>> ^kymbos:

@jimnms - link for your last para?
Meanwhile, I think you're missing the point: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/22/america-is-a-violent-coun
try/
Over to you and your next move: the 'data must be wrong' argument.


Here's your source, and it didn't come out of my ass like Bill's shit.

What point I'm missing? Your linked article doesn't mention guns anywhere, it shows that America is more violent than other advanced countries, which is even more of reason to carry a gun for self defense. I think you're the one missing the point.

Ninety percent of violent crimes are committed by persons not carrying handguns. This is one reason why the mere brandishing of a gun by a potential victim of violence often is a sufficient response to a would-be attacker. In most cases where a gun is used in self-defense, it is not fired. Can the average citizen be trusted to judge accurately when he or she is in jeopardy?...

A nationwide study by Don Kates, the constitutional lawyer and criminologist, found that only 2 percent of civilian shootings involved an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal. The 'error rate' for the police, however, was 11 percent, more than five times as high." [source]

Of course, it is not surprising that where there are more guns, there tends to be more gun-related deaths, but northern Latin America (Brazil in particular) breaks from this trend in a major way. The area has a massive homicide by firearm rate, with some of the lowest rates of gun ownership in the world and the highest homicides by firearm count...

Brazil, Columbia, Venezuela and Ecuador combine for more homicides by firearm than Mexico, the United States, South Africa, the Philippines, Honduras, Guatemala, India, El Salvador, Dominican Republic, Bangladesh, Argentina and Jamaica put together. That is every other country with over 1,000 homicides by firearm. You would imagine that gun control would be very lax in the area, but as the top chart here illustrates, that is not the case. Brazil, for example, has roughly 255 million fewer guns (and about 115 million fewer people) than the United States and a much more strict and effective set of firearm regulations. So, while it is true that where there are guns, there is gun violence, that is clearly not the only determining factor. [source]

4 more comments have been lost in the ether at this killed duplicate.

>> ^siftbot:

This video has been nominated as a duplicate of this video by Lurch. If this nomination is seconded with isdupe, the video will be killed and its votes transferred to the original.


*isdupe

Anyone else notice that the cars and much more pointedly, the handgun and the sound of the handgun are directly pulled from Bladerunner?

How unsurprising.

Here is a comment from reddit - http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/ribzs/zimmerman_shooter_of_treyvon_martin_on_police/c462epk

Yes. Martin's nickname was 'Slim'.

And Martin was only 100 feet from his father's house down the pathway between houses where he was killed by Zimmerman.

And Martin was on the phone with his girlfriend telling her he was scared that he was being chased by some strange man. And she told him to run home.

And the initial confrontation of Martin by Zimmerman was overheard by the girlfriend who heard Zimmerman demanding to know what Martin was doing.

Every new piece of evidence continues to paint Zimmerman as a liar:

[1] http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/19/2703029/us-department-of-justice-fbi-and.html#disqus_thread

"Zimmerman said he had stepped out of his truck to check the name of the street he was on when Trayvon attacked him from behind as he walked back to his truck, police said. He said he feared for his life and fired the semiautomatic handgun he was licensed to carry because he feared for his life."

There are no street signs at the spot where Zimmerman killed Martin - it's a pedestrian walkway between the backs of houses that leads to Martin's father's house

There are no signs of grave injury to Zimmerman like he claimed or any hospital trip

There are only three streets in the entire gated community. Zimmerman didn't need to get out of SUV to check which street he was on

He didn't get 'attacked' by Martin - the girlfriend heard Zimmerman approaching Martin demanding to know what he was doing

Zimmerman expects people to believe that this 17 year kid racing home to his father's house at night in the rain while being stalked by a 250 lb unknown adult armed with a handgun suddenly turned around and attacked Zimmerman savagely enough for the nutcase to shoot Martin and leave no obvious signs of serious injury on Zimmerman's body.

