No vote from me because rather than just being informative, the video strongly pushes an anti-circumcision agenda, spouts lies about how wonderfully more sensitive the foreskin is intact, and ignores all the common complications of non-circumcision.

I've heard from countless people like a few members above who had sex before and (long) after having an adult circumcision who almost 100% of the time state there's no discernible difference in sensation whatsoever.

Furthermore, most of the time adult circumcision performed due to a lot of common complications of the foreskin. E.g., the foreskin doesn't stretch upon erection so it feels like it's tearing, the foreskin dries and attaches itself to the head of the penis, etc.

What's more is there are a lot of recent studies indicating that the transmission of HIV and the proliferation of HPV into penile cancer are vastly more likely in an uncircumcised man.

>> ^quantumushroom:

it is correct that you should not judge other cultures by the standards of your own , but I don't know anyone that makes the argument that all cultural values are equal that's nether a left or right , conservative or liberal mind set.
If you believe that "you should not judge other cultures by the standards of your own" then you have no moral authority to judge the muslims. The irony is, while the Bible states "Judge not lest ye be judged" it doesn't mean anarchy for all, nor does it mean keep silent in the face of evil.
I don't know what planet y'all are from that you're suddenly offended by linking modern liberalism with moral relativism, but from what I see, it's the left that's constantly assaulting all of the moral and religious institutions. Not questioning, ASSAULTING, and making end runs around honest debate.
of the libral and "left" people I know they would use science to inform there position and stance as to weather a cultural practise was a good or bad one , and historically its more liberal and left groups that have taken action to stop circumcision and the spred of HIV in Africa and pore countries though promotion of safe sex and fee contraceptives.
Funny you mention "science", because the scientific proof is that circumcision REDUCES the transmission of HIV drastically. Science alone has no moral component.

In the case of assaulting a minor without there consent I think its pretty well established that this is not a "good" thing whatever political back ground sum-one adopts.
'Child-rape is not a 'good' thing.'
If that's the best denouncement of child-rape, I suggest better PR.



>> ^westy:
>> ^quantumushroom:
According to leftist doctrine, we are never to judge other cultures by the standards

of our own, as all cultural values are equal. The witch doctor and the neurosurgeon are on the same level. Christians proselytize, muslims rape children. Values-wise, there is no difference.

it is correct that you should not judge other cultures by the standards of your own , but I don't know anyone that makes the argument that all cultural values are equal that's nether a left or right , conservative or liberal mind set.
of the libral and "left" people I know they would use science to inform there position and stance as to weather a cultural practise was a good or bad one , and historically its more liberal and left groups that have taken action to stop circumcision and the spred of HIV in Africa and pore countries though promotion of safe sex and fee contraceptives.
In the case of assaulting a minor without there consent I think its pretty well established that this is not a "good" thing whatever political back ground sum-one adopts.




"If you believe that "you should not judge other cultures by the standards of your own" then you have no moral authority to judge the muslims. The irony is, while the Bible states "Judge not lest ye be judged" it doesn't mean anarchy for all, nor does it mean keep silent in the face of ev"

what I was saying is that BY DEFAULT you cannot make a claim that one arbitrary cultural accepted thing is better than another arbatrerry cultural thing.

"Funny you mention "science", because the scientific proof is that circumcision REDUCES the transmission of HIV drastically. Science alone has no moral component. "

You are right male circumcision does have a small affect in reducing transimtion of HIV ( its not drastic and the studies done are not conclusive) eather way contraception and education has a grater effect at reducing hiv and it is by using the scientific method we know this , also I was actually talking about female circumcision as much as male , The actual piont i was making still stands , historicaly it has been people that are more liberal/"left" that have promoted contraception , and it has been concervitievs that have been anti contraception and ignored scientific evidence and continued to use religion and dogma guide there thinking.

Finally its very hard for me to understand what points you are actually making or what you are actually getting at I cannot tell what position you have on things the way you write is all over the place for me ( i'm not saying how you write is inherently wrong just for me I struggle to understand what you are actually getting at due to the way you right).

I also think the use of left and right termanoligy confuses the issue, in america your left and right is different to englands and even within america it seems people have different understandings of what is exactly a left or right mentality. It would probably be easer if defined a mentality or thinking in a more precise way or made an argument with you saying , "if people x with x mentality think this then they are wrong to think x " that way it would be easy to agree or disagree with the statement.

it is correct that you should not judge other cultures by the standards of your own , but I don't know anyone that makes the argument that all cultural values are equal that's nether a left or right , conservative or liberal mind set.

