by accident, @marinara?

How do you accidentally open fire on protestors?


This is an excellent article on the events:
New Kent State Video Evidence Points Towards FBI Provocateuring


The word “Guard!” can be heard around 11 seconds. “All right, prepare to fire” begins at around 20.5 seconds. “Get down!” is spoken at 23 seconds. The final “Guard!” is at about 25 seconds, and the gunshots begin at 27.5 seconds.


The order to fire directly contradicts claims from guard commanders who testified that there was no order to fire and that troops unloaded their weapons only after receiving incoming sniper fire.

The tape was given to Yale in 1979 for its Kent State archives by an attorney who represented students in a lawsuit filed against the state over the shooting. It was originally recorded by a student named Terry Strubbe who put a microphone at the window of his dorm, which overlooked the rally.

Subsequent analysis of the tape also uncovered an altercation and four pistol shots a little over one minute prior to the Guard gunfire. It is believed that the shots came from Terry Norman, who was at the time believed to have been an FBI informant.

Despite attempts by Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinich to pave the way for a new federal investigation, the evidence has remained largely ignored.

>> ^quantumushroom:

All too easy, Slapnuts.

Now deny it cause the stats don't come from SocialistWorker.org

>> ^ChaosEngine:
>> ^quantumushroom:
Drug use, rapes, murders and random deaths are in every camp, all the attendant chaos one would expect when socialists, anarchists, code pink commies and feed-the-flames libmedia descend anywhere. These protestors are not even 1% of the 99%.

Citation needed, motherfucker.



Idiots put all their links in an image, so you can't click on them and read the reports for yourself... hmm, I wonder why?? Oh, it's because there were no reported murders in the links! And no reported rapes in the links! Lesser events? Yes, a few. Completely unrelated events? Why, yes, several!

Here, for your reading pleasure, are all the links the right-wing crypto-fascist zombie airheads can come up with to marginalize the "dirty hippies" on the lawn:

Links originally from Pundit Press:

From Oregon Live: Primarily about a man who showed up at Occupy Portland, dismissed it as "an eyesore" and criticized its "lack of cohesion", and was arrested within days for starting fires. Also includes a few other accounts of minor drug posession, disorderly conduct, a weapons charge, and arrests of people for charges unrelated to the Occupy camp. Occupy Portland had a problem from near the beginning with homeless people joining the camp, and there were no services from the city or state to help them.

From Denver Post: A man who made an impassioned speech in favor of the Occupy Fort Collins camp was arrested as a suspect in an ENTIRELY UNRELATED arson charge.

From Gawker: A military veteran died of a self-inflicted gunshot, and the city used it as an excuse to halt all camping.

From Fox News: A "rash" of reports that consists of 1 accusation of sexual abuse and 1 accusation of sexual assault in Zuccotti park, 1 accusation of sex with a minor in Dallas, and 1 alleged sexual assault in Cleveland. Fox inflates this to "nearly a half-dozen" reports. The article also includes a number of unsubstantiated rumors of destructive behavior by Occupy protestors in various locations around the country.

From Komo News: A man accused of indecent exposure (completely unrelated to the Occupy movement) is arrested when spotted taking part in an Occupy Seattle protest.

From Redstate: Blantaly right-wing opinion piece which includes a number of links purportedly supporting the premise that the Occupy movement is full of criminals. The very first link is about the police entrapment on the Brooklyn Bridge. One of the links is the above piece from Komo News about an unrelated exposure charge. And another is about how Iran supports the Occupy movement (fear the boogeyman!).

From Reuters: This article is about the man shot by Berkeley police in a computer lab at UC Berkeley. No ties to the Occupy movement at all. But the Occupy protest was nearby, so it must be related, right???

From ABC News: A man is arrested for firing an assault rifle at the White House. He "may have spent time with Occupy D.C. protesters."

From The Daily Cardinal: Link broken; defaults to University of Wisconsin's Daily Cardinal homepage.

From New York Post: Article is about theives preying on the lack of security at the Occupy camp. Apparently all that police overtime is really helping...

So! All these articles, and they amount to... a few isolated issues that don't nearly account for all the numbers posted, and a couple of them are for unrelated charges where the person might have been caught in or near an Occupy event.

