They used to have one at the Oceanário in Lisbon (which I saw once of twice), but unfortunately it died in 2010. They have a new one, but I don't think it has grown to full size yet.

Kudos for talking about the Lisbon earthquake of 1755.

According to a comment in YouTube, it is LIsbon, @notarobot.

But you can't believe everything you read.

Damn dude! I used to think I knew how to search the net. Nice work, and I thank you for the info.

These were submitted in the hope of finding just such info, more than any hope they'd get sifted. So I owe you one now. LOL
In reply to this comment by oritteropo:
Electronic Pop Indie band from Lisbon, Portugal.

They have a youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/bangguru and their website is accessible using the archive.org internet wayback machine (it has been defunct since 2007) -
<a rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" href="http://web.archive.org/web/20070806143530/<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.bangguru.com/">http://www.bangguru.com/">http://web.archive.org/web/20070806143530/http://www.bangguru.com/

From the bio on that archived site:

The Portuguese musician João Pico formed BANGGURU in December 2003. Featuring J.Pico (guitar, programming) , Marisa Fortes (voice, lyrics), Pedro Henriques (voice, lyrics), João Hora (programming) and José Dias (guitar). The group presents a multi-oriented electronic pop music and is working on their second album.

João Pico was born in the early '70s. He attended the Hot Clube de Portugal and several musical projects sprang up from this invariable interest in music. He is presently working as an image editor in a TV network.

Marisa Fortes was born in the late '70s. she had singing lessons in Academia de Amadores de Música de Lisboa. She has a degree in Portuguese and English Literature and is presently working as a teacher.

Pedro Henriques was born in the early ‘70s, he attended the Academia de Amadores de Música de Lisboa and studied Archeology. He is presently working as a technician in a TV network.

João Hora was born in the late ‘70s, he has a degree in Physics and he is a music composer since the early ‘90s. He is presently working as an audio technician.

José Dias was born in the early ‘70s, he has a degree in Portuguese Literature, he is a musician as well as a composer. He is a teacher and he also works in a Portuguese dance music magazine as a jazz reviewer.

Electronic Pop Indie band from Lisbon, Portugal.

They have a youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/bangguru and their website is accessible using the archive.org internet wayback machine (it has been defunct since 2007) -
http://web.archive.org/web/20070806143530/http://www.bangguru.com/

From the bio on that archived site:

The Portuguese musician João Pico formed BANGGURU in December 2003. Featuring J.Pico (guitar, programming) , Marisa Fortes (voice, lyrics), Pedro Henriques (voice, lyrics), João Hora (programming) and José Dias (guitar). The group presents a multi-oriented electronic pop music and is working on their second album.

João Pico was born in the early '70s. He attended the Hot Clube de Portugal and several musical projects sprang up from this invariable interest in music. He is presently working as an image editor in a TV network.

Marisa Fortes was born in the late '70s. she had singing lessons in Academia de Amadores de Música de Lisboa. She has a degree in Portuguese and English Literature and is presently working as a teacher.

Pedro Henriques was born in the early ‘70s, he attended the Academia de Amadores de Música de Lisboa and studied Archeology. He is presently working as a technician in a TV network.

João Hora was born in the late ‘70s, he has a degree in Physics and he is a music composer since the early ‘90s. He is presently working as an audio technician.

José Dias was born in the early ‘70s, he has a degree in Portuguese Literature, he is a musician as well as a composer. He is a teacher and he also works in a Portuguese dance music magazine as a jazz reviewer.

I have to agree with Chaosengine. Being Portuguese I can assure you our problems are not a direct result of a socialist agenda. In fact, it's the direct result of governments borrowing more than we can pay, and leaving the tab for the next guy like the assholes that they are, and spending money on completely moronic things.

Did you know Portugal is actually one of the countries in the world with the best network of roads? There are no more, no less that 3 different roads, in parallel connecting Lisbon and Porto (the two biggest cities). You have the A1 (the most important highway), then the A17 (a newer highway) and the old N1 (just a regular 2 lane road). WHY? We don't need it.

A few years back, the then Minister of Defence (who is now the foreign affairs minister, a disgusting weasel) order 2 fucking submarines from Germany. They cost 500 million euros each (1 billion in total). Now... It's true that Portugal has an absolutely huge area of the Atlantic to survey, control, and administer, but anyone with half a brain knows that you do that with frigates and fast ships. That 1 billion euros could have been used to save a big famous shipyard which is on the brink of bankruptcy, and could have easily manufactured hundreds of smaller vessels. (oh.. and that shit head of a minister, when he was the defence minister actually told the people who worked at the shipyard that they would be building what I just said. Of course, they never did)

The previous government insisted against EVERYONE that Lisbon needed a new Airport. Of course, that is now on the shelf, be cause it was completely stupid and it would cost several billion euros.

