equipment behind means they aren’t a serious threat and haven’t been since America started defending them in the 50’s.

When they, as a people, invade a recently sovereign land and take it by force, then brutally subjugate the natives in the name of their safety for decades while expanding into their last remaining holdings constantly, all the while playing the victim, I’m 100% prepared to say the Jewish invaders are the bad guys….that’s anyone not granted refugee status by the Palestinians….likely over 99%. The refugees that didn’t take part in the violent bloody nation grab and subjugation and who went back home I do not blame.
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@bcglorf

I only mention the illegal status of the invading Jewish masses in the 40’s because they would deny it. I’ve heard many a person claim all Jewish people there were legal immigrants and legal refugees invited in by Palestinians, but the vast majority came after the war ended…illegally….intent on taking over the country and expelling the natives.

Coming as refugees intending to return “home” would have been fine for everyone, but they didn’t want to try that….it wouldn’t end with a Jewish state.

I’m only anti Zionist because they don’t play fair. Because they claim absolute rights to others land, heritage, water, defense, even lives, then act self righteous about their Nazi like behavior and deny any obvious parallels. I find intolerable the one sided “conflict” where rocks or fireworks are met with bullets and bombs under the excuse that “we have the right to defend ourselves”, where well under 10000 Israeli have died but over 65000 Palestinians have been killed directly not counting the millions who died of disease, malnourishment, lack of water, lack of medicine, etc. from the treatment they received from Israel.
I really dislike the situation because my country involved itself and CAUSED it….without our intervention Israel would have ceased to exist in the 50’s, and it sickens me that my country pays for a genocidal racist nation to continue to exist.

I believe the Jewish state should have been carved out of Germany. I would not complain with them returning the treatment they received from actual Nazis…it’s treating relatively innocent victims like that simply because they can that’s unconscionable.

My gripe is totally about their collective actions, not their genetics or religion. That’s the important difference between my reasoning and the right’s hatred of non white immigrants.

Yes. Humor is an asset to all peoples. Even the Native Americans had their versions of Noah, Colbert, Kimmel, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heyoka

Russell had a fav quote...

The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.

BUT this quote is more pertinent regarding today's environment...

The first step in a fascist movement is the combination under an energetic leader of a number of men who possess more than the average share of leisure, brutality, and stupidity. The next step is to fascinate fools and muzzle the intelligent, by emotional excitement on the one hand and terrorism on the other.

I read it, nowhere did it give an estimate of what those protests cost, and it indicated there were multiple other routes for the oil to travel so didn’t even disrupt oil transportation completely, much less ALL commerce.
And it was about pipelines crossing their (or protected) land it seems, a far cry from the truckers. Yes, the validity and severity of your cause matters, just like the damage you do and to whom.

Billions worth of goods stuck temporarily…but no actual estimated cost for their delay, this cost billions in lost production and salaries that won’t be recovered.

That protest was targeted against the offending entity, not the populace. I have no issue with natives blockading their own land and preserves that feed those reservations against permanent destruction for some private profits. That’s a far cry from the truckers blockading the main border crossing for industry and tourism because they’re afraid to get a poke.

The numbers I saw were special. Hundreds of millions-billions lost (your billions in goods delayed doesn’t have a price tag). That was before the bridge was reopened. These protesters weren’t satisfied with that damage and continued to close your capitol with ever shifting demands. Since regular measures had failed, I support emergency measures, seizure, even forfeiture after trial, of any funds or tools used.

Perhaps they became only as localized (but certainly not as targeted, and localized in a city not the unpopulated country), but they had already done exponentially more damage and showed no sign of end or even demands.

Let’s ignore someone personally supporting a grass roots movement outside their country and control, please. I find it a red herring totally unconnected to how he governs.

Yes, some Floyd protests were more violent than the truckers, some weren’t, remember how they were all violently smashed, tear gassed, rubber bullets galore, run through with police trucks, unmarked vans pulling up and grabbing people crossing the streets, unmarked vans driving through towns full of police shooting tear gas at any moving body, etc? Don’t pretend the response is similar.
Also, the Floyd protests lasted a weekend in most cases (occupy Portland really wasn’t about Floyd) and went elsewhere the next march. They weren’t closing down one area for weeks intent on staying. Most lasted hours and were peaceful until police became violent, despite right wing media’s fear-mongering.

I think you’re stretching, putting on blinders, and doing insane mental gymnastics to pretend you believe that. From the actual damage caused, the idiotic reasoning behind it (quickly abandoned), the extremely uncanadianness of the self centered far right rally masquerading as protest, the international damage, the foreign involvement from planning to funding, these are unique “protests” in numerous ways.

Their idiotic beliefs are only one of many distinctions I’ve pointed out, and as I mentioned only color public opinion and the amount of patience they’re given by the public, not how the government treats them. It’s not at all honest for you to pretend that’s the entirety of my position…it’s very Bob of you, and has lost some of my respect.