My overall analysis: Aside from QM being full of shit as usual, it's time to let the camps go. They made a splash, but now they are just being used as fodder for the right wing lie-machines. There are just too many unrelated crazies that come to the camps and interfere with the message. It's time to Occupy the polls, and put the energy into publicly supported legislation.

>> ^rgroom1:

FAKE FAKE FAKE
watch the stock of the gun during the misfire: it inexplicably becomes an inch wider while the barrel that was pointed at his face turns away.

And the gunshot sound ends abruptly instead of carrying like the previous shots.

New information, pieced together from a couple of sketchy on-line stories:

1. Husband wanted to buy a gun like he already owned.
2. Brought his 9 mm pistol to the store.
3. Was handling the gun when it discharged.
4. Police state categorically that the gunshot was "not self-inflicted."

>> ^marbles:

>> ^bareboards2:
I am backing out of this. Internet speculation. That link you provided? Witnesses say they saw a muzzle flash, but one man says he didn't. The shooting site was overrun by bystanders and completely contaminated, evidence has gone missing, stolen from the site.
We may never know the truth.
Except we do know that young black men running away from "stealing" a ride on the bus are NOT shot every day.
I wish you had a relative who worked as a public safety officer, marbles. I wish someone you loved risked their life on a daily basis doing their job. Because I think you would talk differently if it was your brother or your son or your sister chasing after a man firing a gun at them.
Anyway. I'm done with this. You are going to believe what you want. Not even a moment of doubt that that man was shooting while running? No room for that possibility? Just hatred and fear because they wear a badge. I got no time or energy fighting your hatred and fear.
I wish you well.

WTF is internet speculation? So what do you call parroting the police? The Police Chief said there were witnesses that saw a muzzle flash. Who is the Police Chief talking about? THE TWO COPS THAT SHOT THE KID! So where's the gun? There were several witnesses that said the kid didn't have a gun. The shooting site wasn't overrun by bystanders, and any contamination or theft was the willingness of the police to let it happen. And who's going to steal bullet casings? You have clear video of the scene right here immediately after it happened and yet you blindly defend the police.
You're backing out of it because you have no reason to believe what you believe other than your misguided and narrow-minded convictions that leave no room for rational thought. And you actually mock Christians for their beliefs?
Using your line of reasoning I should be telling you I wish you had a relative that was unjustly gun downed by a public safety officer, bareboards2. I think you would talk differently (WTF?) if it was your brother or your son or your sister murdered by the police.
Hatred and fear because they wear a badge? You don't have a fuckin clue what you're talking about. I have friends that are local cops, deputies, and in the military. That doesn't mean I'm a fuckin government sycophant. I believe in the rule of law, not the rule of government.
Do you have any rational arguments?
When I first posted the video, I took the original submitter at face value. There was no gun and MANY first handed witnesses in the video. I searched for a news article to get the latest on the story and found out Harding apparently had gunshot residue on his hands. So my next thought was that maybe he ditched the gun while fleeing. The quote I posted (in the first comment here) didn't make much sense, but I still thought it was plausible if he ditched his gun.
But that doesn't match up to what the police claimed happened. They claimed he shot 1 time, they returned fire shot 9 times, all in a matter of 6 seconds. So where's the gun? They didn't secure the gun? That's the first thing the cop would've done. Where's the bullet casings? Oh yeah, they mysteriously disappeared too.
And furthermore the story they concocted about a guy picking up the gun and running off and then somehow they magically find the gun later at some other anonymous parolee's house? That's complete bullshit. That alone should tell you they're covering it up.
Yeah, we may never know the truth. Just don't let that get in the way of believing your pack of lies.


the site wasnt overrun by bystanders? were you watching the fucking same video?!

anyway, the crux of it is this. in your own words, we have a video of the scene right after. and youre right. thats all it fucking is. the aftermath. no context. no lead in. just aftermath. and you are so quick to demonize the officers. with nothing but aftermath to go on. no context. no evidence. just speculation and aftermath. so in what damn way is that any different than what you are accusing (laughably i might add) bareboards of?

you say you believe in the rule of law and yet you are lynching (at least verbally) every cop on that scene. and based on what? some very early reports, a handful of conflicting eye witness accounts, and a video that literally has zero context. rule of law my fucking ass.

i can see both sides of this, and frankly, its plausible either way. but until i have all the evidence, i cannot intelligently make any kind of conclusion. oh but not you, you who has that 6th sense about these things. Those cops totally did it! i mean look at em! they look like dirty cops. and everyone knows cops are corrupt and theyre all part of political propaganda coverups. someone get a rope!

