Wow old man, spoken like a true middle-aged fanboy. = P

Of course mma standup isn't at the level of boxing. Boxing is all standup.
Mixed martial arts is every other martial art style you can think of.

If you can't see that then you're not as smart as you'd like yourself to believe, with your crabby panties-in-a-bunch attitude. =]

A boxing round is 3 mins of standup hugging.
36 mins of dancing in boxing boots like an Acme cartoon.

MMA rounds are 5 mins of defending takedowns, submissions, head kicks, leg kicks, judo throws .. and strikes.
A MMA title fight is 5 rounds. That's 25 mins of working every muscle in your body.

If you aren't able to understand that about MMA you don't even know what you're talking about. [Which is already quite apparent]

I don't think you can appreciate all the disciplines of Mixed Martial Arts because you're sitting here complaining about heavyweights and how they aren't amazing conventional boxers.

P.S. - Fedor Emelianenko lost finally. Not due to great standup but by double submission: Armbar Triangle Choke.

My point is: of course MMA standup is sloppy. You have four or five other modes of attack you have to calculate and defend against.



>> ^highdileeho:

The standup talent isn't anywhere near the level of boxing. Is all i'm going to say and if you can't see that then your not as smart as you would like people to believe, with your pompus arrogant attitude.

the reason they were throwing haymakers was because they had to fight A 10 round match, (something mma athletes are not physiclly capable of)they were completly exhausted

...if you weren't able to understand that about fighting/boxing then i really don't know why i'm wasting my time, because you don't even know what your talking about.

mma is a good sport. I can appreciate all of the disciplines, my favorite fighter is emilionenko-- i'm not spell checking that name--, and my favorite style is sambo, it's far and away the best fighting discipline.

My point is mma needs to step up it's standup game it's sloppy.

I was just revisiting some of my videos and decided to do some research about this debate.

First, from a medical standpoint, basketball and baseball are considered contact sports as contact can and does occur. Boxing, MMA, NFL, etc are known as collision sports, where players impacting each other or the ground is a goal rather than incidental.

If you look at this report by Johns Hopkins University, they indicate 69 of the 171 matches in their sample set ended with injuries: 40%. That seems high until you look at the next page and see that 46 of those 69 injuries (48%) were cuts. In most cases, cuts just need time to heal and have no long-term effect save perhaps some scarring. If we take those out, we're left with 13% of the matches ending with injuries that have potential to be serious. There has been one death in sanctioned MMA but it was after the release of this study so it's not reflected.

Note their conclusion paragraph at the end: " Mixed Martial Arts competitions have changed dramatically since the first Ultimate Fighting Championship in 1993. The overall injury rate in MMA competitions is now similar to other combat sports, including boxing. Knockout rates are lower in MMA competitions than in boxing. This suggests a reduced risk of TBI in MMA competitions when compared to other events involving striking."

Unfortunately I can't find statistics on the NFL that can be directly compared, but here is an article talking about injuries. 60% of players report having suffered a concussion. This Wikipedia page cites statistics that the rate of direct fatalities has dropped to 4.3 per year on average from 1991-2006. I think these stats include people playing in their yards with no pads or helmets, though, so it's not easy to make a comparison to sanctioned MMA.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'choke hold, sleeper, out cold, knocked out, mixed martial arts, fighter' to 'rear naked choke, sleeper, mixed martial arts, fighter, cristiane santos' - edited by xxovercastxx

>> ^chilaxe:
The claims that non-collusive sparring can't be done using Aikido without hurting the opponent too badly can be tested easily against a mixed martial artist willing to risk broken arms, wrists, fingers etc. (he won't think it's much of a risk). I believe this issue is only going to grow, as mixed martial arts is growing rapidly, with viewership of the monthly UFC events eclipsing boxing and sometimes even baseball viewership among the under 40 generation.

This would be ridiculous, because aikido is practiced as a defensive art. Also see my points below. As an anecdote, there was such a duel arranged between one of Osensei's student and an american judo champion for a film on aikido in the 1960's. The judo guy was told not to attack since aikido was a defensive art. So he didn't. But the aikido representative (Akira Tohei), feinted an attack to create an opening and finally got the much bigger American judo guy on the ground. Still afterwards he was scolded by Osensei who said "You should have waited for an attack no matter what!". This is to say that there is no point in fighting if it's not to defend your life (or honor, since for the old Japanese the two are equal).


Isn't it a good cause to encourage Aikido to back up its claims, or to utilize more realistic sparring? UFC champs become millionaires, so there does seem to be ample incentive to participate.