Pipelines crossing sovereign territory or preserves = bad so blockading those areas to force pipeline movement = good….oil companies didn’t truck the oil out, they increased shipments from other areas by rail. Read the article you linked.

Native cultures and governments are different. Pretending an elected board for a reservation works for the people is naive in the extreme. Read about politics on reservations, who funds the people that get elected in most cases, what happens to opposing candidates…saying the board signed off while so many showed up to fight against it seems a bit at odds, no? Like maybe the board members were bribed, had ties with the oil industry, or other conflicts….just maybe?

And again, those protests didn’t cost a fraction what the truckers did from my research. Delaying delivery of a billion in goods isn’t the same as costing a billion in losses. Neither is delaying or cancelling a billion dollar project. Be adult please….don’t make such specious arguments ….please. They don’t slip by, and they make me think you are being disingenuous.

The protests you mentioned didn’t halt commerce for huge swaths of your, and our country, did they? Severity and ubiquity of impacts matter.

Lemme ask you, did this protest ask for dialog, or outright refuse it?

None of the other protests intentionally caused as much collateral damage as possible. It’s not their cause, it’s their methodology and severity of the results.

It’s not about their cause du jure, it’s about their methods, causing economic damage as deep and widespread as possible. I’ll ask, did the other protests you mentioned try to shut the country down for their cause, or were they targeted against the industries/entities they were protesting?

I’m pretty certain that, had they not blocked freeways, border crossings, cities, and industries their protests wouldn’t be being broken up and protesters wouldn’t be arrested. Again, it’s not the why, it’s the how that’s an issue. Their methods aren’t the same as other tolerated protests in severity nor focus.

BUT…there is a significant difference, morally, ethically, and logically between protesting being murdered by police or protesting your last tiny bit of sovereign land or water sources being taken and permanently destroyed by oil companies, and protesting not getting a shot to have the privilege of traveling to another country. I’m far more prepared to be patient for life and death causes than ignorant inconvenience causes.

Edit: P.S. also, “fuck your feelings” goes both ways. These are the same people that took that stance for 4 years here (some still do). When you tell people “fuck your feelings” in response to any subject, any complaints, it’s pretty ridiculous to expect those same people to respect your feelings, especially while you honk a truck horn in their back yard all night for weeks. In my neighborhood, there would have been burning trucks night one, and peace night 2….but I’m a native Texan, kind of the opposite of a Canadian.

90%? You underestimate by 9.99% IMO.

I’ve seen assaults. I’ve seen disturbing the peace in residential neighborhoods 24/7 for weeks on end. I’ve seen what amounts to kidnapping (trapping people in their cars on the street and blockading them in).
BTW, we aren’t India, more money was lost at this one crossing than if you blockaded all of India for the same timeframe. In America, we don’t just let other people block our borders….that’s our thing!

No, the bridge was not part of a recent past long term blockade, no farmer blockade shut down auto manufacturing on both sides of the borders or weeks. You are incorrect.

Protests are acceptable, even if they cause inconvenience. Protests without an issue that last for weeks-months with the only intent being causing economic damage aren’t protests, they’re tantrums. These protesters didn’t know why they were there besides getting the liberal out of power through any means.

These “protesters” deserved nothing but ridicule, their anti vax position is ridiculous, they know it, and it’s moot because the mandates change with the severity of the outbreak, and are from both sides of the border….Trudeau can’t force America to drop our mandates, and border crossers must be vaccinated….period. Notice when the mandates being lifted soon was announced they didn’t leave but just changed their demands. It’s not a protest, it’s an economic blackmail attempt.

The problem there is most of the violence was not part of the BLM protests (despite the lies right wing media produced all 2020), they were often nearby, taking advantage of the lowered police presence outside the protests, and often was violence directed at BLM, not coming from them. The people terrorizing and inciting violence, shooting crowds, planting bombs, lighting fires, shooting police, etc were Proud boys and Boogaloo boys…far right anti protesters. The idiots carried their manifestos explaining the false flag operation when they committed their crimes, and were caught repeatedly.

They should have simply used tow trucks, confiscating every truck involved to be sold at auction to pay for some of the exorbitant costs, far more than all summer of BLM and anti BLM protests, btw.

This was a threat to your sovereignty, and wasn’t being addressed by other laws or means (sounded like the police chief was a fan).

Seizure is perfection, but should include oversight (I bet it really does, you aren’t America where we’ve made it legal for police to commit armed robbery with no oversight). Note- seizure is different from forfeiture. They’re likely freezing accounts, not seizing the funds, right? Details matter.

It’s not just what they’re protesting, they don’t even know that themselves, it’s how and where. That said, the total lack of support among the population counts. I would expect any protest protesting against it being illegal to eat live babies to get shut down fast, no matter how civil they were on the streets.