Oh, did I mention the TGV? (the high speed train). Porto and Lisbon are connected by a train called the Pendular, which looks a lot like a tgv, and is supposed to reach speeds of 250 km/h (which is great really. At that speed the trip between the two cities would take no more than 2 hours) the problem is, greedy incompetent assholes always get their hands on government funded programs, and they built the whole line between Porto and Lisbon (which is about 350km's in lenght) and the only place the train can achieve the top speed is between my city and another one to the south, in a journey of no more than 50km's (it's not a safety thing mind you, it's just the track wasn't built like it was supposed to) The rest of the time, the train hops along a 150.. 170km/h. WHY THE FUCK WOULD WE NEED A TGV between the two cities when the existing train is already great IF it had been properly built. Thankfully that's also in the shelf.

The European Championship of 2004... it was great. Portugal almost won the championship, which would have been great, since we were the hosts. And everything went great. Several new stadiums were built, the festivities were very nice, etc. The problem is, most of these stadiums are now a maintenance nightmare, because the ones left with the bill are the cities and not the government. My own city is 200 million in the red because of all this shit (a city of less than 80,000 people. although the whole district has a lot more people. About 600,000).

These are just a few examples, and not ONE of them is a result of socialism, but of stupid management and capitalism, and wanting to buy shiny things.

AND then we also get fucked nice and royally in the ass by most atrocious capitalist system in the world, the american one, which has the 3 most notorious rating agencies spewing nothing but stupidity, speculation, lies, and anything that gets their fuck buddies some extra euros or dollars. The United States was 2 days away from going into default, and only came up with a ridiculous temporary measure. Yet, none of the agencies touched the american rating. How curious! Portugal was bailed out by the IMF, it has a majority government, consensus from the people that sacrifices must be done even though they suck and in some cases are completely unfair, was actually going beyond what the IMF requested, and still Moody's slashed the rating to junk.

In short... this whole financial crisis was caused by over-consumption, really shitty management, and a lot of business practices that should, quite frankly be a crime!

Welcome to the club of the "Fucked-over-deficit" Ti_Moth. All public workers in Portugal making more than 1500€/month had a pay cut (the higher the salary, the bigger the cut), the fuel market was deregulated a couple of years back, so now we're paying 1,5€ per liter (and on the rise), unemployment is at 10,5% (me included), and the fucking idiots in the government just announced and extra set of measures for 2012 and 2013 that will surely fuck us all even more.

<sarcasm> Fortunately the high-speed train project (which will connect Lisbon to Spain, and later on, Lisbon and Porto) and the new Lisbon Airport are still going ahead as planned at a cost of several billion euros. </sarcasm>

24 year old (if you are referring to Manning). And I would say to you that courage without conscience is simple barbarity.

When the democratic revolution happened here in Portugal, 25 of April of 1974, the soldiers under the command of the regime all disobeyed orders. Things could have gotten very ugly if they had disregarded their conscience and followed orders like good soldiers. There was special concern over a battleship stationed near Lisbon, since the Navy was more loyalist. They could have leveled half the city. But they did nothing.

The only people who fired on the crowd were the secret services, trying to gain time so they could burn all the evidence of their abuses of the population.

So you tell me that Manning doesn't know his ass from his head, but maybe it's the other way around. Because US soldiers are very good soldiers. They always obey orders.

Hey EMPIRE, iberian backup here.

Also as a portuguese I have to say this did wonders for the drug problem. I was but a wee lad but I still remember some of the shitty, shitty, oh so shitty swaths of Lisbon infested with drug addicts. Casal Ventoso comes to mind, looking like a gigantic dung pile right as you enter Lisbon from the 25 de Abril bridge. Mind you, it's still no place to go pick flowers, but the improvement is visible.

As for myself, I lived on the ground floor of an apartment building in the middle of some projects. Next to our house was this apartment block where construction was stopped halfway. The whole thing was a concrete skeleton populated with drug addicts. It's funny now but back then I was instructed to duck into a coffee house if I suspected someone was following me on my way to school. Made me feel like a commando, good times.

Anyway, these days the whole area is cleaned up and looking quite nice (they finished the damn building) and even some of the more disruptive communities seem to have integrated well into the cultural melting pot of eternal suspicion.

As for how this relates to the US, from what I have learned watching The Wire and Fox News it seems like there is a different way of seeing drug users there. Due to the link to violent crime, it looks to me like many americans see drugs = mad, rabid, possibly angy black man criminals. And since Amurka don't negociate with no gawdamn terrarists, you are stuck in an escalation loop. And I'm sad to see that it looks like nothing but a complete crisis will break it. Since the link to violent and organized crime never fully developed over here, people still look at junkies more with pity than anything else.

tl;dr: Life is better because of this. Drug addicts are lost people and fighting them is fighting yourself.

