In short-The small population of Arab natives along with a native Jewish minority welcomed a relatively small number of European Jewish refugees in the (edit:20’s and early) 30’s while under British rule (but with a date set for their independence by the League of Nations, a date that came and went without ever establishing a Palestinian state). Then in the 40’s (even by mid 30’s)the Jewish minority, America, and England ignored their pleas to minimize immigration, ignored immigration laws, and invited a major invasion, so many European Jews came illegally that the Arab natives quickly became the minority, then had all rights stripped by the now well armed invaders that now claimed their land and property…invaders that kept coming by the millions. How is that not an invasion of squatters?
It’s a complete abandonment of the Palestinian Mandate the Brits ruled under, which was allowed internationally after ww1 for the sole purpose of getting Palestine in a position to rule themselves, something the Brits failed to even try then actively sabotaged by supporting the mass immigration of millions of European Jews, and was the biggest possible “fuck off and die” to the Palestinian people that had cooperated fully with the international plan for their independent future that was unceremoniously stripped from them and handed to Israel.
From that point, details don’t matter so much. Invading occupying forces don’t get to whine because the natives won’t just go away and die….at least I’m not listening when they do. Want to stop being attacked, stop murdering innocents and taking land.

I wonder why you think Israel is not so dominant seeing as they already proved repeatedly their military dominance even when their neighbors band together. Not one of the countries you mentioned has an advanced military, they are last gen at best, really two or more generations behind, and have third world resources not trillions to spend. Iraq proved that advanced weapons beat numbers hands down every single time. Unless Iran gets a nuke capable of getting through the highest levels of missile defense on the planet, their “neighbors” (Palestines allies) pose no actual threat to Israel and a pretty minor threat to the expansionist settlers invading Palestine.

I never ignored any rolls of the neighbors supporting, arming, and instigating unrest…but those roles are minuscule compared to the actions of Israel. Nothing recruits for Hamas like the Israeli army. Nothing creates more terrorists than murderous settlers. No other factor has 1% the effect that Israel’s own actions do in creating enemies.
Murderous expansionist settlers should be eliminated with prejudice immediately. They are the biggest factor driving Israel’s murderous regime to murder more innocents.
If Israel acted civilly instead of treating the natives like the Nazis treated them, its neighbors couldn’t easily convince angry teens to pick up guns and shoot Israelis. Give the Palestinians something to lose, or they’ll have nothing to lose, a chip on their shoulder, and a clear enemy responsible for their plight. This is the official recipe for a terrorist.

Blaming the neighbors is like claiming N Carolina is RESPONSIBLE for all shootings in N Y because some guns used are procured there…nonsense. They are complicit, but minimally so. It’s the shooters motives you need to look at, not the store they use. Why are they so ready to sacrifice their lives to just shoot or throw rocks AT Israel (99/100 times hitting nothing)? Because they have nothing to lose but life in an ever shrinking ghetto ruled over by a foreign racist regime that wants them just gone and is more than happy to starve children to death and bomb refugee camps to accomplish that goal.
The neighbors didn’t invade, expel, ghettoize, and gleefully murder the Palestinian people, that was Israel.

Blaming the victims is not an argument that will win many over…and no question the Palestinian people are the TRUE and only victims.

Where are the European countries now…the same ones that facilitated the Jewish invasion should be obligated to enforce the borders, and/or take the Palestinian refugees and free them from the ghetto/prison Israel keeps them in….but none are.

Side note- I keep hearing people who support Palestinians described as anti semitic. It bears noting that European Jews, the VAST majority of Israelis, are NOT Semitic…but all Palestinians are. Being pro-Israel is actually and factually anti-Semitic.

I disagree with you on the "Zionists are all squatters" and related bits, but on the whole you've characterized alot of what is happening correctly. I can not accept though that 1930s and 40s Jewish Europeans seeking refuge amongst an existing community of Jewish Palestinians was the 'invasion' that Arab narratives claim it as.


That's also largely academic in the sense of what will happen. Israel is NOT so dominant that they can easily defeat Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Iran, Jordan or Saudi Arabia individually, let alone should they join forces. Perhaps more importantly, regardless of what the true comparison of military strength is, the neighbouring nations mentioned are NOT convinced. Al Jazeera spent the first two weeks after the attack crowing about how this proved how weak and ineffective Israel truly is and harolded the beginning of the end for them.