If you believe that "you should not judge other cultures by the standards of your own" then you have no moral authority to judge the muslims. The irony is, while the Bible states "Judge not lest ye be judged" it doesn't mean anarchy for all, nor does it mean keep silent in the face of evil.

I don't know what planet y'all are from that you're suddenly offended by linking modern liberalism with moral relativism, but from what I see, it's the left that's constantly assaulting all of the moral and religious institutions. Not questioning, ASSAULTING, and making end runs around honest debate.

of the libral and "left" people I know they would use science to inform there position and stance as to weather a cultural practise was a good or bad one , and historically its more liberal and left groups that have taken action to stop circumcision and the spred of HIV in Africa and pore countries though promotion of safe sex and fee contraceptives.

Funny you mention "science", because the scientific proof is that circumcision REDUCES the transmission of HIV drastically. Science alone has no moral component.


In the case of assaulting a minor without there consent I think its pretty well established that this is not a "good" thing whatever political back ground sum-one adopts.

'Child-rape is not a 'good' thing.'

If that's the best denouncement of child-rape, I suggest better PR.







>> ^westy:

>> ^quantumushroom:
According to leftist doctrine, we are never to judge other cultures by the standards


of our own, as all cultural values are equal. The witch doctor and the neurosurgeon are on the same level. Christians proselytize, muslims rape children. Values-wise, there is no difference.

it is correct that you should not judge other cultures by the standards of your own , but I don't know anyone that makes the argument that all cultural values are equal that's nether a left or right , conservative or liberal mind set.
of the libral and "left" people I know they would use science to inform there position and stance as to weather a cultural practise was a good or bad one , and historically its more liberal and left groups that have taken action to stop circumcision and the spred of HIV in Africa and pore countries though promotion of safe sex and fee contraceptives.
In the case of assaulting a minor without there consent I think its pretty well established that this is not a "good" thing whatever political back ground sum-one adopts.

>> ^quantumushroom:

According to leftist doctrine, we are never to judge other cultures by the standards of our own, as all cultural values are equal. The witch doctor and the neurosurgeon are on the same level. Christians proselytize, muslims rape children. Values-wise, there is no difference.


it is correct that you should not judge other cultures by the standards of your own , but I don't know anyone that makes the argument that all cultural values are equal that's nether a left or right , conservative or liberal mind set.

of the libral and "left" people I know they would use science to inform there position and stance as to weather a cultural practise was a good or bad one , and historically its more liberal and left groups that have taken action to stop circumcision and the spred of HIV in Africa and pore countries though promotion of safe sex and fee contraceptives.

In the case of assaulting a minor without there consent I think its pretty well established that this is not a "good" thing whatever political back ground sum-one adopts.

dannym3141:

Claiming that people should stop burning fossil fuels would HEAVILY dent the income of just about every country because of how much tax they can charge from it. Britain's economy is almost based on fossil fuel tax. How can you possibly argue that they are a politically influenced source over fossil fuel use when they criticise such a money earner?

Politics aside, fossil fuels remain the cheapest, most abundant source of energy, and new supplies of it are being discovered all the time. I never said people should stop burning them.

I hesitate to even mention that "science" as a global community is above reproach in ways that hardly anything else can be due to the method of a scientist. If you are not performing science for truth and discovery, you are not a scientist, so you're not part of the community anymore. That's why it's above reproach. I'm sure you'll argue with me about that, but i know that you'd argue about the time of day if you were proven to be wrong.

I'm not arguing, but I am astonished you would believe scientists are above politics (and reproach), not because the scientific method is flawed, but because scientists are fallible humans with their own beliefs and interests. As W. Pennypacker said in so many words, governments reward scientists which confirm a pre-determined outcome (like secondhand smoke killing 100 billion people a year). Junk science is real; it may not be everywhere, but it's out there. And not just "the oil companies" which have "scientitians" in their corner.

Another thing, gang. Over the last few years, global warming hysteria has been relentless. It's the alarmists who declared, "The debate is over." There was even one smug a-hole who compared "climate deniers" to Holocaust deniers. Classy! There was the faked data scandal. These are not the actions of scientists confident in their conclusions. Yet the lazy media continues to back the alarmists without question.