1. Yes, Randall should die. It's unfortunate, but by his own admission, he's already confirmed that the group he was with are not the most savory characters. He knows where the farm is and who Maggie and her family are. Plus, he knows that most of Rick's group are keen to kill him, which makes his motive for escape that much more enforced. At least his former group never tried to kill him. (We can't speculate here; only that facts that are presented to us, the audience) So he's definitely a liability to Rick's group.

2. Karl wants to prove himself. He's got two father figures telling him what to do, on top of a guarding mother. How should his parents approach the situation? Well...they haven't seen anything "wrong" yet, other than mouthing off to Carol. They don't know he stole Darrel's handgun, or confronted a zombie in the woods, etc. As for Karl wanting his Dad to shoot Randall, I'm sure Rick will have a sitdown and try to explain to him the logic behind his initial decision, and then the subsequent change of mind. Will he confess responsibility about the zombie? Tough call; if the writer's stick with the old Karl, he will. But Karl has changed (per his actions in this episode) and we never saw an apology to Carol. He could just shut down and harden up. Will the guilt get the better of him? I'd say yes, due to 1) he seems to have been brought up with a sense of justice and "doing the right thing" in part because of his father being a cop, and 2) at that age, when you screw up that bad, you don't just hide it away. He'll either confess, or confide in someone. I would have said he would have confided in Dale, but...well...you know....

3. Was it the right time to kill off Dale? Is it the right to ever kill of a character? Well, seeing as they've COMPLETELY strayed from the original Dale/Andrea story line in the original source material, I guess now is as good a time as any. My guess his Hershel will step up and take the mantel of the archetypal wise old man; it could give his character some redemption, if the writer's choose to go that route.
My immediate reaction to him dying was thinking "Well, Jeffrey DeMunn's off the show....I wonder what he'll do next with Frank Darabont..." Was his early death motivated by television politics....who knows. It seems to me that when you get an actor/director pairings, like DeMunn/Darabont, Russell/Carpenter, Depp/Burton, those tend to be pretty strong allegiances. I'm sure if there was some background gaffing over Darabont leaving the series, DeMunn was more than onboard with Darabont and wasn't surprised his character was killed off. I'll wait for the eventual news story/tell all book.

***Possible spoilers ahead if you haven't read the graphic novels***
As an aside, I'll cut back to season 1 for a moment, and what Jenner whispered to Rick before blowing up the CDC. I don't think he whispered some major secret to Rick; I have a feeling Jenner explained to Rick that "they" were the walking dead, and not the creatures outside. This is given in a huge, revelatory speech at the end of one of the books, don't remember which, after Rick breaks down from all the stress/guilt/death (that will eventually happen?). Seems a perfect fit into the storyline as they haven't mentioned it since the beginning of season 2 (when he's trying to reach Morgan on the radio). And I'm still waiting on Merle to show back up as the Governor.

Thanks for the thought out response MMD. Actually, my father and grandfather owned guns and kept them in the house. They were former marine and army, and definitely believed in the 2nd amendment. My father even gave me a rifle for a birthday as a child and taught me basic safety and maintenance.

But I never saw them use their guns in an emotional outburst to make some argumentative point. They had too much discipline for behavior like that. The guy in the video is clearly very angry and emotional (from the timbre in his voice) before and while using the gun.

As far as the legality of him doing what he was doing. From my experience, cops can make up a charge if they really want to, and maybe they (and child services) would at least bother the guy enough to make sure he thinks twice before brandishing a gun in this manner and putting it on youtube.