My two predictions:
1. Israel will continue to do anything they deem necessary to ensure the attack in October is viewed by Iran and the Arab world as another Naqba, rather than a victory.
2. Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Iran and to lesser degrees Jordan and Saudi will continue channeling weapons and support to any and all militant groups near Israel(mostly Palestine) to encourage and ensure they continue launching attacks into Israeli territory in the same continuous effort they have for the last decades.

The worst losers in it, as have been for the last decades you've noted, will continue to be the Palestinian people. Angry young Palestinians will be armed , trained and recruited with foreign money to attack the Israeli 'aggressor'. Thus leading to Israeli reprisal, more dead Palestinians and more angry young recruits.


I think my biggest point of difference with you is I'm not content to ignore the absolutely enormous role of other nations than Israel in the plight of the Palestinian people.

Agreed, the details are many, but trying to see what will happen in the future is simple, it’s the same thing that’s been happening in the past. Israel will continue to illegally expand into territory they agreed belongs to Palestinians, will continue to militarily support and defend the murderous settlers that murder Palestinian families and steal their land constantly with no repercussion at all, and will use any resistance to that violent expansion as an excuse to abuse and further control and murder the remaining citizens while blaming them for their plight.
That’s exactly what’s happening today.
The areas hit by Hamas were all Palestinian land stolen by settlers with full military support, not in Israel but in what was recently Palestine. The expansionist invasion continues, it’s never stopped, and some people don’t understand why the remaining civilians imprisoned in the ghetto by Israel, often with no food, water, or medicine, might revolt and throw stones, but you totally understand why the invaders should get to flatten entire populated cities if one of theirs gets hurt.

The population of Israel is 15 times Gaza, but the casualties of this 70 year conflict are statistically all Palestinians. Just this latest conflict has seen under 1400 Israeli casualties and over 15000 Palestinian civilians…nearly 5000 YOUNG children. THE NORM IS MUCH WORSE, normally this retaliation would come after fireworks hurt 4 settlers almost killing one and damaging their stolen house.

There’s something Americans can do. Vote for a president that will cut all military aid to countries that commit war crimes regularly. Simple, but not easy.

Israeli military is only so strong because we support them. Without American weapons and support, Israel would be a long distant memory of a short lived immigrant invasion.

Yes, Hamas has rhetorically been as genocidal as Israel (also totally genocidal)…but they have zero ability to follow through, while Israel is actively committing genocide today with the most advanced weaponry on the planet we supply, and for the last 70 years. If Israel directly eliminated Palestine as they have stated they will, they would start another war with every neighbor, this time likely without support. Otherwise they would have followed through 40+ years ago. This newest “occupation” may be the last. There will be no rebuilding under occupation, and there are few habitable structures left in Gaza. It’s a small town of 750000 people flattened, under total embargo, and under a shoot on sight order from their oppressors.

Yes, Israel is fighting its neighbors….100% because of their treatment of Palestinians and blatant intent to ignore any borders in their expansion. Combined with Iran their neighbors aren’t 1/2 the military power Israel is thanks 100% to America supplying advanced weapons and defense platforms for decades at our expense.

Invading occupying military forces have no right to complain they are threatened…that’s like saying we should hand squatters AR-15s and grenades because they keep being threatened by the home owners and the neighborhood, and the squatters have every right to shoot neighbors in their own yards if they seem threatening, but the neighbors and home owners have no rights whatsoever, not even the right to leave home because that threatens the squatters. Not even the right of self defense when the squatters invite their family over to take the neighbor’s homes.
I prefer shooting squatters and dumping the bodies in the sewer where they belong. Zionists are all squatters….well armed squatters.

The squatters do not have the right to murder the neighbors who signed the petition to remove the violent squatters. The squatters are always the wrong party no matter what. Period. End on line.


Because Israel intends to act unilaterally and violently to ensure their defense and continued expansion, always at the expense of their neighbors, they should be abandoned by the rest of the world. Murderous expansionist invading occupying racist armies get zero sympathy, and there’s no such thing as an Israeli civilian, they do not exist, only those yet to be military, andtive military, and those in reserve…conversely there’s no such thing as a Palestinian soldier in Gaza…does not exist.