Lemme guess, a pipeline crossing sovereign native lands under protest? Going over aquifers? Through preserves? Pumping tar sands no one really wants?
Millions in damages are an hour of the truck protests. They’re designed to cost tens of millions per day…costing everyone not just the target of their protest.

No known connection to protesters, but you want there to be one and are upset they didn’t just fabricate one? It sounds incredibly likely they’re involved, but without evidence one shouldn’t assign culpability.

They have the right to say anything, they don’t have the right to silence all other discussion and action while they ramble and party for weeks-months because they have nothing to say, but are loving the disruption they’re causing. A strong democracy doesn’t support one tiny group negating the entire continent’s voice for months. That’s what this is, they said their peace by day 2, now it’s not a protest, it’s an economic attack trying to blackmail a country (nearly a continent) into abandoning public health for a TINY minority of morons who want special privileges.

I agree with the above, this is just a dumb racist argument. Gu rode for China by choice, both because her parents are Chinese and because it was an excellent opportunity for her.

Does the poster believe we shouldn’t have any foreign born athletes on the American team? That’s going to remove some top athletes, @bobknight33.

Also, fuck China, why is the IOC kowtowing to Russia, who should be completely banned from competition for the next 40+ years after their state sponsored doping scheme was caught, not allowed to compete under a slightly different name, not allowed to compete even after testing positive for performance enhancing drugs? Not denying many others a medal because there are serious questions about Russia cheating again, but having no consequences for Russia!

Fuck the olympics. They’re so past their prime, are a loser for host countries, aren’t a fair sports organization or even close, is rife with abuse, fraud, and scandal…etc. It’s time to quit them.

America isn’t close to genocide, Bill? What about our native populations, many now extinct and more relegated to worthless areas with no services or resources. Remember forced re-education? Relocation? Extermination? Cultural genocide? Religious persecution? WTF happened to Bill? You know there’s an issue if Bob is on your side. America did everything we accuse China of doing to the Wiegers and more, and continues to do so to this day.
BTW, Bill….Hong Kong is part of China legally and historically, unlike Taiwan and Tibet.

Reminds me a lot of the rule that you can’t criticize Trump without severe consequences.

There’s been an increase in activity on neighboring, even connecting faults recently here on the southern end of the Cascadia. We don’t know enough to know if they’re precursors to a “big one” or unconnected.

I like that they included the native story, but find it odd they don’t mention Seattle, Portland, or any other coastal cities that would be decimated by a 9.0 along the Cascadia fault.

Lol. Is that what I said, or a ridiculous straw man you’re setting up to knock down?

Your fact free ilk are the decimation of a democracy that lasted over two centuries. Putting party above patriotism, principal, and phact (misspelled for alliterative purposes).

Yes, I watched some, and the trial isn’t the only source of info. I posted the video of him drinking and flashing white power signs. His own recorded actions are proof enough.
Here it is again…..



No bob, I’m talking about you, you are the one whining that the media isn’t unbiased and in the same breath posting insanely biased, partisan, fact free nonsense you call news….and god damn it it’s you’re - you are…not your - belonging to you….not yore - in ancient times . Learn English comrade. Patriots know their native tongue. What language DO you know, Bobski? Is it Russian or Mandarin?

My dad said Falling Rocks was like a Native American leprechaun, and they put up signs in areas where you might see him. “Watch for Falling Rocks”

Grassy yards are dumb as hell, and can fuck off. Parks work well if you need a large, grassy space (and it isn't unreasonable to maintain something like that, ecologically). We don't *each* need to have a tiny park in front of our house. I'm all about native plants, and/or permeable pavers. This "business in the front" is an idea I'm all about as well - hell yeah walkable shops!

Odd, 1/3!? I can’t recall a single time you’ve actually proven me wrong, and 9/10 of what you say is demonstrably wrong and the 10th thing you misunderstand.

Please give 3 specific examples where I am wrong but haven’t corrected my mistake. That should be easy.

I would rather be capable of speaking my native language well enough that I’m not constantly and convincingly being accused of being a foreigner posing as an American. Knowing your own language is step one for knowing anything else. You can’t learn properly if you don’t understand the words, this leaves you ignorant and mistaken 9/10 of the time, and targets for people like Trump who prey on the ignorant who will believe his nonsense because they don’t know better….that paired with your obstinate certitude in your mistakes makes you ridiculous, aggravating, and dangerous.

I don't think I know everything, but I can research what I don't know and still offer an intelligent educated response. Google and a bullshit filter are amazing teachers. I don't know why that's like sorcery to you.

Elitist!? Lol. So far off the mark, like most of what you say and think. ROTFLMAHS!

*quality restoration project. Now we just need 10000 more organizations like this and a time machine to get them back to the 70's and we just might have a chance at stopping forest loss. Unfortunately, today, climate change means native flora is struggling world wide, so just replanting them doesn't solve the big issue. You can't be successful at reforestation in a drought.