Yeah people shoot at things all the time, but a laptop? I know how they are assembled, and there are several layers of components that make up the machine, including many brittle materials that can easily shatter. Not to mention toxic materials like solder, etc. I doubt this guy has been taking laptops down to the quarry for target practice regularly enough to know how they take a hollow point.>> ^MilkmanDan:

>> ^longde:
Thinking about it more, what really bothers me about this video is the gratuitous use of the gun. To display that level of intimidation and violence in his home is one thing, but to broadcast it to other youth in his community is reckless.
One unintentional lesson that kids will take from this is that it's acceptable to wave a gun around and shoot off a few rounds to vent your anger and resolve a problem.
If I were a parent in this community, I would be making a few calls to the authorities.
And I'm the guy who supported belt whipping guy. I think gun guy is way worse than belt beating guy.
(also, how did this genius know that there would be no flying shrapnel from the components in the laptop?)

I fully understand and appreciate your concerns here, but once again I'm on the other side of the fence. Maybe just because I grew up on a farm in a rural area where a very high percentage of households owned at least one firearm and most kids in those homes were taught how to responsibly use a gun.
A lot of people think that there isn't really any justification for owning a gun outside of being a soldier or policeman, and that therefore the only way to practice being responsible with a gun is to simply never own or fire one. I would disagree, but if that is the mindset I'm not going to be able to convince anyone otherwise.
Anyway, I don't see his use of the gun as displaying any "intimidation" or "violence", so I don't have any problem with his posting the video on his daughter's facebook and/or youtube or whatever. By shooting the laptop, he wasn't telling his daughter "straighten up or next time its YOU!" (intimidation), he was telling her that actions have consequences and since the laptop is his property he can do whatever he wants with it -- including destroying it rather than have her feel like she is entitled to it.
There are plenty of freely available videos on the internet (even here on the sift, say) where people use firearms in genuinely reckless and irresponsible ways orders of magnitude beyond this one. And that is before considering ubiquitous reckless or malevolent use of firearms in fictional media like movies, etc.
If you were a parent in his community, you would be welcome to call and complain to the authorities, but they would tell you that he definitely didn't do anything against the law. So you'd pretty much be wasting your breath.
About the risk of flying shrapnel, I think that he "knows" that there wouldn't be any (or at least that the risk is acceptably minute) because he has used firearms before. Part of learning to use a gun responsibly (at least, how I would define responsibly) is shooting at things and seeing what happens to them. You shoot a BB gun at cans or bottles set up on posts. You shoot a rifle or handgun at targets at a shooting range or in a rural area with nothing in front of you. You shoot a shotgun at an empty 2-liter bottle thrown up in the air, or at clay pigeons.
While doing those things, you notice that whatever you are shooting at generally doesn't explode like it does in the movies. If any fragments fly off (not likely), they won't have much mass, they won't be traveling very fast (vastly slower than the bullet), and they will most likely be traveling in the same general direction as the bullet -- not back towards you. Physics dictates that his shooting the laptop was relatively safe, even at close range like that.

>> ^longde:

Thinking about it more, what really bothers me about this video is the gratuitous use of the gun. To display that level of intimidation and violence in his home is one thing, but to broadcast it to other youth in his community is reckless.
One unintentional lesson that kids will take from this is that it's acceptable to wave a gun around and shoot off a few rounds to vent your anger and resolve a problem.
If I were a parent in this community, I would be making a few calls to the authorities.
And I'm the guy who supported belt whipping guy. I think gun guy is way worse than belt beating guy.
(also, how did this genius know that there would be no flying shrapnel from the components in the laptop?)


I fully understand and appreciate your concerns here, but once again I'm on the other side of the fence. Maybe just because I grew up on a farm in a rural area where a very high percentage of households owned at least one firearm and most kids in those homes were taught how to responsibly use a gun.

A lot of people think that there isn't really any justification for owning a gun outside of being a soldier or policeman, and that therefore the only way to practice being responsible with a gun is to simply never own or fire one. I would disagree, but if that is the mindset I'm not going to be able to convince anyone otherwise.

Anyway, I don't see his use of the gun as displaying any "intimidation" or "violence", so I don't have any problem with his posting the video on his daughter's facebook and/or youtube or whatever. By shooting the laptop, he wasn't telling his daughter "straighten up or next time its YOU!" (intimidation), he was telling her that actions have consequences and since the laptop is his property he can do whatever he wants with it -- including destroying it rather than have her feel like she is entitled to it.