Japanese bushi (samurai) did not participate in "realistic sparring" with their jujutsu techniques, yet the best of them could have probably killed any UFC champ. Why? Because they were ready to die at anytime. At that level, an untrained and sloppy but sudden and unexpected eye poke, for example, can become a lethal tool.

In my eyes, Judo and MMA competitions are much more dance-like than aikido practice. They're "freeform" dances. In judo and MMA you both have freedom from kata, but you lose that freedom because of 1) rules and 2) the "fair duel" setup, i.e. two guys that know when they will be fighting each other and even sometimes know what techniques the other favors. Aikido on the contrary doesn't require a "fair duel" situation to be effective. In fact, many (dan level) techniques are done with two or three opponents. We also practice with 4 or more opponents to make sure our techniques can flow instinctively under pressure. Karate still has kata with many opponent situation but most student don't even know they're fighting more than one "shadow" opponent in their kata. In comparison, in aikido we practice our "kata" (techniques) with a partner. This is because jujutsu is a skin-to-skin contact art, so you have to train your somatic sensations, up to being able to execute a technique in full darkness (this is practiced in many dojo in fact).

On the other hand, what is difficult with both competition and kata practice is to understand that in a non-comptetition or non-practice situation, you do not have to conform to kata or techniques. You execute them when the occasion presents itself, otherwise you try to create, in the heat of the moment, such an occasion (with atemi or some other distraction). In the end, the best teachers are real situations: if you really want to know if you're ready, go catch some criminals or kill some terrorists.

P.S. I know true judo (as done by Kano and Mifune for example) and many of the arts practiced in MMA by themselves don't need the "fair duel" setup to be effective, but the way they train for competitions makes it so (in fact Gracie jujutsu was made for fair duels. That's how they became famous in Brazil, by dueling. Saying that BJJ is good on the street is like saying a rapier is good on a battlefield: complete nonsense).

Let the trainee decide what is right for them.

We do this style because we want to, not because there is money involved.

You have to train in an art to understand it, and its all about finding the right school. I advocate Cross training, but I am just a 6th kyu.

In reply to this comment by chilaxe:
Thanks for taking my questioning in good spirit; I do agree with you guys on a number of points.


If there are any videos of Aikido applied in real situations, not just collusion sped up, I would be interested in seeing them. I searched for Tomiki Aikido and just found YouTube videos that are collusive or not resembling realistic struggle (e.g., e.g.2), which is fine, but just not what I'm looking for.

After the first UFCs, we didn't have to just take on faith the claims of different martial arts. The result was generally that in a 1 on 1 fight, an unarmed combatant not trained to defend against take downs and submissions was relatively powerless (sometimes humorously so) against the ground game of brazilian ju-jitu. Since then, strikers have become more well-rounded in that respect and have been more successful.

The claims that non-collusive sparring can't be done using Aikido without hurting the opponent too badly can be tested easily against a mixed martial artist willing to risk broken arms, wrists, fingers etc. (he won't think it's much of a risk). I believe this issue is only going to grow, as mixed martial arts is growing rapidly, with viewership of the monthly UFC events eclipsing boxing and sometimes even baseball viewership among the under 40 generation.


Isn't it a good cause to encourage Aikido to back up its claims, or to utilize more realistic sparring? UFC champs become millionaires, so there does seem to be ample incentive to participate.

Thanks again; I understand you guys are very experienced, so I have found your responses interesting.

Thanks for taking my questioning in good spirit; I do agree with you guys on a number of points.


If there are any videos of Aikido applied in real situations, not just collusion sped up, I would be interested in seeing them. I searched for Tomiki Aikido and just found YouTube videos that are collusive or not resembling realistic struggle (e.g., e.g.2), which is fine, but just not what I'm looking for.

After the first UFCs, we didn't have to just take on faith the claims of different martial arts. The result was generally that in a 1 on 1 fight, an unarmed combatant not trained to defend against take downs and submissions was relatively powerless (sometimes humorously so) against the ground game of brazilian ju-jitu. Since then, strikers have become more well-rounded in that respect and have been more successful.

The claims that non-collusive sparring can't be done using Aikido without hurting the opponent too badly can be tested easily against a mixed martial artist willing to risk broken arms, wrists, fingers etc. (he won't think it's much of a risk). I believe this issue is only going to grow, as mixed martial arts is growing rapidly, with viewership of the monthly UFC events eclipsing boxing and sometimes even baseball viewership among the under 40 generation.


Isn't it a good cause to encourage Aikido to back up its claims, or to utilize more realistic sparring? UFC champs become millionaires, so there does seem to be ample incentive to participate.