National Justice Institute
In 2005, 11,346 persons were killed by firearm violence and 477,040 persons were victims of a crime committed with a firearm. Most murders in the United States are committed with firearms, especially handguns. In 2006, firearms were used in 68 percent of murders, 42 percent of robbery offenses and 22 percent of aggravated assaults nationwide.

The statistics show that firearms are the murder and suicide implement of choice in the United States as firearms are used in 2 out of every 3 homicides and half of all suicides.
http://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/gun-violence/
http://www.americanfirearms.org/statistics.php#8

Firearms made the top 10 leading causes of death list in the US.
http://www.americanfirearms.org/images/Chart__big.gif

Murders with firearms (per capita)
United States is #8 in the world

Murders with firearms (total)
United States is #4 in the world

If you had a choice would you rather be stabbed or shot?
The mortality rate for gunshot wounds to the heart is 84%, compared to 30% for people who sustain stab wounds to the heart.
http://www.journalacs.org/article/S1072-7515(97)00144-0/abstract
*edit: The brackets break the link so please copy and paste if you care


I am a Canadian who owns guns and I do NOT support the federal gun registry as it does nothing to prevent crime or protect citizens.
However I do support the proper licensing, secure storage, and transport of firearms. I believe that some level of gun control is required but the majority of issues can be addressed through proper firearm education.
>> ^blankfist:

>> ^PalmliX:
>> ^blankfist:
Not sure why people are so incensed by people carrying guns.

No? No idea? How about fear of death? I live in Canada and if me or anyone I knew saw a civilian walking around with a gun we would call the police immediately. Doesn't really matter if they have no 'ill intent', they're walking around with a weapon that can kill someone in the blink of an eye. There's no use for a gun other than killing. Like someone said earlier, this isn't the wild west, have some common sense and at the very least it should be concealed with the proper permits.

I don't think this guy lives in Canada. He lives in the US and in a place where open carry is legal. Some of us don't give in to fear. Sure a gun can kill someone in a blink of an eye, but so can a car or a steak knife. Should we ban roads and steak restaurants?

@GenjiKilpatrick

The other video clearly shows the guy picking up a cell phone (not a gun) and audibly says "phone" while he's pointing at it to the videographer.

Initially the police implied Harding was firing indiscriminately at the officers while fleeing. Then the story changes when they realize they have to go by what the gunshot detection system said. But somehow they can't find the gun. I guess it's better to be charged incompetent, than to be charged with murder.

The officers clearly contaminate the suspect when they rolled him over. (Gunshot residue)

And the gun they found later is a different size caliber than the one used in the Seattle murder, yet the police chief says they'll have to wait for ballistics to see if the gun matches the murder weapon. Pure political propaganda.

This is a top to bottom cover up. I'd like to think that maybe one of the cops just got anxious and shot at Harding's general direction (not necessarily at him) and then other cop freaks and starts shooting at Harding in the back, killing him. But who knows how it went down. What we do know is there was no other gun at the scene.

>> ^bareboards2:

I said I was backing out.
TL, DR.
Enjoy your outrage.
>> ^marbles:
>> ^bareboards2:
I am backing out of this. Internet speculation. That link you provided? Witnesses say they saw a muzzle flash, but one man says he didn't. The shooting site was overrun by bystanders and completely contaminated, evidence has gone missing, stolen from the site.
We may never know the truth.
Except we do know that young black men running away from "stealing" a ride on the bus are NOT shot every day.
I wish you had a relative who worked as a public safety officer, marbles. I wish someone you loved risked their life on a daily basis doing their job. Because I think you would talk differently if it was your brother or your son or your sister chasing after a man firing a gun at them.
Anyway. I'm done with this. You are going to believe what you want. Not even a moment of doubt that that man was shooting while running? No room for that possibility? Just hatred and fear because they wear a badge. I got no time or energy fighting your hatred and fear.
I wish you well.