There are plenty of freely available videos on the internet (even here on the sift, say) where people use firearms in genuinely reckless and irresponsible ways orders of magnitude beyond this one. And that is before considering ubiquitous reckless or malevolent use of firearms in fictional media like movies, etc.

If you were a parent in his community, you would be welcome to call and complain to the authorities, but they would tell you that he definitely didn't do anything against the law. So you'd pretty much be wasting your breath.

About the risk of flying shrapnel, I think that he "knows" that there wouldn't be any (or at least that the risk is acceptably minute) because he has used firearms before. Part of learning to use a gun responsibly (at least, how I would define responsibly) is shooting at things and seeing what happens to them. You shoot a BB gun at cans or bottles set up on posts. You shoot a rifle or handgun at targets at a shooting range or in a rural area with nothing in front of you. You shoot a shotgun at an empty 2-liter bottle thrown up in the air, or at clay pigeons.

While doing those things, you notice that whatever you are shooting at generally doesn't explode like it does in the movies. If any fragments fly off (not likely), they won't have much mass, they won't be traveling very fast (vastly slower than the bullet), and they will most likely be traveling in the same general direction as the bullet -- not back towards you. Physics dictates that his shooting the laptop was relatively safe, even at close range like that.

But, yeah, you'll totally be able to fight off the government with your collection of handguns.

Whatever point you were making is lost in your juvenility.Try leaving out the personal insults next time, you might be saying something worth hearing.

>> ^Yogi:

>> ^Hive13:
>> ^Yogi:
So now just being on someones property means you will die instantly? Maybe we can mechanize this in some way...make sure that no living thing will EVER trespass again!
You're too stupid to understand the complexities of this world. Never ever ever join the military or a police force or even umpire little league you sad stupid man.

I served honorably in the Army for six years and received multiple commendations for exemplary service, am a licensed concealed handgun holder in Texas, do more community service in my area than you have probably dreamed of and am a father of four.
FYI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Doctrine
Thank you for basically nullifying any sort of argument you may have had in this "debate" and taking the low route to try and prove your point.

Ok here's something that unnullifies my point. My mother was raped and murdered while she was alone in our home when I was 3. I still believe that you cannot just decide someone is deserving of having no life immediately when they trespass or rob you and I do not agree with the Castle Doctrine the most insane piece of legislation since 3 strikes.
So again...Go Fuck Yourself and learn maybe ONE DAY that the world is Not black and white. There isn't a good and an evil, it's all gray.

Whether you agree with it or not is irrelephant. The law is what it is.
>> ^Yogi:

>> ^Hive13:
>> ^Yogi:
So now just being on someones property means you will die instantly? Maybe we can mechanize this in some way...make sure that no living thing will EVER trespass again!
You're too stupid to understand the complexities of this world. Never ever ever join the military or a police force or even umpire little league you sad stupid man.

I served honorably in the Army for six years and received multiple commendations for exemplary service, am a licensed concealed handgun holder in Texas, do more community service in my area than you have probably dreamed of and am a father of four.
FYI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Doctrine
Thank you for basically nullifying any sort of argument you may have had in this "debate" and taking the low route to try and prove your point.

Ok here's something that unnullifies my point. My mother was raped and murdered while she was alone in our home when I was 3. I still believe that you cannot just decide someone is deserving of having no life immediately when they trespass or rob you and I do not agree with the Castle Doctrine the most insane piece of legislation since 3 strikes.
So again...Go Fuck Yourself and learn maybe ONE DAY that the world is Not black and white. There isn't a good and an evil, it's all gray.