Militaries that attack civilian populations are war criminals…every time. Yes, that includes America in Afghanistan, but bears noting the Afghans protected Alkaida (sp?), the Palestinian government and most civilians do not support Hamas.
I do not want to be supporting foreign war crimes with my tax dollars.

Tragically it's all more complicated than anyone can really state, right? I mean, if you had a 30 book(10k pages a book) series solely on the conditions in the region of Palestine between 1930 and today you'd still have so much material to cut, you could limit all 30 books to only 1 sides POV.

The closest I see to shortcutting things, is trying view what is likely to happen in the future, and from that maybe what one might try and do.

The trouble being there's so little one can do. The reality is that Israeli military strength compared to Palestine is completely and entirely one sided, and thus Israel can and will do whatever it wishes to militarily. It's all their choice, period. In fairness to Israel, you have to note that Hamas as stated in their own charter, given that same power would've already cleansed the entirety of Israel and have created their own single state 'final' solution.

It's also not actually about Palestine vs. Israel, which should be obvious given the fact of Israel's military dominance. Israel IS really facing existentially threats of it's own, just not directly from Palestine, and instead from ALL of it's neighbours. That state of constantly requiring Israel to be capable of winning an existential war since it's inception has kept things in a perpetual state of near-war, and more often proxy-war with the Palestiniances as the pawns of alternately Iran, Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and others depending which time and region we choose to look at.

Predictively, that gives us that Isreal can not, under any circumstances, accept conditions to exist where any party(in particular Iran as the main backer) views the "Al Aqsa Flood operation" as a success. That means Israel will do whatever they deem necessary to ensure that happens and Iran in particular views that operation as a mistake. Nothing the UN or any of the rest of us say or do can change that.

More MAGA child abuse insanity, Republican Congressman Derrick Van Orden from Wisconsin is in hot water after he screamed profanities at a group of young exhausted senate pages that were resting in the Capitol Rotunda after working all night serving the senate for free, like they’ve done for decades.
Not the first time, he also threatened a young underage female library page/volunteer in Wisconsin for setting up the library’s gay pride month display and verbally abused her so badly she never returned to her job.

Screaming obscenities at young children for doing their job (when they aren’t having sex with them)…THAT’S today’s MAGA.

D’oh! Tried to erase the server AFTER getting the subpoena! Pretty sure his obstruction and destruction of evidence attempt was also recorded…recorded on the server that was recovered. Also recovered, the war plans for attacking Iran that Trump showed known Chinese agents, also recorded, that Trump now claims didn’t happen. 😂
And Georgia is ready to indict, get ready.
Then likely Jan 6 charges.
Than possibly AZ charges.
Give it time. 😂

Bonus- Another “smoking gun” fails today with Devon Archer, Hunter Biden’s business partner who testified that on some occasions during dinner, even some business dinners, Hunter would put Joe on speaker phone to say hello, but never, not one time in 10 years did he ever discuss any business when his father was on the line. They talked about Bo, who had cancer, and the family, and some pleasantries. He also testified to having no knowledge whatsoever about any bribes to Hunter or Joe. Republicans had hyped this witness as the smoking gun connecting Hunter’s business dealings with Joe, and said he had personal knowledge of bribes…turned out to be the exact opposite of what Republicans claimed, as usual.
(Edit) Er mer gerd…just heard the insanity they’ve been feeding you all weekend about him…claiming the DOJ was trying to put Archer in prison Sunday night to stop him from testifying because he recently lost his appeal on fraud charges (completely unrelated to Hunter) and as is the normal process the DOJ sent the letter to the judge that starts the incarceration process that weeks or months later ends with him actually in prison serving the sentence he’s already received….and when no such obstruction or imprisonment happened they declared victory against the weaponized DOJ that they say caved to their strength and now allowed him to testify….to and about absolutely nothing criminal! You fools! This is the important work your reps are doing on your behalf….idiotic nonsense hearings with no purpose no evidence and no power to do anything about anything. I bet you’re lapping it up. 😂

Yesterday your boy Thomas was caught taking more bribes, these were direct cash payments from lawyers with cases before the Supreme Court that made donations through Thomas’s clerk for “Clarence Thomas Xmas”.
Somebody needs to “remove” those “conservative judges” that have sold the highest court in the land to the highest bidder while thumbing their nose at America and seize 200% of their assets (put them and their heirs tens of millions deep in debt).

