Ineffective != Terrible

If it costs 1200 Euros (on average) to clear one mine, releasing 24 of these things to detonate ONE mine is still cheaper than other option. If one of these things detonates one landmine, perhaps one seven-year-old gets to keep her leg. Money well spent. Until the local population can afford Million-dollar landmine-clearing tanks these can make a small difference for relatively modest costs.

You are correct that the whirlygigs are more expensive than many landmines. Mines are cheap. Getting to the root of the problem and banning use and production of landmines is a greater issue.

This video may help to *promote attention to an ongoing global problem. Presently, Russia, the United States, Israel, India and Pakistan have still not signed up to the the Ottawa Treaty. A further issue is that many manufacturers of munitions, including mines, are heavily invested in by stock-brokers and pension funds. The BC Investment Management Corporation, for example, which manages investments for teachers' and public servants' pensions plans has in the past had as much as "$4.6 billion worth of stock in 251 corporations producing war materiel." There is money in war. People get paid to build landmines.

>> ^Drachen_Jager:

Terrible idea. It's not systematic enough to clear any given area with certainty, and people may think of zones where these have been operating as 'clear' instead of as potential landmine areas. I think this invention has a great potential to increase the number of accidental landmine detonations, lost limbs and deaths.
Maybe it will explode a few, but when some of it's 'legs' get blown off it stops moving. Does someone go out there, risking his life and limbs in what is now a known minefield to fix it, or do you just leave it there? Because they may seem cheap, but 1 whirlydoohickey blown up per 1 landmine disarmed is hardly 'cheap', when some landmines cost under a dollar, and they may be spread out in the thousands in a given area.

The only real solution is a MASSIVE MASSIVE vehicle... certainly not "Bagger-288" MASSIVE, but MASSIVE. If a landmine does more than make a THUMP! noise... the vehicle needs to be more massive and sturdy. Then just plow the place up with it.

>> ^Fred_Chopin:

My suggestion would be to equipe each one of them with a GPS tracker and record all of their movements.
In other words, make them smarter. Like those iRobot vacum cleaner...

Thereby adding to the expense...

>> ^Drachen_Jager:

@aaronfr
I lived in a heavily mined area for six months, so I think I know how aware people are in those situations. However, I don't expect a five year old kid to have that same discipline, and quelle surprise, most of those who are injured or killed by old minefields are children. I don't think your point here is relevant.
When these things are done rolling around the desert, what is the certainty that desert is clear? If they don't clear spaces so they're actually safe, what's the point? Randomly detonate a few mines?
There's a reason it's expensive to clear mines properly, and comparing these things to proper mine clearance, and then comparing the pricetag is laughable.

I agree with you in part, but I think the strong form of your argument is a bit much. Certainly randomly detonating a few mines is helpful. If you can send some arbitrarily large number of these things (30 per mine you would have cleared in a sweep) rolling over the desert until you are ultimately detonating very few mines then it is also substantially less likely that a wayward 5 y.o. is going to stumble on one. It doesn't seem like an all or none proposition. I agree, before an area can be designated clear it should be properly swept. However, properly clearing the field is probably too expensive to be feasible. At least reducing the danger could save lives when those kids that don't know any better happen to wander after a stray ball in the still potentially dangerous mine field. Also, the number of mines that need to be safely disarmed could be reduced.

Seems like it might be a cool way to at least thin out landmines so there was somewhat less risk to people that happen to wander into the minefield. If you want to reclaim the land though I think you have to do a systematic sweep, and I can't really see how you'd reduce the expenditure on that.

@aaronfr

Yeah, I think I have some idea how to clear landmines. I was the only one in my mine warfare class to spot the anti-lift device the instructors had placed next to one of the mines in the test. Yes, there is some danger to it, but the thing about clearing landmines that way, is that when you're done, the area is 99% certain to be clear.

I lived in a heavily mined area for six months, so I think I know how aware people are in those situations. However, I don't expect a five year old kid to have that same discipline, and quelle surprise, most of those who are injured or killed by old minefields are children. I don't think your point here is relevant.

When these things are done rolling around the desert, what is the certainty that desert is clear? If they don't clear spaces so they're actually safe, what's the point? Randomly detonate a few mines?

There's a reason it's expensive to clear mines properly, and comparing these things to proper mine clearance, and then comparing the pricetag is laughable.

I do agree with you on one thing, there are a lot of misconceptions here, and they seem to all be on your side of the conversation.

A lot of misconceptions here:
>> ^Drachen_Jager:

and people may think of zones where these have been operating as 'clear' instead of as potential landmine areas. I think this invention has a great potential to increase the number of accidental landmine detonations, lost limbs and deaths.
Generally, people don't whimsically choose to walk through an area that is covered in land mines. Most Westerners tend to discount the power of local knowledge, and to assume that everyone else in the world is just running around from unknown place to unknown place like we do. Fact is, in places like Afghanistan, the people are hyper-aware of the local situation, particularly when it relates to their personal security and they tend to stay in a small geographical area (no weekend trips to the lake or across country to see Grandma). Landmine deaths occur most often in places that are not marked as dangerous and alongside roads (which tend to be the only path between one location and another.
>> ^Drachen_Jager:

Maybe it will explode a few, but when some of it's 'legs' get blown off it stops moving. Does someone go out there, risking his life and limbs in what is now a known minefield to fix it, or do you just leave it there?