>> ^Hive13:

>> ^Yogi:
So now just being on someones property means you will die instantly? Maybe we can mechanize this in some way...make sure that no living thing will EVER trespass again!
You're too stupid to understand the complexities of this world. Never ever ever join the military or a police force or even umpire little league you sad stupid man.

I served honorably in the Army for six years and received multiple commendations for exemplary service, am a licensed concealed handgun holder in Texas, do more community service in my area than you have probably dreamed of and am a father of four.
FYI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Doctrine
Thank you for basically nullifying any sort of argument you may have had in this "debate" and taking the low route to try and prove your point.


Ok here's something that unnullifies my point. My mother was raped and murdered while she was alone in our home when I was 3. I still believe that you cannot just decide someone is deserving of having no life immediately when they trespass or rob you and I do not agree with the Castle Doctrine the most insane piece of legislation since 3 strikes.

So again...Go Fuck Yourself and learn maybe ONE DAY that the world is Not black and white. There isn't a good and an evil, it's all gray.

>> ^Yogi:

So now just being on someones property means you will die instantly? Maybe we can mechanize this in some way...make sure that no living thing will EVER trespass again!
You're too stupid to understand the complexities of this world. Never ever ever join the military or a police force or even umpire little league you sad stupid man.


I served honorably in the Army for six years and received multiple commendations for exemplary service, am a licensed concealed handgun holder in Texas, do more community service in my area than you have probably dreamed of and am a father of four.

FYI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Doctrine

Thank you for basically nullifying any sort of argument you may have had in this "debate" and taking the low route to try and prove your point.

I seriously thought you may have some connection to Hewlett Packard (stock symbol: HPQ)

In reply to this comment by hpqp:
1. One of my earliest memories is being on a boat between Japan and Korea during a sea storm. Rolling around in the room as the boat was rocked was terrible fun to the 3-year-old I was.

2. I been to more countries then I care to mention. People are really all the same all over. I hate big cities.

3. Played in a mine field for a whole afternoon. The next day a farmer died there. For the year we lived on Croatia's border we could hear/feel the bombs shake the house.

4. Am often told I do not act my gender. Sometimes I play it up on purpose.

5. Am not afraid of nor particularly moved by death. This causes me problems with my family when relatives/siblings die.

6. Am a pretty good shot with both ARs and handguns, even won a few medals in my teens. Stopped shooting because the atmosphere at the club was sexist/macho. At least I'm ready for the Zombie Apocalypse, and can take photos without a tripod at 1" exposure.

7. Like to use quotes from an opponent in a debate to attack their argument. Like to debate in general. i can be argumentative just for the sake of being contrary.

8. I dreamed of being multi-lingual as a child. I'm better at writing than talking. I was the first (and only) in my family to go to University.

9. Grew up in a fundie christian family. Read the Bible innumerable amount of times, learned verses and whole chapters by heart. Am now atheist and antitheist, like most of my family.

10. Been diagnosed schizoide, borderline, bipolar, etc. Take antidepressants to avoid incapacitating breakdowns.

11. 90% of my waking life has been spent procrastinating. VS is my latest fix, and the only online community I've ever become a part of.

12. I love dreaming. Most of my best memories are from my dreams. I daydream often, but retain full situational awareness. Lucid dreaming is awesome.

13. All of the major injuries I've sustained were self-inflicted, albeit by accident. Never broke a bone, but my body is always sore (and not always in a good way).

14. Originally left-handed, but forced to be right-handed during childhood because left-handedness is of the devil. Leftie is now my primary masturbation hand <img src="http://cdn.videosift.com/cdm/emoticon/xd3.gif" class="smiley" />

15. I watch porn at least once a week. Consider myself a feminist.

16. Grew up around boys. I don't really count my first time as my first time. Hardly any one I know knows about my first time.

17. Have never been in a successful relationship. Longest and most enjoyable was as someone's lover/fuckbuddy.

18. I have no patience for stupid people.

19. I've never even been tempted to try drugs, cigarettes. Stopped drinking before turning 18. I have little enough control of my brain and emotions as is.