Today Republican house members are under investigation for harboring a spy and fugitive, namely Gal Luft, who turns out to be a spy for China among other crimes like bribing high level Trump officials to sway Trump public policy in ways that benefited China and harmed America, and other serious crimes like arms dealing and the secret sale and smuggling of embargoed oil from Iran to China, and who they publicly stated they knew was a spy who had jumped bail in February before fleeing the country. It sure sounds like the MAGA republicans likely aided and abetted and helped hide a direct enemy of America, tried to grant him whistleblower status to protect him from prosecution…all of which may be treason! 😂
Another total failure of MAGA’s schemes to slander Biden.
Another “whistleblower” that turns out to be completely unreliable like EVERY SINGLE MAGA WHISTLEBLOWER, more serious MAGA criminality in efforts to hurt their political rivals, more siding with the enemies of America over the USA. You traitors deserve nothing but a cigarette and blindfold.

You’ll love this…the Trump aid in the room as he shared the top secret highly classified battle plans for attacking Iran on tape (and verified under oath by everyone in the room besides lying Trump), Susan Wiles, works for a Chinese lobbying firm.
Yes, Trump showed military top secret documents to people he knew are paid by the Chinese to put Chinese interests above America.

Cue baseless denial and whataboutism in 3….2….1

The context isn’t missing. You just don’t like it.
He was bragging and defending himself against accusations that he wanted to invade Iran by showing the secret plans and saying "Well, with Milley -- uh, let me see that, I'll show you an example. He said that I wanted to attack Iran. Isn't that amazing? I have a big pile of papers, this thing just came up. Look. This was him. They presented me this -- this is off the record, but -- they presented me this. This was him. This was the Defense Department and him, We looked at some. This was him. This wasn't done by me, this was him. All sorts of stuff -- pages long, look. Wait a minute, let’s see here. I just found, isn’t that amazing? This totally wins my case, you know. Except it is like, highly confidential. Secret. This is secret information. Look, look at this. This was done by the military and given to me."
This recording is from summer 2021 when Trump spoke to a team who was researching a book written by Mark Meadows and some of his own staff, none of which had clearance. This is the same document he said he could have declassified but didn’t, so it’s still top secret. Look!
The transcript is part of the now public indictment. You won’t hear about it on right wing propaganda outlets, because it’s all unthinkably treasonous.
The photos are also from that indictment, and some are reported to show party goers posing with the boxes full of stolen classified documents (faces blurred to protect the innocent party goers).

Pretty hilarious the insane convoluted theories you’re willing to accept without a shred of evidence just because some random guy on the internet said it was true once, but when presented with a sworn indictment containing direct audio tape and testimonial evidence of Trump sharing what he admitted were highly classified state secrets with random people with no security clearance and evidence he stored classified state secrets in ball rooms he rented out with them on stage complete with photos you need more context. 🤦‍♂️

Edit: Be honest with yourself if you can…we know the truth you don’t have to say it….if the charges were against Biden with the same evidence you would be screaming for the firing squad, wouldn’t you. (I would just insist on a trial first)

Really?! Just like all knew Jan 6 was ANTIFA, like everyone knows Trump won and Democrats cheated to the tune of tens of millions of votes, but perfectly with zero traces, like everyone knows Covid is just a cold and won’t last 3 months? It’s true, both sides have corruption, but one side punishes and ostracizes those in their camp caught being corrupt, one side makes corruption their party platform and celebrates their members caught flagrantly violating ethics and finance rules, gladly donating towards paying their fines and shielding them from most consequences.

Point to the time Republicans put forth a serious bill to remove dark money that Democrats said no. I don’t think you can, nor can you deny Republicans just voted FOR corruption in government…and not for the first time….you just need to make up fake and false equivalents to pretend blatant Republican corruption is normal.

I’ll point you to Citizens United, the main cause of dark money in politics today, which started as an anti Clinton Republican movie that filed suit and appealed up to the conservative Supreme Court to allow corporations to spend essentially unlimited amounts in secret on political advertising and campaigns (because their “movie” was clearly a political advertisement with secret backers), or to say it plainly, they sued to legalize corporate bribery and conservatives loved it.