Thanks again; I understand you guys are very experienced, so I have found your responses interesting.

Ive never practice a kick above my knee.

In reply to this comment by legacy0100:
Wow this is very much like your regular Mixed Martial Arts fights. Surprised to see a form of Martial Arts so Modern.

I mean, I'm used to Dojo's teaching you all these forms and high kicks that felt very impractical.

But at the same time, maybe it's TOO pro-MMA? Because right now after watching this clip, I don't see how you can differentiate between your regular MMA training and this GKY.

Maybe it's just a copy of the popular martial art form of this day? Who knows?

>> ^videosiftbannedme:
I understand these are "demonstrational" clips, ie. this is the correct move and/or form you'd want to use in these particular situations. But I want to see clips of when the assailant just doesn't stand there and "take" the demonstration. In other words, if this were real life, the other guy would be fighting tooth and nail to get back control of the gun. Where are those videos? And what moves do you then have prepared if the assailant does this, or that?


If you can, find clips of this guy: Tony Blauer (http://tonyblauer.com/). Back in the day when mixed martial arts was pretty much unheard of he was advocating realistic training and calling BS on stuff like this. I had a few of his VHS tapes where he showed "attempted" knife and gun disarms. I say attempted because in his vids he always had the guy fight back realistically. He made a point of not having guys just stand there dumbly while he took the weapon. I really liked his training style. My brother and I learned a lot from imitating him by doing simulated knife-disarms (wearing white T-shirts and using red markers to simulate the knife). We mostly learned that chances are high you're going to get cut in the disarm attempt if the opponent fights back. The key is to make sure you're aware of where the blade is and keeping it away from vital organs.

Upvote for the earslap in this vid. I got to feel first-hand how effective it is, especially when both ears are boxed simultaneously.

>> ^ant:
Is there a non-music one where we can hear the actions?


I'll ask the guy who made it.

Seems so gimmicky after watching mixed martial arts.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'pride, fighting, knockout, KO, brutal' to 'pride, fighting, knockout, KO, brutal, mixed martial arts, mma' - edited by rembar

Wow this is very much like your regular Mixed Martial Arts fights. Surprised to see a form of Martial Arts so Modern.

I mean, I'm used to Dojo's teaching you all these forms and high kicks that felt very impractical.

But at the same time, maybe it's TOO pro-MMA? Because right now after watching this clip, I don't see how you can differentiate between your regular MMA training and this GKY.

Maybe it's just a copy of the popular martial art form of this day? Who knows?

Tags changed from "ultimate fighter double knockout fight" to "double knockout, mixed martial art" by gold star member rembar.

As an MMAer myself, I don't quite understand what's so mindblowing about MMA making it onto the cover of SI. It's a terrific sport, albeit somewhat misunderstood, and is quickly becoming one of the leading sport draws. I men, it's fighting for pete's sake, how can that NOT appeal to young adults?

As you may know, mixed martial arts, in the form of pankration, was one of the most popular sports in the original Greek Olympic games, back in the 600s B.C., and is currently under review for admittance as a demonstration sport in the 2008 and 2012 Olympics.

Contrary to popular belief, mixed martial art fighters are not mindless brawlers: in fact, to reach a high level in the sport requires excellence in not just one martial art, but many arts, in order to adequately cover the three ranges of combat (standing, clinch, and ground) as well as both striking and grappling. For example, Fedor, almost universally considered the best fighter in the world, draws his base as an international champion in judo and sambo, and usually trains in submission grappling, boxing, and Muay Thai. He has, among many other feats, thrown and submitted an Olympic gold-medal judoka, hip tossed an Olympic silver-medal Greco-Roman wrestler, submitted some of the world's best Brazilian jiu-jitieros, and knocked out high-level Muay Thai fighters and kickboxers.

MMA has become a proving ground for martial arts, in what I believe is the spirit of Bruce Lee's philosophy of Jeet Kune Do: take what works, discard what doesn't. Arts that are effective are proven in the ring, and ones that aren't are dropped quickly - people can't make excuses when they get hit in the face. And the arts that work have coalesced into an overarching view of fighting, making for basically the most effective method of training and preparation for unarmed combat.

As for homoerotic overtones....well, I guess one can see what one wants to see.

Sifters interested in learning more about specific aspects of MMA can check out my Fighting Arts playlist, which includes sifts covering an expanding selection of martial arts practiced and used in mixed martial arts competitions.

lol the drink of mixed martial arts.
targets the same demographic.