WTF is internet speculation? So what do you call parroting the police? The Police Chief said there were witnesses that saw a muzzle flash. Who is the Police Chief talking about? THE TWO COPS THAT SHOT THE KID! So where's the gun? There were several witnesses that said the kid didn't have a gun. The shooting site wasn't overrun by bystanders, and any contamination or theft was the willingness of the police to let it happen. And who's going to steal bullet casings? You have clear video of the scene right here immediately after it happened and yet you blindly defend the police.
You're backing out of it because you have no reason to believe what you believe other than your misguided and narrow-minded convictions that leave no room for rational thought. And you actually mock Christians for their beliefs?
Using your line of reasoning I should be telling you I wish you had a relative that was unjustly gun downed by a public safety officer, bareboards2. I think you would talk differently (WTF?) if it was your brother or your son or your sister murdered by the police.
Hatred and fear because they wear a badge? You don't have a fuckin clue what you're talking about. I have friends that are local cops, deputies, and in the military. That doesn't mean I'm a fuckin government sycophant. I believe in the rule of law, not the rule of government.
Do you have any rational arguments?
When I first posted the video, I took the original submitter at face value. There was no gun and MANY first handed witnesses in the video. I searched for a news article to get the latest on the story and found out Harding apparently had gunshot residue on his hands. So my next thought was that maybe he ditched the gun while fleeing. The quote I posted (in the first comment here) didn't make much sense, but I still thought it was plausible if he ditched his gun.
But that doesn't match up to what the police claimed happened. They claimed he shot 1 time, they returned fire shot 9 times, all in a matter of 6 seconds. So where's the gun? They didn't secure the gun? That's the first thing the cop would've done. Where's the bullet casings? Oh yeah, they mysteriously disappeared too.
And furthermore the story they concocted about a guy picking up the gun and running off and then somehow they magically find the gun later at some other anonymous parolee's house? That's complete bullshit. That alone should tell you they're covering it up.
Yeah, we may never know the truth. Just don't let that get in the way of believing your pack of lies.



Wow. Vile statist also lacks maturity. Who knew?

I said I was backing out.

TL, DR.

Enjoy your outrage.

>> ^marbles:

>> ^bareboards2:
I am backing out of this. Internet speculation. That link you provided? Witnesses say they saw a muzzle flash, but one man says he didn't. The shooting site was overrun by bystanders and completely contaminated, evidence has gone missing, stolen from the site.
We may never know the truth.
Except we do know that young black men running away from "stealing" a ride on the bus are NOT shot every day.
I wish you had a relative who worked as a public safety officer, marbles. I wish someone you loved risked their life on a daily basis doing their job. Because I think you would talk differently if it was your brother or your son or your sister chasing after a man firing a gun at them.
Anyway. I'm done with this. You are going to believe what you want. Not even a moment of doubt that that man was shooting while running? No room for that possibility? Just hatred and fear because they wear a badge. I got no time or energy fighting your hatred and fear.
I wish you well.

WTF is internet speculation? So what do you call parroting the police? The Police Chief said there were witnesses that saw a muzzle flash. Who is the Police Chief talking about? THE TWO COPS THAT SHOT THE KID! So where's the gun? There were several witnesses that said the kid didn't have a gun. The shooting site wasn't overrun by bystanders, and any contamination or theft was the willingness of the police to let it happen. And who's going to steal bullet casings? You have clear video of the scene right here immediately after it happened and yet you blindly defend the police.
You're backing out of it because you have no reason to believe what you believe other than your misguided and narrow-minded convictions that leave no room for rational thought. And you actually mock Christians for their beliefs?
Using your line of reasoning I should be telling you I wish you had a relative that was unjustly gun downed by a public safety officer, bareboards2. I think you would talk differently (WTF?) if it was your brother or your son or your sister murdered by the police.
Hatred and fear because they wear a badge? You don't have a fuckin clue what you're talking about. I have friends that are local cops, deputies, and in the military. That doesn't mean I'm a fuckin government sycophant. I believe in the rule of law, not the rule of government.
Do you have any rational arguments?
When I first posted the video, I took the original submitter at face value. There was no gun and MANY first handed witnesses in the video. I searched for a news article to get the latest on the story and found out Harding apparently had gunshot residue on his hands. So my next thought was that maybe he ditched the gun while fleeing. The quote I posted (in the first comment here) didn't make much sense, but I still thought it was plausible if he ditched his gun.
But that doesn't match up to what the police claimed happened. They claimed he shot 1 time, they returned fire shot 9 times, all in a matter of 6 seconds. So where's the gun? They didn't secure the gun? That's the first thing the cop would've done. Where's the bullet casings? Oh yeah, they mysteriously disappeared too.
And furthermore the story they concocted about a guy picking up the gun and running off and then somehow they magically find the gun later at some other anonymous parolee's house? That's complete bullshit. That alone should tell you they're covering it up.
Yeah, we may never know the truth. Just don't let that get in the way of believing your pack of lies.

