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No. the black man in the background was correct when he said the police let the badge go to their heads.

He could have been an asset to the police in calming the girl down if the police saw and took the opportunity.

With good reason she was very afraid to be in the situation she was in. She needed someone she could trust and it may have very well been the bystander who the police told to stand back.

The mace was certainly uncalled for. They could have pulled her in from the otherside of the car.

Quit looking for reasons to punish. Their job is to protect her. That's why they tell criminals to "watch your head" getting into the car. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

BTW, I was raised by a good cop and Marine.

@Jinx -- Whether in "meatspace" or on the internet, I think the difference is engaging with others vs being in the echo chamber.

A lot of "engaging" with others is going to be negative. Picket line meets picket line has about as much chance of being productive as reading the comments on a controversial YouTube video.

But even if the majority of the "engagement" is that, there are going to be some patient people who connect in a positive enough way to actually enlighten and persuade. Like the former-WBC lady's new husband.

And while that positive engagement seems to have the best shot at redeeming those that can be redeemed, it also might be the best way to show the true colors of those beyond redemption. The skinhead leader guy got maced by counter-protesters twice. That gives him a semi-legitimate provocation to respond in kind or with escalating violence (bloody knuckles, broken bones, whatever). But if he isn't provided with any such provocation and still resorts to violence, people can truly see his "idealogy" for what it is.

Hence Rosa Parks responding to the bus driver in Montgomery:
Driver - "If you don't stand up, I'm going to have to call the police and have you arrested."
Parks - "You may do that."


If I was there in Charlottesville in the heat of the moment, face to face with that kind of hate and bigotry, I'd have been one of the people chanting "fuck off nazis". I'd have cheered when somebody on "my side" maced chief-skinhead in the face, if I hadn't done it myself. ...But I recognize that we could sure use more people that react like Rosa Parks did, and less like I would have.

the alt right are a vile,vulgar and grotesque display of racist ignorance all gussied up as "patriots",as "white nationalists" whose only concern is the safety and prosperity of america.

pffffft../fart noise.

so would you PLEASE for the love of fucking CHRIST allow these nimrods to hold their little rallies,their little marches.let them speak and speak and speak.....

because,like anything..bad ideas have a way of falling into the shitter when those ideas are shoved into the open.

there is a REASON why we haven't heard from these shitbags for almost 35 years,and it ain't because somebody threw a punch,sprayed some mace,or drowned out their voice.

it is simply because we gave them a mic.
that's it..we let them talk,let them march,let them hand out their literature.

this ain't rocket science people.

@ChaosEngine

i am trying to unpack your comment.

so you AGREE that attacking people you disagree with ideologically is wrong,but only if they are not self-identified nazis?

because 90 years ago these guys kinda cornered the market in nazism? and well..we don't wanna see a repeat of THAT now do we? so let's punch them in the face....

and that somehow punching them in the face will somehow magically halt any further encroachment of those dirty nazis!!!!

because it was so effective in the 1930's?

ok..how about this...

how about we daydream about cockpunching these knuckleheads,because it brings a smile to our faces but NOT actually punch them?

instead...we allow these cunts..who came to this gig LOOKING for a fight..to bluster and foam at the mouth.to spew their vile and vulgar message of racism dressed up as nationalistic pride,so EVERYONE can see.

and i bet you dollars to donuts one of them knuckledragging retards,who came all gussied up for a rumble...is gonna make a mistake...that inbreeder is gonna just HAVE to use his home made mace,or his shiny new gopher poker on someone...

probably one of dem darn "libtards".

and in this age of cell phone vigilantism,this is gonna get caught on video,posted to youtube and KABOOM!

white nationalist racist nazi party is forced back underground.

because you CANNOT fight fascism with a different flavor of fascism.

fascism is fascism yo,just because one flavor may taste better to your buds don't change that very simple truth.

the problem in this setting is you have TWO groups who are addicted to identity politics,and BOTH are convinced of their own righteousness,and BOTH groups suffer from a horrid case of groupthink.

and this ideological stand has them both certain of their righteousness,and this gives them a moral certitude that violence is an acceptable answer.

because they are the righteous.

sound familiar?

you mentioned 100 years ago,
i will match your 100 years and counter with the previous 5,000.

ideology homie..
the cancer of the deluded.
just ask any fundamentalist christian,or muslim,or jew.....

they will be perfectly happy to tell you how RIGHT they are,and how WRONG you are.

and this shit?
^ this psycho shit?
this is just a puss pocket,erupting from the internal corruption feeding on my countries soul.

economic collapse ain't gonna bring my country down.
nope..
it is gonna be the polarized politics that finally takes this country out.

i hate this..i seriously hate this...