100 storylines blaming climate change as the problem:

1. The deaths of Aspen trees in the West
2. Incredible shrinking sheep
3. Caribbean coral deaths
4. Eskimos forced to leave their village
5. Disappearing lake in Chile
6. Early heat wave in Vietnam
7. Malaria and water-borne diseases in Africa
8. Invasion of jellyfish in the Mediterranean
9. Break in the Arctic Ice Shelf
10. Monsoons in India
11. Birds laying their eggs early
12. 160,000 deaths a year
13. 315,000 deaths a year
14. 300,000 deaths a year
15. Decline in snowpack in the West
16. Deaths of walruses in Alaska
17. Hunger in Nepal
18. The appearance of oxygen-starved dead zones in the oceans
19. Surge in fatal shark attacks
20. Increasing number of typhoid cases in the Philippines
21. Boy Scout tornado deaths
22. Rise in asthma and hayfever
23. Duller fall foliage in 2007
24. Floods in Jakarta
25. Radical ecological shift in the North Sea
26. Snowfall in Baghdad
27. Western tree deaths
28. Diminishing desert resources
29. Pine beetles
30. Swedish beetles
31. Severe acne
32. Global conflict
33. Crash of Air France 447
34. Black Hawk Down incident
35. Amphibians breeding earlier
36. Flesh-eating disease
37. Global cooling
38. Bird strikes on US Airways 1549
39. Beer tastes different
40. Cougar attacks in Alberta
41. Suicide of farmers in Australia
42. Squirrels reproduce earlier
43. Monkeys moving to Great Rift Valley in Kenya
44. Confusion of migrating birds
45. Bigger tuna fish
46. Water shortages in Las Vegas
47. Worldwide hunger
48. Longer days
49. Earth spinning faster
50. Gender balance of crocodiles
51. Skin cancer deaths in UK
52. Increase in kidney stones in India
53. Penguin chicks frozen by global warming
54. Deaths of Minnesota moose
55. Increased threat of HIV/AIDS in developing countries
56. Increase of wasps in Alaska
57. Killer stingrays off British coasts
58. All societal collapses since the beginning of time
59. Bigger spiders
60. Increase in size of giant squid
61. Increase of orchids in UK
62. Collapse of gingerbread houses in Sweden
63. Cow infertility
64. Conflict in Darfur
65. Bluetongue outbreak in UK cows
66. Worldwide wars
67. Insomnia of children worried about global warming
68. Anxiety problems for people worried about climate change
69. Migration of cockroaches
70. Taller mountains due to melting glaciers
71. Drowning of four polar bears
72. UFO sightings in the UK
73. Hurricane Katrina
74. Greener mountains in Sweden
75. Decreased maple in maple trees
76. Cold wave in India
77. Worse traffic in LA because immigrants moving north
78. Increase in heart attacks and strokes
79. Rise in insurance premiums
80. Invasion of European species of earthworm in UK
81. Cold spells in Australia
82. Increase in crime
83. Boiling oceans
84. Grizzly deaths
85. Dengue fever
86. Lack of monsoons
87. Caterpillars devouring 45 towns in Liberia
88. Acid rain recovery
89. Global wheat shortage; food price hikes
90. Extinction of 13 species in Bangladesh
91. Changes in swan migration patterns in Siberia
92. The early arrival of Turkey’s endangered caretta carettas
93. Radical North Sea shift
94. Heroin addiction
95. Plant species climbing up mountains
96. Deadly fires in Australia
97. Droughts in Australia
98. The demise of California’s agriculture by the end of the century
99. Tsunami in South East Asia
100. Fashion victim: the death of the winter wardrobe


Do you really expect free people to surrender to THIS?

Why WAIT? Haven't these gullible girls watched Mtv? Don't they wanna shake it for gold teef rappers?

These days marriage is optional (unless you're gay, then it's mandatory). Fathers for children are also optional, government will just pick up the tab for everything, it never runs out of money! Did you know you can buy milk on the cheap or get it free with 'food cards', and all the high schools now have daycare centers? And 'free' health care is just around the corner, cause those herp and HIV meds ain't cheap. All these modern wonders also free babydaddy to keep up his active lifestyle with others, for to deny a 15-year-old anything is akin to a crime.

If you don't like being punished with a baby, there's always the "Casey Clause" to get you out and free you up for more partying! Get in the game, Girl! You're nobody unless you're workin' it!

Funny that you should tell KnivesOut to educate himself and refer him to a link to wikipedia when in a previous comment you said "quoting from the liberally biased wikipedia doesn't help your case.". So are you suggesting that a liberal bias only helps your case and not anybody else's? It's also funny that you should be telling people to educate themselves about NLP when in your comment on your video you call NLP " the mind control technique of NLP, which is nero logistical programming". Seriously, NERO LOGISTICAL???? I give up, for me that pretty much somes up your intellectual investment in this thread.