Ummm.... how do you think landmines are removed now? With hi-tech robots and a smartphone? Plenty of lives and limbs at risk in this world cleaning up the messes of violent conflict.
>> ^Drachen_Jager:

Because they may seem cheap, but 1 whirlydoohickey blown up per 1 landmine disarmed is hardly 'cheap', when some landmines cost under a dollar, and they may be spread out in the thousands in a given area.

IF the current cost is §1200 per landmine removal, then, yes, §40 per landmine is cheap.

Terrible idea. It's not systematic enough to clear any given area with certainty, and people may think of zones where these have been operating as 'clear' instead of as potential landmine areas. I think this invention has a great potential to increase the number of accidental landmine detonations, lost limbs and deaths.

Maybe it will explode a few, but when some of it's 'legs' get blown off it stops moving. Does someone go out there, risking his life and limbs in what is now a known minefield to fix it, or do you just leave it there? Because they may seem cheap, but 1 whirlydoohickey blown up per 1 landmine disarmed is hardly 'cheap', when some landmines cost under a dollar, and they may be spread out in the thousands in a given area.

like solar powered landmine boas?

>> ^bmacs27:

Good idea, but it's sort of specific to deserts unfortunately. If only there was something like this for the rain forest.

Not impressed. Where are the spikes and landmines?

Cracks are landmines. Been playing it since forever, it actually has helped me develop a sort of second sense allowing me to avoid stepping in dog-poo and spit (oh man how I hate how people just spit in the street!).

Get yours cargo container while you can. The collapse of America will start in 2013.
From Business Insider:
A) The Bush tax cuts on those making more than $200k will expire.
B) The Bush tax cuts on those making less than $200k will also expire.
C) The Patch on AMT will expire.
D) The 2% payroll tax holiday will expire for all workers on 12/31/12 (I’m sure the current holiday will be rolled for another year)
E) The 99-week extended unemployment benefits die on 12/31. (The emergency benefits will also be extended for 2012)

F) There will have to be a budget that is approved. Alternatively, a series of continuing resolutions is required to avert a government shutdown. We have not had an approved budget in over 900 days.

G) 2013 is the first year that there will be mandatory caps on discretionary spending. These limits will result in a YoY decline in government spending.

H) The Federal Reserve has promised to keep interest rates at zero into 2013. While it is possible that the Fed could continue the madness for even longer, the reality is that interest rates have nowhere to go but up.

I) By January 2013 it will be painfully evident that the country’s key social programs, Social Security and Medicare will be running in the red at a pace that is far higher than anyone considered possible. The need for dramatic changes in these programs will have to come onto the table. The implications of this will be significant.

J) In 2013 the issues of Fannie, Freddie, FHA and the Federal Home Loan Banks must be addressed. The problems at the housing agencies has festered too long.

K) The country will face another debt ceiling extension. The last time cost us our AAA.

L) At some point in 2012 economic events (Probably Europe) will force the Fed into yet another round of QE. More LSAP and another increase in the Fed’s balance sheet. But when completed the Fed will have fired it’s last bullet. QE-3 will not achieve any better results than QE-1 or 2. The policy will be discredited as it achieves nothing positive and causes inflation. There are no credible options left for the Fed to fight the slowdown that HAS to occur when the effects of A – K are felt.


America looks like Mexico of the 70’s – 90’s. The last election cycle brought us the biggest economic crisis in 70 years. The next election will be no different. Dozens of landmines have been planted. They are timed to go off in 2013. Some may be fixed, others kicked further down the road. However the odds of the country addressing all of the things that have been programmed to explode is, in my opinion, close to zero. One or more of these things is going to trip us up. There are too many big issues to confront.

>> ^criticalthud:

@bmcs27 no i would call that a terrible waste of time. go ahead and look up the politics of landmines and you may be surprised at which country is both adamant about the production and continued use of them. and yeah, i've been to cambodia. another country we had absolutely no business sticking our nose into.
@NetRunner. "Al Queda" is a term created by the US government for a loose collection of groups who do not admire US foreign policy.
why are we there? well, before we hated the taliban, we loved em. but either way they are still sitting on trillions in minerals and rare earth deposits.
but hey, lets pretend little johnny is over there ensuring our safety from further crotch-bombers.


Your dead right on Cambodia, after all the horrific things Kissinger's lackeys did to there they followed it up by supporting the Khmer Rouge.

On Al-Qaida, you are just flat wrong. Bin Laden came up with the name for his particular cult of international islamic jihadists.

You are also wrong on the Taliban. During the push to remove the Soviets from Afghanistan, the American's backed Pakistan and it's training of Afghan and imported mujahideen warriors. Those mujahideen warriors were NOT the Taliban, they were a disparate collection of all manner of different local and imported fighters. The Taliban were not the only group to come from this Pakistan and American backed crowd, so where the Northern Alliance fighters whom the Taliban sought to destroy. It's fun to make cheap comments like yours, but that doesn't make them accurate or true.

@bmcs27 no i would call that a terrible waste of time. go ahead and look up the politics of landmines and you may be surprised at which country is both adamant about the production and continued use of them. and yeah, i've been to cambodia. another country we had absolutely no business sticking our nose into.

@NetRunner. "Al Queda" is a term created by the US government for a loose collection of groups who do not admire US foreign policy.

why are we there? well, before we hated the taliban, we loved em. but either way they are still sitting on trillions in minerals and rare earth deposits.

but hey, lets pretend little johnny is over there ensuring our safety from further crotch-bombers.

IMHO, we need a invocation to flag misogynistic and debased humor like this.

derogatory stuff like this forms landmines (in effect) for the unsuspecting female sifter.
it's not that i want to ban strip-clubs... just want to keep them out of church.

discuss?