>> ^bareboards2:

I am backing out of this. Internet speculation. That link you provided? Witnesses say they saw a muzzle flash, but one man says he didn't. The shooting site was overrun by bystanders and completely contaminated, evidence has gone missing, stolen from the site.
We may never know the truth.
Except we do know that young black men running away from "stealing" a ride on the bus are NOT shot every day.
I wish you had a relative who worked as a public safety officer, marbles. I wish someone you loved risked their life on a daily basis doing their job. Because I think you would talk differently if it was your brother or your son or your sister chasing after a man firing a gun at them.
Anyway. I'm done with this. You are going to believe what you want. Not even a moment of doubt that that man was shooting while running? No room for that possibility? Just hatred and fear because they wear a badge. I got no time or energy fighting your hatred and fear.
I wish you well.


WTF is internet speculation? So what do you call parroting the police? The Police Chief said there were witnesses that saw a muzzle flash. Who is the Police Chief talking about? THE TWO COPS THAT SHOT THE KID! So where's the gun? There were several witnesses that said the kid didn't have a gun. The shooting site wasn't overrun by bystanders, and any contamination or theft was the willingness of the police to let it happen. And who's going to steal bullet casings? You have clear video of the scene right here immediately after it happened and yet you blindly defend the police.
You're backing out of it because you have no reason to believe what you believe other than your misguided and narrow-minded convictions that leave no room for rational thought. And you actually mock Christians for their beliefs?

Using your line of reasoning I should be telling you I wish you had a relative that was unjustly gun downed by a public safety officer, bareboards2. I think you would talk differently (WTF?) if it was your brother or your son or your sister murdered by the police.

Hatred and fear because they wear a badge? You don't have a fuckin clue what you're talking about. I have friends that are local cops, deputies, and in the military. That doesn't mean I'm a fuckin government sycophant. I believe in the rule of law, not the rule of government.

Do you have any rational arguments?

When I first posted the video, I took the original submitter at face value. There was no gun and MANY first handed witnesses in the video. I searched for a news article to get the latest on the story and found out Harding apparently had gunshot residue on his hands. So my next thought was that maybe he ditched the gun while fleeing. The quote I posted (in the first comment here) didn't make much sense, but I still thought it was plausible if he ditched his gun.
But that doesn't match up to what the police claimed happened. They claimed he shot 1 time, they returned fire shot 9 times, all in a matter of 6 seconds. So where's the gun? They didn't secure the gun? That's the first thing the cop would've done. Where's the bullet casings? Oh yeah, they mysteriously disappeared too.
And furthermore the story they concocted about a guy picking up the gun and running off and then somehow they magically find the gun later at some other anonymous parolee's house? That's complete bullshit. That alone should tell you they're covering it up.

Yeah, we may never know the truth. Just don't let that get in the way of believing your pack of lies.

>> ^marinara:

found gunshot residue on his hand, also gunshot detection system supports the police story.
fix the description too


Gunshot residue is hardly science. The police officer that rolled him over could've contaminated his hands, one of the shooters could've purposely contaminated his hands with his own, Harding could've been shot at close range with his hands up, or Harding could've previously shot a gun earlier in the day.

The gunshot detection system actually proves the police story is bunk. The guy fires at them, they shoot him down 2 seconds later and they can't find a gun?

found gunshot residue on his hand, also gunshot detection system supports the police story.
fix the description too

Police: Gunshot residue found on slain man's hand:

"Police did not find a gun at the scene near Third Street and Oakdale Avenue, but an online video taken just after Harding was shot showed what appeared to be a gun on the ground. Police later found what they believe was the gun, a .45-caliber pistol, at the home of a parolee in the Bayview."

???

How is this anything like Sherlock Holmes?! What fucking detective work and observational analysis is being done amongst these explosions, gunshots, and cross dressing!??!

I like how the 3rd robber can apparently hear the difference between a missed gunshot and the one that drops robber #2.