PS: To quote wikipedia "NLP has been largely ignored by conventional social science in part due to a lack of professional credibility and insufficient empirical evidence to substantiate its effectiveness,[14][15] and is characterized by its critics, mainly psychologists, as a fringe psychotherapy or as having pseudoscientific characteristics, disputing its title, concepts, and terminology".>> ^shinyblurry:

medicare is unconstitutional, humanists have conspired to replace creation with evolution (i have 100 quotes from secular humanists proving this), this world will end climate change or not, and all sin leads to death
in any case, NLP isnt something the AAPS came up with..why dont you read a little bit about it and educate yourself
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming
a lot of famous "magicians" use it in their acts..for example, when they go up to someone and say a bunch of nonsense words and phrases in rapid succession and the subject collapses like a switch was flipped..thats NLP
>> ^KnivesOut:
Some of the other lies published by the Association of American Physicians:

• that the Food and Drug Administration and Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services are unconstitutional


• that "humanists" have conspired to replace the "creation religion of Jehovah" with evolution


• that human activity has not contributed to climate change, and that global warming will be beneficial and thus not a cause for concern


• that HIV does not cause AIDS


• that the "gay male lifestyle" shortens life expectancy by 20 years.

medicare is unconstitutional, humanists have conspired to replace creation with evolution (i have 100 quotes from secular humanists proving this), this world will end climate change or not, and all sin leads to death

in any case, NLP isnt something the AAPS came up with..why dont you read a little bit about it and educate yourself

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming

a lot of famous "magicians" use it in their acts..for example, when they go up to someone and say a bunch of nonsense words and phrases in rapid succession and the subject collapses like a switch was flipped..thats NLP
>> ^KnivesOut:
Some of the other lies published by the Association of American Physicians:

• that the Food and Drug Administration and Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services are unconstitutional



• that "humanists" have conspired to replace the "creation religion of Jehovah" with evolution



• that human activity has not contributed to climate change, and that global warming will be beneficial and thus not a cause for concern



• that HIV does not cause AIDS



• that the "gay male lifestyle" shortens life expectancy by 20 years.

Some of the other *lies published by the Association of American Physicians:

• that the Food and Drug Administration and Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services are unconstitutional


• that "humanists" have conspired to replace the "creation religion of Jehovah" with evolution


• that human activity has not contributed to climate change, and that global warming will be beneficial and thus not a cause for concern


• that HIV does not cause AIDS


• that the "gay male lifestyle" shortens life expectancy by 20 years.

>> ^Ryjkyj:

>> ^Kofi:
Has claimed .... has claimed ... has claimed

I realize that it is still very early in this case, and that a working cure for AIDS has not yet been found. But the word "claimed" is never said in this video at all, by anyone, so I'm curious where you're getting that from? Could it be that you're having a knee-jerk reaction because all the "cure" claims for so many other afflictions that float around the internet? Although this is only one case, the news is still huge.


It really is a cure, not just claimed. The catch is the kind of complete marrow transplant he underwent has a ridiculously high mortality rate. In point of fact, for most patients, their survivability is much, much better just staying on standard HIV treatments, even if it means never being fully cured.

Reposting my comment from this video, which is relevant here as well (as is the ensuing discussion in the comments).

>> ^hpqp:

@[circumcision]apologists: you have NO ethical nor medical arguments on your side; you irretrievably mutilated a child. Worse: the child's sexual organs. Worser still: for the sake of an ancient, barbaric tradition. It is an ethno-cultural branding that that child will never be able to reverse. It is worse than tattooing your name on the child's buttcheek, because at least those are removable (tattoos, not buttcheeks).
If an adult wants to get circumcised, retighten her vagina or change sexes altogether, may they feel free to do so. BUT KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF OF CHILDREN'S BODIES! It is bad enough that many kids have to endure the poisonous bile of their parents' beliefs (racism, homophobia, etc.), but once again, at least that is not incurable.

( not "yours" to mutilate)
On circumcision and HIV "study"
Where the tradition of circumcision comes from in the west (excluding Jews/Muslims)

/rant

>> ^Ryjkyj:

>> ^hpqp:
@apologists: you have NO ethical nor medical arguments on your side

Pfft...
It seems your opinion was considered very popular back in 1971. I had no idea.
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/118/1/385.full


Did you read the part about cultural bias? The article you linked starts off promisingly:

"The American public remains resolute in its support of newborn circumcision despite negative recommendations from the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP)." Oh, so if the majority wants it...

The writer of the article: Edgar Schoen, Jew, maintainer of medicirc.org and member of the "Hill of Foreskins" society (Gilgal society). Noooo bias whatsoever there.