>> ^EMPIRE:

as a portuguese, I vouch for this project.
Drug addiction is a disease. A sickness, and must be dealt with as such. Not by treating addicts as criminals, but by treating them as people in need of assistance.

this video was shot in Lisbon, Portugal. FYI

Please guys read the Lisbon Treaty. Ireland has already voted NO, and we have now been told by our would-be Masters in Europe that NO is not good enough, we need to vote AGAIN.

Is this democracy?

If Ireland votes NO again there will be no United States of Europe - this is the point.

>> ^sirex:
winston, find below required evidence of why your argument is crap.
MURDER (LATE-1990s)
EUROPE AND USA CITY MURDERS
PER 100,000
(1) Washington, D.C., USA 69.3
(2) Philadelphia, USA 27.4
(3) Dallas, USA 24.8
(4) Los Angeles, USA 22.8
(5) Chicago, USA 20.5
(6) Phoenix, USA 19.1
(7) Moscow, Russia 18.1
(8) Houston, USA 18.0
(9) New York City, USA 16.8
(10) Helsinki, Finland 12.5
(11) Lisbon, Portugal 9.7
(12) San Diego, USA 8.0
(13) Amsterdam, Netherlands 7.7
(14) Belfast, N.Ireland, UK 4.4
(15) Geneva, Switzerland 4.2
(16) Copenhagen, Denmark 4.0
(17) Berlin, Germany 3.8
(18) Paris, France 3.3
(19) Stockholm, Sweden 3.0
(20) Prague, Czechoslovakia 2.9
i've had this discussion with people on videosift before and cant be bothered getting into a flame fest about it again, but feel free to private message me and i'll link you up with a bunch more data.


You quoted some statistics, and this makes his argument invalid? Then you say, "Ive had this argument before". Appealing to past arguments as though they make you right, appealing to false authority.

Link to sources, bibliography. Until then your argument is unsustainable.

Your argument, is a very gentle Non Sequitur. It has no context, other than you had this discussion with another member. Also, linking to research does nothing unless you have good thoughts to go along with your quotes. Hence the confusion I have here.

Before you attack an argument make sure that you have your sources posted. Here is what I have from a Lt. Col. Dave Grossman Army Ret. Quoted from his book, titled On killing. "Lt. Col. Grossman a former army ranger and paratrooper taught psychology at west point is currently professor of Military Science at Arkansas State University."

The statistics are in here, and found by Interpol.
http://www.killology.com/art_weap_sum_worldwide.htm


EDIT: I do realize that your comment is flame bait.

By the way, this was really a long drawn out appeal to authority. And also a plug for the book because I think it is good!

winston, find below required evidence of why your argument is crap.

MURDER (LATE-1990s)
EUROPE AND USA CITY MURDERS
PER 100,000
(1) Washington, D.C., USA 69.3
(2) Philadelphia, USA 27.4
(3) Dallas, USA 24.8
(4) Los Angeles, USA 22.8
(5) Chicago, USA 20.5
(6) Phoenix, USA 19.1
(7) Moscow, Russia 18.1
(8) Houston, USA 18.0
(9) New York City, USA 16.8
(10) Helsinki, Finland 12.5
(11) Lisbon, Portugal 9.7
(12) San Diego, USA 8.0
(13) Amsterdam, Netherlands 7.7
(14) Belfast, N.Ireland, UK 4.4
(15) Geneva, Switzerland 4.2
(16) Copenhagen, Denmark 4.0
(17) Berlin, Germany 3.8
(18) Paris, France 3.3
(19) Stockholm, Sweden 3.0
(20) Prague, Czechoslovakia 2.9

i've had this discussion with people on videosift before and cant be bothered getting into a flame fest about it again, but feel free to private message me and i'll link you up with a bunch more data.

>> ^Fade:
The fact of the matter is he is right about the people of Europe disagreeing with what the ruling elite is trying to do.

That may be so, and I am even inclined to agree. But that doesn't mean that Le Pen is a suitable spokesman for the people. The European Union is in desperate need of reformation, and the Lisbon Treaty was a part of that. I believe the treaty was a bad piece of work and was rushed through too fast without proper debate. But a lot of the ideas in it were good, at least much better than what Le Pen is proposing. See Farhad's references for what we would get more of with Le Pen in charge.

The fact of the matter is he is right about the people of Europe disagreeing with what the ruling elite is trying to do. Thank God Irelands constitution allowed them to defend themselves from the Lisbon treaty. Trust me, many other European nations would have voted the same way if they had been given the choice.