Again, point to some “egg on their face” instances that were Democrats fighting for dark money and Republicans trying to ban it, I can point to many times Democrats tried to ban it and Republicans blocked all efforts.

Republicans won’t even limit dark money, and can’t compete on equal funding so refuse to consider getting rid of it.

If you want bribery to be illegal, vote blue.
If you want freedoms beyond just what’s church approved (like in Iran), vote blue.
If you want ethics in government, vote blue.
If you want to fund border control better instead of using its lack of funding as a political ploy knowing your constituents are too dumb to see who caused the surge, vote blue.*
If you want publicly funded campaigns, vote blue.

*https://rollcall.com/2022/04/27/senate-republicans-balk-on-funds-related-to-bidens-border-move/

Close. I retired by choice, and I have a non work related injury totally unrelated to being able to retire at 30, but not a debilitating injury. I’ve been a professional driver, janitor, welder/fabricator, and editor. Good choices, good timing, good luck, and being an insanely cheap bastard affords me a very comfortable lifestyle including international vacations and (ridiculously) 5 cars with my wife in California for around $35k a year with no handouts.

Why watch? Only because people with morals and ethics want to know the facts not just biased spin…clearly not on your radar.
It’s not one sided, it’s just insurrectionist free. It only has 2 Republicans because Trump Republicans made the conscious choice to “boycott “ it. Cry me a river.
There’s no counter argument because that’s not how investigations work. Investigations are held to find evidence, not debate it. If there was any honest contradictory evidence to be had, even just sworn testimony, they have been clear that would love to listen under oath on the record, but there isn’t, no one on Trump’s side actually wants to testify at all, no matter what they say on OAN or Blaze. They just ignore subpoenas and pretend they have a legal shield…which is why Bannon and others might well go to prison for years.
You get a defense at trial, which is coming. They could try to present evidence, but they have nothing but lies whimpers and whines to offer.

It’s Trumpists who want the truth hidden, uninvestigated, forgotten, and ignored. They want to hear lies or silence because the truth is they turned on America and democracy because one election didn’t go their way.

I do know better, I know that’s not what this thorough investigation Republicans fought against and boycotted is about, it’s about holding those responsible for a deadly but failed coup responsible. Those opposed to holding traitorous terrorists who attacked America responsible should move to Iran, there’s no place for them in America.

Yes…brilliant in fact…and moral to the extreme, and ethical beyond reproach, and a genuinely nice, thoughtful person too. None of those traits are positives to you though.
And let’s not forget, besides sea testing new nuclear submarines he was also “assisting in the design and development of nuclear propulsion plants for naval vessels.”…but only reached LT, not Captain.

Explain, specifically how was he poor as president?
Because he didn’t go to war in Iran (nor would he break the law and collude with them and sell them weapons like Reagan)?
Because he advocated for renewable energy that would have made us energy independent in the 80’s and oil free before 2000?
Exactly what?

Oh Bob. Always a laugh with you. The unintended self deprecation always brightens my day.

Not what I meant…because it was promised by the British long before WW2…as if it was really theirs to gift. Then they half assed the handoff and just walked away, at least that’s my take. It wasn’t handed to anyone as reparations…I know that.

The Palestinians have bled for that land at least 10 fold the amount Israeli have….just sayin.

I meant in a practical and ethical sense it would have made more sense for them to take part of Germany as actual reparations.

What I mean is the military equipment and funding we gifted them, and continue to gift them, without which they would have been destroyed in the 50’s.

Yes, in the 50’s through 80’s the Arab world was an obstacle to peace at least as much as Israel, but not so much recently….Iran being the main exception. The fact that the Arab world is at least 3 generations of military equipment behind means they aren’t a serious threat and haven’t been since America started defending them in the 50’s.

When they, as a people, invade a recently sovereign land and take it by force, then brutally subjugate the natives in the name of their safety for decades while expanding into their last remaining holdings constantly, all the while playing the victim, I’m 100% prepared to say the Jewish invaders are the bad guys….that’s anyone not granted refugee status by the Palestinians….likely over 99%. The refugees that didn’t take part in the violent bloody nation grab and subjugation and who went back home I do not blame.
.