As for the actual "medical benefits" of circumcision, give me a f*cking break. "Prevents phimosis"? That's exactly like saying removing your toes prevents ingrown toenails. Phimosis is not only rare, but usually easily cured, as are most cases of UTI (btw, all the other fancy names that follow phimosis in the article are variations of the same thing). No need for mutilating your baby.


The most horrible and aberrant argument is the one concerning STDs and HIV... seriously, wtf?

Kids should not be having sex before the age of consent*; argument null!

(*that includes not being sucked off by some herpes-infested mohel.)



After that, it comes down to three things: hygiene, condoms and choice. Personal choice, not parental or communal pressure.

If it's all about prevention (a big effing lie), why not take out their tonsils? Or appendix? Or cut off the earlobes? Why not sterilize anyone who already has HIV? See where this goes?

@apologists: you have NO ethical nor medical arguments on your side; you irretrievably mutilated a* child. Worse: the child's sexual organs. Worser still: for the sake of an ancient, barbaric tradition. It is an ethno-cultural branding that that child will never be able to reverse. It is worse than tattooing your name on the child's buttcheek, because at least those are removable (tattoos, not buttcheeks).

If an adult wants to get circumcised, retighten her vagina or change sexes altogether, may they feel free to do so. BUT KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF OF CHILDREN'S BODIES! It is bad enough that many kids have to endure the poisonous bile of their parents' beliefs (racism, homophobia, etc.), but once again, at least that is not incurable.


(*not "yours" to mutilate)

On circumcision and HIV "study"
Where the tradition of circumcision comes from in the west (excluding Jews/Muslims)


/rant


@chilaxe I upvoted your comment for its cynical irony, but just to be clear about the second point for those who might take its origins seriously: the "study" that claims circumcision reduces possibility of contracting STDs is far from scientific. Moreover, it was conducted in three African countries with a poor record hygiene-wise. I doubt such a study would yield the same results in western countries. (the US has the highest rates of circumcision and HIV for a western country... but correlation is not causation, I know)

prohibition will never work as well as regulation and control.

i know its now redundant to bring up prohibition.....but it is still, and will very much continue to be, an extremely valid point: we tried it. it was fucking stupid. we reversed it. problem solved. how is marijuana and other drugs or prostitution for that matter any different? speaking of prostitution, the Bunny Ranch in Nevada, for whatever scant few of you that dont know, is a legal, privately funded, government controlled brothel. can you guess how many acts of violence or abuse have occured there? none. can you guess how many STD's the girls or patrons have? none. can you guess how many cases of HIV or AIDS come out of their establishment? ya, none. seeing a trend here?

back to my point tho, regulation and control. You say drugs are harmful not only to the users but to others and the community as a whole? alcohol and tobacco arent? no ones calling for their prohibition are they (well i guess a remote few are but i digress)? you know why? cuz we tried it with both and both were such monumental failures on the grandest scale that we conceded and said "ya, we fucked up, that was dumb, beer and cigs are back on!"


theres this overwhelming idea that those who are against prohibition of whatever just want that shit on every street corner and in your babies hands. if this is you, youre fucking stupid, go away. regulation and control. let the government regulate its production, potency, etc. then let them control it through law. feels like im beating a dead horse, but, this is what we did with alcohol and tobacco. if you cant see that, then there really isnt any hope for your dumbass

if we do not learn from history we are doomed to repeat it. doom youself, dont fucking drag me with you

>> ^shinyblurry:

God loves everyone, you included, and He does want you around. He doesn't create people He doesn't love. This video completely misses the point on both sides of the issue. The issue that God has with homosexuals is the same issue that He has with any human being. Every single one of us has sinned and have fallen short..and there is no one good, not one. I myself am personally disgusted by all of the prejudice that Christians show homosexuals. It is not what Christ taught, at all. Christ taught us to love one another, and to show that love always. If a Christian treats you like that, they are not following what He said.
>> ^FlowersInHisHair:
As a gay atheist, it doesn't matter a jot to me whether or not the desert god Yahweh "wants me around" or not.
I don't believe we were created by a god in the first place, and since it also supposedly created HIV, snakes, ebola, Uwe Boll, river blindness, periods, earthquakes and asbestos, I don't think an argument based on that god's idea of "good" and "bad" is built on solid ground. So while I appreciate what this guy's trying to do, this argument doesn't move me much.


I don't want to be impolite, because like the fellow in the video I think you mean well, so I'll just say "thanks, but no thanks".