20. I love cinema, I think cinema is humanity reflected, our dreams, desires, hopes, fears and experiences. When watching a movie, I am frequently the only person laughing.

21. I don't really like being the center of attention.

22. My profile name is not an acronym. When I started using the webs I wanted a username that was anonymous and meaningless to all but myself. It is supposed to be an obscurely emoticon-ish version of Robby the Robot from Forbidden Planet.

23. Forbidden Planet freaked me out when I first saw it as a kid. It is still one of my favourite sci-fi movies. I would like to write an SF novel, but fear I lack the discipline and talent.

24. Like to think I'm special/unique, but know that I'm not. Some of this list is copy-pasta'd from others' posts, but also applies for me. (can you find which parts? : )

25. I still have absolutely no clue what I want to do with my life.

1. One of my earliest memories is being on a boat between Japan and Korea during a sea storm. Rolling around in the room as the boat was rocked was terrible fun to the 3-year-old I was.

2. I been to more countries then I care to mention. People are really all the same all over. I hate big cities.

3. Played in a mine field for a whole afternoon. The next day a farmer died there. For the year we lived on Croatia's border we could hear/feel the bombs shake the house.

4. Am often told I do not act my gender. Sometimes I play it up on purpose.

5. Am not afraid of nor particularly moved by death. This causes me problems with my family when relatives/siblings die.

6. Am a pretty good shot with both ARs and handguns, even won a few medals in my teens. Stopped shooting because the atmosphere at the club was sexist/macho. At least I'm ready for the Zombie Apocalypse, and can take photos without a tripod at 1" exposure.

7. Like to use quotes from an opponent in a debate to attack their argument. Like to debate in general. i can be argumentative just for the sake of being contrary.

8. I dreamed of being multi-lingual as a child. I'm better at writing than talking. I was the first (and only) in my family to go to University.

9. Grew up in a fundie christian family. Read the Bible innumerable amount of times, learned verses and whole chapters by heart. Am now atheist and antitheist, like most of my family.

10. Been diagnosed schizoide, borderline, bipolar, etc. Take antidepressants to avoid incapacitating breakdowns.

11. 90% of my waking life has been spent procrastinating. VS is my latest fix, and the only online community I've ever become a part of.

12. I love dreaming. Most of my best memories are from my dreams. I daydream often, but retain full situational awareness. Lucid dreaming is awesome.

13. All of the major injuries I've sustained were self-inflicted, albeit by accident. Never broke a bone, but my body is always sore (and not always in a good way).

14. Originally left-handed, but forced to be right-handed during childhood because left-handedness is of the devil. Leftie is now my primary masturbation hand

15. I watch porn at least once a week. Consider myself a feminist.

16. Grew up around boys. I don't really count my first time as my first time. Hardly any one I know knows about my first time.

17. Have never been in a successful relationship. Longest and most enjoyable was as someone's lover/fuckbuddy.

18. I have no patience for stupid people.

19. I've never even been tempted to try drugs, cigarettes. Stopped drinking before turning 18. I have little enough control of my brain and emotions as is.

20. I love cinema, I think cinema is humanity reflected, our dreams, desires, hopes, fears and experiences. When watching a movie, I am frequently the only person laughing.

21. I don't really like being the center of attention.

22. My profile name is not an acronym. When I started using the webs I wanted a username that was anonymous and meaningless to all but myself. It is supposed to be an obscurely emoticon-ish version of Robby the Robot from Forbidden Planet.

23. Forbidden Planet freaked me out when I first saw it as a kid. It is still one of my favourite sci-fi movies. I would like to write an SF novel, but fear I lack the discipline and talent.

24. Like to think I'm special/unique, but know that I'm not. Some of this list is copy-pasta'd from others' posts, but also applies for me. (can you find which parts? )

25. I still have absolutely no clue what I want to do with my life.