You obviously haven't been watching too much of the footage then, and you've bought the narrative hook, line and sinker.

The "anti protestors" showed up with bottles of quick dry cement, balloons filled with urine and feces, fireworks, glass bottles, mace, hairspray cans used as impromptu flamethrowers etc. Plenty of signs advocating the scalping/punching of nazi's of course. But yeah, totally impromptu and they were totally peaceful... 8 |

After the ACLU stepped in to get the permit reinstated for the right wing rally, the police the next day were ordered to stand down, leaving the rally attendees with zero protection and access to the event required passing through the anti-protester crows, which precipitated rapidly in to violence. Funny that, right? Almost like the powers that be set the whole thing up to guarantee it turned in to a riot... And then there's the grandstanding afterwards by the (D) mayor about those horrible racists... /grin

This has been documented by many left, right and center sources for anyone who bothers to look for it. It's less to do with Trump and more to do with the constant narrative that white = shit and how people are getting pissed off about it.

Far, far too easy just to label them all Trump loving nazi's than invest even the slightest bit of effort in to trying to work out what's truly going on, eh? \= |

KKK, alt-right, nazi party, white nationalists, and generic right wing racists, all under the banner 'Unite the right' (meaning right wing, not the correct). That's not one radical group it's a conglomeration of many, all of which are firmly on your 'team', and the counter protesters were not so organized and were mostly non-affiliated locals protesting a hate march/rally in their town.

The right wingers came armed, in riot gear, with shields, clubs, and mace. The anti protesters had cardboard and sticks they picked up on site when confronted, and mace. The right marched, without permits, all weekend. (the one event they had a permit for was canceled due to repeated violence in each of those unsanctioned marches) The right wingers were 90%+ non residents that came to start a fight, the anti-protesters were, from what I've seen, nearly 100% locals.
The right wingers committed actual murder and uncountable attempted murders and assaults. I didn't hear of or see a single right winger being killed or even hospitalized.

With the right as one of those extremist groups, I expect violence, no matter the circumstances and I'm rarely disappointed.

But yeah...like your president, feel free to continue deflect blame from your team and keep trying to pretend it's all the "other's" fault and they are responsible for your team's hate crimes and racism. That's working so well for him...and you....winning.

*Facepalm*

Way to stand with the Nazis, Bob. Nice job.

PS: It's ANTIFA, not ANFTA. It's short for ANTIFACIST. Know your enemy.

If they tried and she didn't sit, fine, take the next step. They didn't try, they just went for escalation. She comes back when he told her to....she just didn't stay. After they grab her is when she stops following directions.

In the car, when and where they maced her, she's no threat and kicking no one.

If you believe they are there just to help you, cooperate. The prisons are full of people who did just that. They are not normal humans, they are authorities looking for infractions.

Funny, I've managed peaceful solutions even when assaulted at gunpoint because a cop made a mistake, and every other interaction I've ever had with them too. These days I don't speak, though, except to tell them I won't speak with them. That's civil enough, and serves me well.

As for the macing, not using it would require physically man-handling an uncooperative person. I'm sure mace is unpleasant, but the chance of any injury coming from using it are far less than having to physically put hands on an uncooperative person. A taser would have been too much. After several warnings, and the video clearly showing the mace was used for compliance, not for punishment or out of anger, I agree with it. If it was me I would rather be maced than be "taken to the ground" by any cop, no matter how nice.

I do. If they told her to sit, and she sat, problems solved.
She continuously said "don't touch me". They didn't need to if they told her to sit instead of letting her get on her bike and ride it. She clearly had an issue with being touched, they could have recognized that and used it, instead they exacerbated things.
You are expecting an irrational girl to act rationally. Impossible. That doesn't make her right.

You are also focusing on the part that, while more harsh than necessary imo, was understandable and you're intentionally ignoring the part most people find outrageous, macing her when she posed zero threat. Defend that.