For my understanding, the general meaning of the word "Zionism" is vastly changed throughout the eras. And there isn't a homogeneous kind of Zionism anyway. What kind of "Zionist agenda" the people/government living in the land of "Israel/Palestine" in the 30-50s to today had in mind and pushing for is totally different. Let's be concerned with today's general definition of Zionism, as mostly defined by the Likud and the other far-right/Nationalist parties in today's Israel shall we?

Also, I can't imagine there are a whole lot of countries that would deny Israel's right-to-exist (like, physically, wholeheartedly want to wipe them of the face of the earth kind, NOT the expedient, political rhetorics for their own domestic consumption kind). And those that could really be crazy enough, like Iran, I constantly (naively?) felt the Ayatollahs would rather opt for silent, staus-quo relations than go to war with Israel (they must see the Ukraine invaison and see Russia/Putin isolation as a lesson, they can't afford to put themselves in the same position as Putin's in a Israel/Iran war. The Ayatollahs don't have even Iranian people standing behind them).

The good is that for Israel vs. the Arab countries, trust building is possible, but incredibly slow -- it only takes one wrong step to negate a mile of trust building -- but still, the past few years have seen some Arab countries opening up bilateral embassies with Israel along wiht increased trades & direct flights, etc.

The no good, very bad news of the statehood issues, daily IvP conflict, land grabs and from low-level militray incursions to the occasional missiles trading military operations, are happening far too often. Thus making hard-core Zionism, support of Hamas, the isolation of the Palestinian people & economy, etc. all the more severe. None of these are paths towards peace and/or creating the conditions for mutually agreeable settlement. All the flashpoints needs to be addressed in an even-handed way. But we just don't see balance in the media and/or the world political arena.

No, he lucked out, but Trump’s foreign policy was worse. He just capitulated to international thugs, cozied up to them except Iran. That’s why Ukraine was already occupied and Crimea recognized. It’s why N Korea advanced their capabilities so much. It’s why the Taliban gained so much power in 2020. He actually claimed China used biological warfare against us (utter bullshit, but his position), but made no moves against them in retaliation. No wars happen if you don’t oppose our enemies.

Biden isn’t my god, he’s far from perfect, he’s just an improvement. Being instrumental in opposing Assad gassing his own people is a bad thing? I was disappointed we didn’t depose him quickly with international support.

The Ukrainian parliament threw Yanukovych out in Feb 2014 on the grounds that he "has restrained himself from performing his constitutional duties" and effectively resigned. He had surprised everyone by abandoning an agreement made with Europe to be part of a free trade union, shocking the country, and instead intended to strengthen ties with Russia, and had been murdering protesters in the streets when he fled the country.

The people of Ukraine and Russia will suffer. Germany too. Probably all NATO nations….and all countries dependent on Russian aid.

My idea would have been to threaten Putin months ago that if one MORE Russian soldier or piece of military equipment crosses the border into Ukraine, we will fast track Ukraine into the UN immediately, permanently recognizing their actual borders, if he doesn’t send more military, we can negotiate peacefully with UN status on hold…and get solidarity with our allies on the plan. Maybe simplistic, but it’s what he fears, use it.

Sky News!? That’s like Fox on meth without the pretext that they’re pro-America. Foreign Anti American propaganda from an anti democracy anti America foreigner.
Love the way you love those who absolutely hate America so consistently.

Sorry, @bobknight33….the only reasons Trump didn’t start any wars (and boy did he want to) are 1) his advisors repeatedly talked him down from most, but not all provocations (how we avoided war in Iran I’ll never know, multiple assassinations often lead to war, especially when you murder generals and their entourage on foreign soil.)
And 2) he never contradicted or stood up to our enemies, he courted, praised, and capitulated to them completely. Why would Russia go to war when we completely ignored their invasions and expansion and took their word over our own intelligence community?

Derp….the pipeline Trump’s whining about was cancelled by the Germans. How great an idea to have them spend billions then cancel certification!

I know you have the memory of a meth head gnat, but come on, Bobby. Are you really that clueless….oh wait, yes you are. You just claimed Russia didn’t invade under Trump a day or two ago.

You didn’t just fail current events and history class here, Bob, you got a 12% average. Once again, you make it impossible to believe you graduated from an American college, difficult to believe you graduated high school. So sad.