If I'm not under arrest, I'm leaving. I don't talk to cops, so I'll be no help in their investigation anyway, none at all. I hope I get arrested for that, I can use the money.

Again, if her being injured was really a concern, pushing her over her bike, against a wall, to the ground, then carrying her like they did is the worst possible thing they could do...so I think the 'for her safety' thing is pure bullshit.

Yes, that's where we differ, because she sure didn't seem to be trying to leave to me, just had an inability to stand still under stress, like many 15 year olds. (And as I've said, it's the macing a handcuffed, secured girl that's out of line imo, the manhandling was just more than needed and was certain to escalate problems rather than solve them, so not smart but on the low end of the scale of acceptability, the macing was a pure assault in my eyes, for no good reason beyond sadism. It was not the right way to get her in the car.)

Keep in mind, she gets on her bike and rides (slowly) with ZERO complaint from the officer she's right in front of, he LET her do it, then got pissed off that she did it. WTF?!
Again, this could have been solved with a simple command to sit down, a command they did not give. Also, detained is not under arrest. You are under zero obligation to submit to detention. If they thought she was leaving the scene, they should have arrested her. Instead, they said repeatedly that they were detaining her for 'cooperation of investigation' (not a crime) and a medical release (something they probably need for their own liability purposes, but not something they can arrest a person for as far as I know).

Yes, the little girl was in the wrong...did my saying exactly that confuse you?

Yes, I absolutely think that if an officer pepper sprayed another officer's child for something the first officer screwed up (like failing to put her all the way in the car) the parent would go ballistic and sue...no matter how their child had acted. Rude behavior is not a threat, the only legitimate reason to use force. I don't think they would see it like you do if it was their child.
Yes, they would also probably reprimand the child too, but bad manners do not excuse assault with a weapon on a handcuffed detainee.

There was no reason to use mace, the proper response is to pull her into the car from the other side.

Your analogy only works if the wolf hounds go after the sheep when there's not a wolf in sight.

Hours? Really? Try an extra 10 seconds to avoid 15 minutes of battle and days of court. "Sit down" doesn't take even that. If they don't have the patience to verbalize the instructions they want followed, they should quit. Deescalation is their job, and they absolutely failed, as they often do.

Remember, they repeatedly say they're only detaining her because she may need medical treatment, then they treat her in a way that ensures she needs medical treatment. If they were really trying to help her, they failed so utterly miserably that they all should quit today...but we know that was bullshit lies, right?

I'm guessing you've never had a gun to your head and a knee on your neck face down in a gutter because an officer made a mistake reading your licence plate and had zero patience for the car thief he was taking down, followed by threats of retaliation if you report them. You might give them less cooperation and leeway if you had.

The cops are obviously not very well trained for this sort of situation - but I don't see what else they could have done unless they had a specialized juvenile officer on the scene; but macing a 15 year old girl is way overboard. Good job radicalizing the youth, coppers!

@Jinx
my main point is the the fringe of both ends of the political spectrum dominate the discussion,and BOTH are fucking horrible,ill-thought,narrow-minded and petulant.

they are part of the disease.

not every person who identifies as left is a snowflake,nor is everyone who identifies as right a bed wetter.

i wrote extensively on why trump won,and would happy to share if you would like me to,but to answer your question:no.snowflakes are not to blame (and i am struggling how you conflated that to be honest).

i have been:pepper sprayed,maced and beaten by three cops.
i have been thrown in solitary for days without food or water,and no working toilet.
i have been punched in the face by a supposedly devout christian,and i have been publicly harrassed for mistaking a young woman for a man at a gay bar.

is there anything else you would like to know to assuage the MASSIVE presumptions you made in your comment?

look dude,if you can't see that both the ultra left and ultra right are fucking bonkers and have lost their way.they co not even come close to representing the majority,and by their behavior..i do not think they really care.

so why should we?
the people who recognize that shit has gone sideways.that the politicians are purchased corporate whores,and this binary politics is just a device to keep us divided.

i am an anarchist,but i am not stupid,and refuse to be coddled or manipulated into buying into shitty philosophies and even worse politics.

the ultra left are fucking cry-babies,and the ultra right neo-fascists are bed wetters.

and both have lost their way.